Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

[grizzlee]

Re: Re:

My hope is the Sagan wins a monument and soon. He is far and away one of the best riders in the peloton. Really tired of people cracking on him.
He's only 25 and if he were to retire today, he'd still have one of the best careers in the peloton. We've all been spoiled.

Yes, he is only 25, but while his results seem to stagnate, other people of the same age are getting more and more successful. E.g. Quintana, Pinot, Kwiatkowski, Bouhanni, Bardet, Colbrelli, Matthews, Aru, ... all born in 1990 and all are getting stronger and stronger each season. Sagan had an early start but the last 2 years were clearly not his best. So we can't only measure him on general success, but must also take a look on his previous level of racing and compare it to 2015. Or short: Yes, he is strong, but not as strong as before. And the main question here is why?

lol.....................

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Well I'm pretty sure

Degenkolb:
Monuments:1 (+ 1 podium)
Classics:3 (GW, Hamburg,Paris-Tours)
Semi-Classics: 4(Frankfurt, GP d'Isbergues, 2xParis-Bourges)
GT Stages: 10 (Giro 1 + Vuelta 9)
GT Points Jersey: 1 (Vuelta)
WT wins: 17
Overall wins: 42

Sagan:
Monuments: 0 (2 podiums)
Classics: 3 (GW, E3, Montreal)
Semi-Classics: 3 (GP Industria, Brabantse Pijl, Camaiore)
GT Stages: 7 (Tour 4, Vuelta 3)
GT Points Jersey: 3 (Tour)
WT wins: 29
Overall wins: 62

For me still Sagan has the edge...

Degenkolb for me, he's got the race that matters.

 

[Akuryo]

Re: Re:

My hope is the Sagan wins a monument and soon. He is far and away one of the best riders in the peloton. Really tired of people cracking on him.
He's only 25 and if he were to retire today, he'd still have one of the best careers in the peloton. We've all been spoiled.

Yes, he is only 25, but while his results seem to stagnate, other people of the same age are getting more and more successful. E.g. Quintana, Pinot, Kwiatkowski, Bouhanni, Bardet, Colbrelli, Matthews, Aru, ... all born in 1990 and all are getting stronger and stronger each season. Sagan had an early start but the last 2 years were clearly not his best. So we can't only measure him on general success, but must also take a look on his previous level of racing and compare it to 2015. Or short: Yes, he is strong, but not as strong as before. And the main question here is why?

lol.....................

Yeah? He was born in 1990 and got definiely better over the lasth 3 years while Sagan's victories decrease by the season. I did not say all these guys are better than him, but all of them are showing upside at the moment. Even Bouhanni.

 

[hfer07]

Re:

Apparently Sagan is suffering from some issues due to wrong positioning on the bike the last year or so at Cannondale...

Yesterday during race -danish eurosport commentator told he had been speaking to Riis who told him they had to change his position on the bike, and that it may take all season to undo the harm done.. I don't know how much there is to it but if he rode the "wrong" way the last few years on his previous team it could be one factor to his rare wins... With the new bike they build for him it does make some sense...

I heard similar rhetoric on Nibali when he arrived to Astana-but he said his position needed to be "refined" for the ITT. On Peter's bike position issues- I quite find it not credible-since he would have complained back then & it would have been an impediment for all the massive victories gained then....

I simply believe he's fading. Hope & pray he proves me wrong, because he's without a doubt a very talented rider with a promising career to fulfill

 

[arthurvandelay]

I wonder if he is developing mononucleosis ? It often strikes at this age and can be a little tough to diagnose early.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

Well I'm pretty sure

Degenkolb:
Monuments:1 (+ 1 podium)
Classics:3 (GW, Hamburg,Paris-Tours)
Semi-Classics: 4(Frankfurt, GP d'Isbergues, 2xParis-Bourges)
GT Stages: 10 (Giro 1 + Vuelta 9)
GT Points Jersey: 1 (Vuelta)
WT wins: 17
Overall wins: 42

Sagan:
Monuments: 0 (2 podiums)
Classics: 3 (GW, E3, Montreal)
Semi-Classics: 3 (GP Industria, Brabantse Pijl, Camaiore)
GT Stages: 7 (Tour 4, Vuelta 3)
GT Points Jersey: 3 (Tour)
WT wins: 29
Overall wins: 62

For me still Sagan has the edge...

Degenkolb for me, he's got the race that matters.

The others matter as well, just not as much. And Sagan has won enough of them for his palmares to exceed those of Degenkolb. Mainly thanks to his TDF accomplishments.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Well I'm pretty sure

Degenkolb:
Monuments:1 (+ 1 podium)
Classics:3 (GW, Hamburg,Paris-Tours)
Semi-Classics: 4(Frankfurt, GP d'Isbergues, 2xParis-Bourges)
GT Stages: 10 (Giro 1 + Vuelta 9)
GT Points Jersey: 1 (Vuelta)
WT wins: 17
Overall wins: 42

Sagan:
Monuments: 0 (2 podiums)
Classics: 3 (GW, E3, Montreal)
Semi-Classics: 3 (GP Industria, Brabantse Pijl, Camaiore)
GT Stages: 7 (Tour 4, Vuelta 3)
GT Points Jersey: 3 (Tour)
WT wins: 29
Overall wins: 62

For me still Sagan has the edge...

