Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

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You are a fan of him. Do you seriously believe signing for Movistar will increase his chances of winning a big race next year compared to DQS?
It's a good question. One thing I have always enjoyed about him is how he has always been the undisputed captain and put on a show every day.

And incidents like MSR 2012 and SB 2013 still annoy me and would become much more frequent if he rode for DQS, and that would be much more frustrating (for me) than if he was just beaten fair and square. But it's a moot discussion anyway as he has no intention of riding for that team (okay, now I start to sound like Koronin).

But yes, I do realise I mostly focus on the down-side here and not so much the potential upside... I just don't think he would suddenly be winning left, right and centre if he were to ride for DQS as everybody else seems to think.
 
I guess the good thing if Sagan moved to Movistar would be that he is old and experienced enough to know what's good for him, what works and what doesn't - because Movistar seem to rely on that extremely. You don't seem to get that much scientific up-to-date knowledge there, more "we will see what works, here's your mentor (Alejandro), with time you will learn..." For Sagan that could work. Still, that team is pretty much a disaster to me at the moment, I wouldn't want my favourite rider there.
Of course there's no winning garantie at QS, you don't get amazing just because you are there. But if I had to choose one team, I would go there, I would even endure PL, because to me it seems the most professional one apart from those Dutch/German tyrants.

What does Sagan need at the moment? I think he needs a team where he can pick his moments and prepare properly for his major goals. Enough rest in between.
To be fair Bora did a very good job for him at last year's Tour, they were devoted to him - of course helped a lot by Buchmann's crash/form. Now he gets good support at the Giro again, it's not like that is a team just for Buchmann and Sagan is completely on his own. In the Tour, with neither Schachmann nor Buchmann doing it and maybe Ackermann neither he will again be a/the centrepiece.

So leaving Bora would probably be about the money or long-term perspectives.
 
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But yes, I do realise I mostly focus on the down-side here and not so much the potential upside... I just don't think he would suddenly be winning left, right and centre if he were to ride for DQS as everybody else seems to think.
I don't think he'd be winning left, right, and centre.

But we probably all thought the same about Gilbert when he signed, especially after some quiet years with BMC. And he went and won Flanders and Roubaix.

At this stage in his career, it's not about quantity of wins for Sagan, really. It has to be about quality; winning Gent Wevelgem again, or another Canadian classic, or stages at Suisse or Catalunya, or even a green jersey, won't add much to his Palmares. But 2 monuments seems a low return for his talents, and no MSR is a bit of a gap.
 
It's crazy Sagan only won RVV and Roubaix once (like Niki Terpstra, for instance).

Sagan riding for Movistar seems like an awful fit. With his current level, it is hardly unlikely he scores a big Classic in a head to head with VDP or WVA riding for a smaller team. I would love to see him ride for Deceuninck. Don't know if he would be able to add another monument to his tally, but i'm certain he would add some nice wins in classics with the "Wolfpack" approach. He would also have a nice shot at San Remo.
 
I can see why people are pushing for Sagan in DQ. I don't know why, but it'd be such a strange feeling for me if that happens. It just wouldn't feel right. All his career he's been fighting against DQ in the classics and sprints. Apart from GVA and Cancellara earlier in his career, the riders from that team were always his biggest opponent. It'd be like Contador joining Sky after ending his contract with Tinkoff.

In my opinion it all depends what level he can reach in the next years. If his best going forward indeed reaches the level of riders like Senechal and Lampaert (I don't want to diminish their abilities by any means, both very good riders, but Sagan is on another level). Maybe choosing DQ wouldn't be that bad of a decision. But because I think he is not over the hill at all, and believe he can still reach an impressive peak even by his standards, there should be better options. IMO he needs a team with enough support, but also with a strong #2 guy, who can be important in some tactical games. Ignoring salaries and sponsor's implications, someone like BikeExchange with Matthews would be good, Bahrain with Colbrelli/Theuns, Trek with Pedersen/Stuyven, EF with Bettiol, ISN with Vanmarcke.
 
But has he completely done with green jersey hunger, or being the main sprinter in a team, or at least not being the downright second or third sprinter? It might mean nothing to us anymore, but how about it to him?
 
Don't forget that Patxi Vila is now the one in charge of the performance team and coaching at Movistar. He and Sagan go back and Sagan brought him to Bora initially from Tinkoff. And Sylwester Szmyd could also be part of the package as he is Sagans coach and they are old friends beyond that.

The complicated matter would probably be bike sponsors. Specialized will want to hold onto Sagan. If Sagan doesn't want to go to DQS or DQS doesn't want Sagan and he indeed is going to Movistar there would be the need for a decision. Don't think Movistar would reject the idea of Specialized sponsoring them. And Canyon, being german, would be a good fit for Bora. But do Bora want to change from Specialized? Or onto Canyon? Maybe Canyon want to have Sagan badly on their bikes?
Lots of questions.
 
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Don't forget that Patxi Vila is now the one in charge of the performance team and coaching at Movistar. He and Sagan go back and Sagan brought him to Bora initially from Tinkoff. And Sylwester Szmyd could also be part of the package as he is Sagans coach and they are old friends beyond that.

The complicated matter would probably be bike sponsors. Specialized will want to hold onto Sagan. If Sagan doesn't want to go to DQS or DQS doesn't want Sagan and he indeed is going to Movistar there would be the need for a decision. Don't think Movistar would reject the idea of Specialized sponsoring them. And Canyon, being german, would be a good fit for Bora. But do Bora want to change from Specialized? Or onto Canyon? Maybe Canyon want to have Sagan badly on their bikes?
Lots of questions.
Canyon already have Van der Poel, so they would probably not be as keen to get Sagan on board as to pay his wages.
 
Nov 20, 2018
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I don't think he'd be winning left, right, and centre.

But we probably all thought the same about Gilbert when he signed, especially after some quiet years with BMC. And he went and won Flanders and Roubaix.

At this stage in his career, it's not about quantity of wins for Sagan, really. It has to be about quality; winning Gent Wevelgem again, or another Canadian classic, or stages at Suisse or Catalunya, or even a green jersey, won't add much to his Palmares. But 2 monuments seems a low return for his talents, and no MSR is a bit of a gap.
I was thinking about which result would improve his palmares the most and my (very personal) list is as follows:

  1. WC RR (in fact any medal)
  2. OG RR
  3. Gent Wevelgem
  4. Strade Bianche
  5. Any monument ( MSR being the least valuable)
From this point of view Movistar (i.e., Patxi Vila) seems to be the best choice.
 
I was thinking about which result would improve his palmares the most and my (very personal) list is as follows:

  1. WC RR (in fact any medal)
  2. OG RR
  3. Gent Wevelgem
  4. Strade Bianche
  5. Any monument ( MSR being the least valuable)
From this point of view Movistar (i.e., Patxi Vila) seems to be the best choice.
If I had to make a top 5 I would agree with some choices but your devaluation of MSR feels really weird to me. It's such a glaring omission from his palmares at the moment. Much more so than Strade Bianchi imo because he is not necessarily expected to win that one. So I assume you simply value Strade over MSR?

Gent-Wevelgem is only included because of him getting the record, right? Then I find it odd that you are fine with him just taking any medal at the WC RR. Because taking another medal there would not give him any record (just look at how many medals Valverde has). Only a win would.

Imo the Gent-Wevelgem record is not that big either because while the race is important it is not on the level of monuments.
 
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