Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

[HelloDolly]

What is up with Sagan ....today he came to almost a stand still ....

 

[WillemS]

Re:

What is up with Sagan ....today he came to almost a stand still ....

Riis is gone...

 

[peloton]

Remember how bad season Contador had in -13? That was after Tinkov sent him all over places for sponsor stuff. He did almost the same with Contador, Majka and Sagan last year....

 

[sir fly]

Re:

What is up with Sagan ....today he came to almost a stand still ....

Very similar to what happened in Strade Bianche.
I don't remember seeing it before. There might be more substance in the training regime rumours than it looks.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

What is up with Sagan ....today he came to almost a stand still ....

Very similar to what happened in Strade Bianche.
I don't remember seeing it before. There might be more substance in the training regime rumours than it looks.

I think this is it: the seemingly dramatic falling away of everyone but one of the two exceptional talents on the team (Contador (and even he is hardly at his best)) implies the team is being dragged down badly.

 

[TMP402]

Re:

Remember how bad season Contador had in -13? That was after Tinkov sent him all over places for sponsor stuff. He did almost the same with Contador, Majka and Sagan last year....

Look how sponsors ruined the big event of the first half of Cavendish's season.

 

[Asero831]

He clearly does not have it

 

[Jancouver]

Re:

He clearly does not have it

Yes, it sucks to be the 3rd strongest rider of the day ... when G went and he couldn't follow, he gave up because winning is the only thing ...

but based on some of the comments here, he should quit cycling all together.

IMO he is too bulky and should lose few lb ...

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Re:

Remember how bad season Contador had in -13? That was after Tinkov sent him all over places for sponsor stuff. He did almost the same with Contador, Majka and Sagan last year....

Look how sponsors ruined the big event of the first half of Cavendish's season.

and don't forget Nibali too. He saved his season by finally getting his form on time at TDF.

 

[SKSemtex]

RVV will suit him much better. He will be fine. Hopefully he will not be the only one from TS in last 40 km.

 

[Bushman]

He needs time to cope with new training methods and so on. He just needs to keep working and next year he can compete for the win in the big races, I think.

 

[zigmeister]

WTF does TD Hoffman expect. The stuff his director is saying about him is going to not win him any friends or riders who want to work for him.

What he said is a complete disrespect of one of the best/Top 10 riders IMO in the World, Gerrant Thomas. This guy is no joke and if given the opportunity as a team leader, can do some amazing stuff, his talent, which includes climbing, are no joke. To say Sagan should have rider 40KM with those two, a former #1 Cyclecross champ, and Thomas, and be able to ride off the front and smoke them at the end is a joke to say.

Get a grip Director Sportif....

 

[ray j willings]

Is Sagan really this bad at the moment or is Sagan playing the long game so he will not be heavily marked come the big classic's?

 

[Jspear]

Re:

Is Sagan really this bad at the moment or is Sagan playing the long game so he will not be heavily marked come the big classic's?

I highly doubt that he is bluffing. In E3 he was there with the best and obviously exploded in the last 3 K. Today you can only fault him if you are willing to fault Kristoff, Degenkolb, ect.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Is Sagan really this bad at the moment or is Sagan playing the long game so he will not be heavily marked come the big classic's?

I highly doubt that he is bluffing. In E3 he was there with the best and obviously exploded in the last 3 K. Today you can only fault him if you are willing to fault Kristoff, Degenkolb, ect.

I agree with this. He's not in all that bad shape. He's cracked badly twice (Strade Bianche and E3) - on both occasions he tried to break apart the race with about 50k to go and just didn't have the legs for it - he rarely has had the shape to do that - even 2-3 years ago. The other races where he didn't look to attack (MSR and several other stage races), he's looked quite strong but just got outsprinted by faster guys.

If he can get the balance right (and more importantly if he is allowed to by other teams), for example, joining a select group or making it break with less than 20km to go, he could still win one of the monuments. He just can't work with riders like Thomas or Stybar from so far out, because he doesn't have the same endurance and burns too many of his matches too early.

Today doesn't mean anything. A brutally hard race two days after he rode himself into the ground in a long breakaway, is no real indication of his ability at the moment.

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

Is Sagan really this bad at the moment or is Sagan playing the long game so he will not be heavily marked come the big classic's?

I highly doubt that he is bluffing. In E3 he was there with the best and obviously exploded in the last 3 K. Today you can only fault him if you are willing to fault Kristoff, Degenkolb, ect.

