Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

[boneshaker]

Sagan get pitiful help in Bora anyway in the classics

They helped him to win GW an PR

 

[boneshaker]

I don't think he'd be winning left, right, and centre.

But we probably all thought the same about Gilbert when he signed, especially after some quiet years with BMC. And he went and won Flanders and Roubaix.

At this stage in his career, it's not about quantity of wins for Sagan, really. It has to be about quality; winning Gent Wevelgem again, or another Canadian classic, or stages at Suisse or Catalunya, or even a green jersey, won't add much to his Palmares. But 2 monuments seems a low return for his talents, and no MSR is a bit of a gap.

I was thinking about which result would improve his palmares the most and my (very personal) list is as follows:

1. WC RR (in fact any medal)
2. OG RR
3. Gent Wevelgem
4. Strade Bianche
5. Any monument ( MSR being the least valuable)

From this point of view Movistar (i.e., Patxi Vila) seems to be the best choice.

 

[johnymax]

I was thinking about which result would improve his palmares the most and my (very personal) list is as follows:

1. WC RR (in fact any medal)
2. OG RR
3. Gent Wevelgem
4. Strade Bianche
5. Any monument ( MSR being the least valuable)

From this point of view Movistar (i.e., Patxi Vila) seems to be the best choice.

1. MSR

 

[jmdirt]

WOOHOO PS! Nice little finish there!

 

[Panda Claws]

I was thinking about which result would improve his palmares the most and my (very personal) list is as follows:

1. WC RR (in fact any medal)
2. OG RR
3. Gent Wevelgem
4. Strade Bianche
5. Any monument ( MSR being the least valuable)

From this point of view Movistar (i.e., Patxi Vila) seems to be the best choice.

If I had to make a top 5 I would agree with some choices but your devaluation of MSR feels really weird to me. It's such a glaring omission from his palmares at the moment. Much more so than Strade Bianchi imo because he is not necessarily expected to win that one. So I assume you simply value Strade over MSR?

Gent-Wevelgem is only included because of him getting the record, right? Then I find it odd that you are fine with him just taking any medal at the WC RR. Because taking another medal there would not give him any record (just look at how many medals Valverde has). Only a win would.

Imo the Gent-Wevelgem record is not that big either because while the race is important it is not on the level of monuments.

 

[tobydawq]

If I had to make a top 5 I would agree with some choices but your devaluation of MSR feels really weird to me. It's such a glaring omission from his palmares at the moment. Much more so than Strade Bianchi imo because he is not necessarily expected to win that one. So I assume you simply value Strade over MSR?

Gent-Wevelgem is only included because of him getting the record, right? Then I find it odd that you are fine with him just taking any medal at the WC RR. Because taking another medal there would not give him any record (just look at how many medals Valverde has). Only a win would.

Imo the Gent-Wevelgem record is not that big either because while the race is important it is not on the level of monuments.

The list was so random I didn't think it merited a response.

 

[spalco]

I was thinking about which result would improve his palmares the most and my (very personal) list is as follows:

1. WC RR (in fact any medal)
2. OG RR
3. Gent Wevelgem
4. Strade Bianche
5. Any monument ( MSR being the least valuable)

From this point of view Movistar (i.e., Patxi Vila) seems to be the best choice.

imo:

1. MSR (by far!)
2. Another Flanders/Roubaix/WC
3. More stages in all GTs
4. Points jersey in Giro and Vuelta (tough call probably)
5. ORR would by fantastic, but it's such a gamble it would only be a bonus

 

[Oldermanish]

imo:

1. MSR (by far!)
2. Another Flanders/Roubaix/WC
3. More stages in all GTs
4. Points jersey in Giro and Vuelta (tough call probably)
5. ORR would by fantastic, but it's such a gamble it would only be a bonus

Numero quatro looking attainable today......

 

[spalco]

Numero quatro looking attainable today......

Yes, the ciclamino is important and looking good, but he doesn't have the points jersey from the Vuelta either, right?

 

[boneshaker]

If I had to make a top 5 I would agree with some choices but your devaluation of MSR feels really weird to me. It's such a glaring omission from his palmares at the moment. Much more so than Strade Bianchi imo because he is not necessarily expected to win that one. So I assume you simply value Strade over MSR?

Gent-Wevelgem is only included because of him getting the record, right? Then I find it odd that you are fine with him just taking any medal at the WC RR. Because taking another medal there would not give him any record (just look at how many medals Valverde has). Only a win would.

Imo the Gent-Wevelgem record is not that big either because while the race is important it is not on the level of monuments.

It is not about value of races, althought I think that MSR is the least valuable from the monuments. I just feel that if he win MSR in the future, the general reaction will be "Finally. Now, let's talk about his chances at RVV an PR".

Yes, GW is for the record. WCRR too. My reasoning is that, IIRC, other 3 times world champions have an additional bronze.

 

[tomorrow]

Peter Sagan fined for 'intimidation' in Giro d'Italia stage 18

Bora-Hansgrohe rider docked UCI points and 1000 Swiss Frances but not penalized with ciclamino jersey points

www.cyclingnews.com

WTF? Sagan fined and penaltied for what is happening in the begining of every bike race? Has he done something out of the normal?