Degenkolb for me, he's got the race that matters.

The others matter as well, just not as much. And Sagan has won enough of them for his palmares to exceed those of Degenkolb. Mainly thanks to his TDF accomplishments.

You are of course entitled to your wrong opinion.

 

[Pantani_lives]

Degenkolb has been winning more recently, but subjectively I prefer watching Sagan because of his aggressive racing style.

 

[max_powers]

Re: Re:

Apparently Sagan is suffering from some issues due to wrong positioning on the bike the last year or so at Cannondale...

Yesterday during race -danish eurosport commentator told he had been speaking to Riis who told him they had to change his position on the bike, and that it may take all season to undo the harm done.. I don't know how much there is to it but if he rode the "wrong" way the last few years on his previous team it could be one factor to his rare wins... With the new bike they build for him it does make some sense...

I heard similar rhetoric on Nibali when he arrived to Astana-but he said his position needed to be "refined" for the ITT. On Peter's bike position issues- I quite find it not credible-since he would have complained back then & it would have been an impediment for all the massive victories gained then....

I simply believe he's fading. Hope & pray he proves me wrong, because he's without a doubt a very talented rider with a promising career to fulfill

Yes I noticed Sagan does not appear loosey goosey on his bike as before.
He's super strong, but 30km breakaways w just a cpl others not his forte.
Keep it fun Peter, I want to see you still challenging 10 years from now.

 

[TMP402]

So despite one of the reasons for his move to Tinkoff allegedly being to receive better support in the classics, Sagan actually had fewer team-mates at the end than Lampre managed for Pozzato.

 

[TourOfTexas]

Re:

So despite one of the reasons for his move to Tinkoff allegedly being to receive better support in the classics, Sagan actually had fewer team-mates at the end than Lampre managed for Pozzato.

I predicted Saxo was a terrible move.

 

[Irondan]

Re:

So despite one of the reasons for his move to Tinkoff allegedly being to receive better support in the classics, Sagan actually had fewer team-mates at the end than Lampre managed for Pozzato.

He seems to be alone a lot in the finale of these recent races, much the same as his days at Cannondale.

 

[SeriousSam]

Yes, pretty sure the 4m/ year lured sagan, not the promise of a strong team riding for him

 

[Jspear]

Don't worry all. He'll win PR.

 

[Jelantik]

Don't worry all. He'll win PR.

that would be awesome!!

 

[SeriousSam]

Ah well, he'll always have the prestigious Green Jersey

 

[sir fly]

I firmly believe he doesn't really like the cobbles, but that's where he needs to search for eternal glory at the moment.
At the beginning of his career I thought he'll develop into an all rounder capable of targeting hilly Monuments as well, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to be the case.
He needs a change in his career management.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

I firmly believe he doesn't really like the cobbles, but that's where he needs to search for eternal glory at the moment.
At the beginning of his career I thought he'll develop into an all rounder capable of targeting hilly Monuments as well, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to be the case.
He needs a change in his career management.

I think he's just been completely thrown off by the rise of Kristoff and Degenkolb. We've got two riders now who have engines as strong as the pure classics specialists, but who can also win sprints against the likes of Cav and Bouhanni on flat GT stages.

Sagan just doesn't have the ability to beat riders like that, so he tries to go from long - which he doesn't have the legs for. I'm not sure what he can do to change it; I'm not even sure if he is any worse than 2-3 years ago, just that the level of competition is much higher now.

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

I firmly believe he doesn't really like the cobbles, but that's where he needs to search for eternal glory at the moment.
At the beginning of his career I thought he'll develop into an all rounder capable of targeting hilly Monuments as well, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to be the case.
He needs a change in his career management.

I think he's just been completely thrown off by the rise of Kristoff and Degenkolb. We've got two riders now who have engines as strong as the pure classics specialists, but who can also win sprints against the likes of Cav and Bouhanni on flat GT stages.

Sagan just doesn't have the ability to beat riders like that, so he tries to go from long - which he doesn't have the legs for. I'm not sure what he can do to change it; I'm not even sure if he is any worse than 2-3 years ago, just that the level of competition is much higher now.

Watching him riding on the cobbles I have an impression that he really feels uncomfortable and struggles to find appropriate path.

 

[HelloDolly]

So no classic wins for Sagan...but he didn't look too upset after the race once cleaned up because he has $4 million od Oleg's money to spend

 

[DBotero]

I don't think he was in bad form today,but he was riding strange,appearing at the front when it was no need to do it.He seemed rather undecided on his moves,imo now he's too scared to attack

 

[ray j willings]

Sagan,he looks washed up.

 

[ray j willings]

I don't think he was in bad form today,but he was riding strange,appearing at the front when it was no need to do it.He seemed rather undecided on his moves,imo now he's too scared to attack

He tried to attack but he had "nufink" I hate to say it but Wiggo's attack was better.

 

[argyllflyer]

Daniel Friebe said in the cycling podcast recently that there are (I assume well-founded if he's parrotting them) rumours Sagan has let the Monaco lifestyle affect him on-bike.

 

[Jelantik]

Re:

Daniel Friebe said in the cycling podcast recently that there are (I assume well-founded if he's parrotting them) rumours Sagan has let the Monaco lifestyle affect him on-bike.

what do you mean by that? Please collaborate. is he leaving a lifestyle that was more training before or he is leaving the style that mostly less training?