 

[glassmoon]

Peter Sagan fined for 'intimidation' in Giro d'Italia stage 18

Bora-Hansgrohe rider docked UCI points and 1000 Swiss Frances but not penalized with ciclamino jersey points

www.cyclingnews.com

WTF? Sagan fined and penaltied for what is happening in the begining of every bike race? Has he done something out of the normal?

from Slovak news portal: blocking (dangerously?) other riders trying to get in the breakaways + some lame-ass bully wannabe words maybe? he might tried to be a cocky or joking but he's not the sharpest tool in the box "speech wise".
so who knows... but i don't think the penalty is based solely on the riders' complaints so refs might have actually seen something (at least i hope so for the sake of UCI which is as consistent as my gf's "moods")

 

[tomorrow]

from Slovak news portal: blocking (dangerously?) other riders trying to get in the breakaways + some lame-ass bully wannabe words maybe? he might tried to be a cocky or joking but he's not the sharpest tool in the box "speech wise".
so who knows... but i don't think the penalty is based solely on the riders' complaints so refs might have actually seen something (at least i hope so for the sake of UCI which is as consistent as my gf's "moods")

i've read it originally in slovak papers, but the explanation were more of a guess or to vague, that's why I asked if somebody noticed something in the tv, cause I've only seen normal trying to fill road with bora and ineos and one handwave over guys, who sudenly woke up and wanted to chase the breake wich was already 25s up front.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Lets intimidate some more!

 

[Panda Claws]

I Often wonder how much Hidden Diplomacy and intimidation goes on in the peloton and how much that shapes the race.

E.g. Imagine Bernal having sent to Martinez over to Almeida to talk about how much of a wanker Evenepoel is in order to sow discord lol.

 

[jmdirt]

Peter Sagan fined for 'intimidation' in Giro d'Italia stage 18

Bora-Hansgrohe rider docked UCI points and 1000 Swiss Frances but not penalized with ciclamino jersey points

www.cyclingnews.com

WTF? Sagan fined and penaltied for what is happening in the begining of every bike race? Has he done something out of the normal?

I'd like a little more info too.

 

[Bonimenier]

Peter Sagan fined for 'intimidation' in Giro d'Italia stage 18

Bora-Hansgrohe rider docked UCI points and 1000 Swiss Frances but not penalized with ciclamino jersey points

www.cyclingnews.com

WTF? Sagan fined and penaltied for what is happening in the begining of every bike race? Has he done something out of the normal?

I guess it's not unlikely that he's done something out of the normal. It wouldn't be the first time he's done something that's just over the line of acceptability.

 

[luckyboy]

So Total Direct Energie along with Oss, Juraj, Baska, Bodnar and 7 backroom staff as well lol..

No wonder DQS don't want him when he brings so many staff and some mediocre riders with him.
All of that plus huge wages for a guy who can't win against the best in bunch sprints anymore and didn't win a Classic in 3 years..

 

[Ktarie]

No wonder DQS don't want him when he brings so many staff and some mediocre riders with him.
All of that plus huge wages for a guy who can't win against the best in bunch sprints anymore and didn't win a Classic in 3 years..

Ja, that's kinda what "Radio Lefevre" commented on the case Sagan_to_ DQS today as well. According to him, Sagan's manager would have only been willing to take Sagan + 8 with him if it would have matched a supplement with DQS. However, another team was apparently ready to take them all (Sagan + 11). Lefevre concluded with the thought that he was really looking forward to working with Sagan, but that he had slowed down at the same time because he didn't want a team inside the team, which doesn't fit the philosophy of the wolf pack at all.

 

[Red Rick]

I would say this also puts Nibali to DQS in some more question

 

[Andy262]

To be fair, I never saw Sagan as a top tier sprinter, there have always been 4-5 better than him. He's always been more of an opportunist, best on long hard stages with a bit of up and down or uphill sprints.

As for the lack of monuments it's certainly not helping that there hasn't been a Roubaix for over 2 years, and he didn't have a great prep for MSR this year and did ok considering. MSR is the gaping hole on his CV obviously.

If anything it's the climbing and explosivity that has declined a bit. I honestly can't see him winning another Ronde now we are in the era of the Vans and Pidcock. And it felt telling that he didn't fancy a pop at the Giro stage Bettiol won the other day.

It's clear Bora has different priorities now so makes sense to go. TDE now would perhaps be in a bit similar place to Bora when he moved there. Will it be an issue he'll be targeting the same races as Turgis? Who looks a useful prospect. Do TDE have the strength in depth he needs to support him on the hilly intermediate stages?

Could be an inspired move, but could also be a car crash.

 

[Keram]

What a nice picture
https://m.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=327319305431497&set=pcb.327319438764817&__cft__[0]=AZXAFntirtpBEoWOI-drIbNcjpdMNSHHsB0sITJCSTo0Xzu0KLTUBzqN2GkG2gWRWY0K8D0yuPBGyYNwFgc0IIWAzLXmXh0_1IiVamDvEP8ThP1jQbqNhoLBLCukw0Q8q8rcS5KYA7doN66i6YsWLgyzTrf-1w5FkdILk49aoi8vng&__tn__=*bH-R

 

[Oldermanish]

I'd think Sagan is enough of a team player but the team is already crowded. As Glassmoon pointed out before: PS comes with an entourage. How much of that group Sagan can afford to carry may be the definition of his upcoming career.

Looks like a few too many people on Sagan's gravy train for DQS, like Glassmoon said.

 

[DaLong]

I am not a huge fan of DQS whatsoever, and at first I thought Sagan to DQS would be like a hero going to the evil empire. But now that it's not happening, I am slightly disappointed - I really do think he would get a nice bump in wins and classics, and that's all I really care about - him buffing up his palmares before retirement. If he goes to TDE, well I feel like with his crew it'll be the same difference as being at Bora.

 

[IndianCyclist]

I think for any leader it should be Leader + 2 Support riders(With 1 of them the last man) + 1 Mechanic + 1 Doctor/Physio etc. Any more support should come from the team itself and if more support is required, it should from his personal management not on the team. Consider team size in a GT is 8 and a one day race is 7 , if the Sagan 5 are there where is the space to accomodate the other leaders and would Sagan 5 extend the same support for other leaders. In the DSQ team that would be impossible.