Today was exceptionally brutal. It was a day of survival for most.
I only thought this because Sagan was getting really heavily marked and it was getting to a point where a victory was near impossible. If he looks really bad for a few races then he may get that bit of freedom.
It's worth a try. Cancellara has that problem and Thomas was heavily marked today as well I thought.
But I agree with your post, just seeing what other posters think about that idea.

 

[WildspokeJoe]

My hope is the Sagan wins a monument and soon. He is far and away one of the best riders in the peloton. Really tired of people cracking on him.
He's only 25 and if he were to retire today, he'd still have one of the best careers in the peloton. We've all been spoiled.

 

[Akuryo]

Re:

My hope is the Sagan wins a monument and soon. He is far and away one of the best riders in the peloton. Really tired of people cracking on him.
He's only 25 and if he were to retire today, he'd still have one of the best careers in the peloton. We've all been spoiled.

Yes, he is only 25, but while his results seem to stagnate, other people of the same age are getting more and more successful. E.g. Quintana, Pinot, Kwiatkowski, Bouhanni, Bardet, Colbrelli, Matthews, Aru, ... all born in 1990 and all are getting stronger and stronger each season. Sagan had an early start but the last 2 years were clearly not his best. So we can't only measure him on general success, but must also take a look on his previous level of racing and compare it to 2015. Or short: Yes, he is strong, but not as strong as before. And the main question here is why?

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

My hope is the Sagan wins a monument and soon. He is far and away one of the best riders in the peloton. Really tired of people cracking on him.
He's only 25 and if he were to retire today, he'd still have one of the best careers in the peloton. We've all been spoiled.

Yes, he is only 25, but while his results seem to stagnate, other people of the same age are getting more and more successful. E.g. Quintana, Pinot, Kwiatkowski, Bouhanni, Bardet, Colbrelli, Matthews, Aru, ... all born in 1990 and all are getting stronger and stronger each season. Sagan had an early start but the last 2 years were clearly not his best. So we can't only measure him on general success, but must also take a look on his previous level of racing and compare it to 2015. Or short: Yes, he is strong, but not as strong as before. And the main question here is why?

Yes, the things should be put in a wider prospective.
It's strange how natural talent can fade all of a sudden.

But he'll always be able to pinch bottoms while winners are getting kisses.

 

[HelloDolly]

It's strange how natural talent can fade all of a sudden.

We have seen this so many times in cycling as we have also seen riders who don't do much till 29 (usually GC guys

IHe is far and away one of the best riders in the peloton

Sagan is very strong but he is not by a long shot the strongest rider in the peloton...if he were he would have won a monument by now. Kristoff , Degenkolb , Kittle , Matthews, Nairo, Aru are all better in my book...maybe Sagan will turn it around but it won't be easy

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

It's strange how natural talent can fade all of a sudden.

We have seen this so many times in cycling as we have also seen riders who don't do much till 29 (usually GC guys

IHe is far and away one of the best riders in the peloton

Sagan is very strong but he is not by a long shot the strongest rider in the peloton...if he were he would have won a monument by now. Kristoff , Degenkolb , Kittle , Matthews, Nairo, Aru are all better in my book...maybe Sagan will turn it around but it won't be easy

None of them had better career than Sagan so far.., except maybe Quintana

 

[WildspokeJoe]

Re: Re:

My hope is the Sagan wins a monument and soon. He is far and away one of the best riders in the peloton. Really tired of people cracking on him.
He's only 25 and if he were to retire today, he'd still have one of the best careers in the peloton. We've all been spoiled.

Yes, he is only 25, but while his results seem to stagnate, other people of the same age are getting more and more successful. E.g. Quintana, Pinot, Kwiatkowski, Bouhanni, Bardet, Colbrelli, Matthews, Aru, ... all born in 1990 and all are getting stronger and stronger each season. Sagan had an early start but the last 2 years were clearly not his best. So we can't only measure him on general success, but must also take a look on his previous level of racing and compare it to 2015. Or short: Yes, he is strong, but not as strong as before. And the main question here is why?

Yes, the things should be put in a wider prospective.
It's strange how natural talent can fade all of a sudden.

But he'll always be able to pinch bottoms while winners are getting kisses.

Sagan caught so much unwarranted heat last year. He was so dominate at the tour. The only thing he didn't do was win a stage but he KILLED everyone in the green jersey competition. It wasn't even close. He excelled even though everyone was riding against him.

My biggest fear if he doesn't score in the classics, people will say he had another down year. But I don't think he will get a chance to excell at the tour. The team will be built around Contador.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

It's strange how natural talent can fade all of a sudden.

We have seen this so many times in cycling as we have also seen riders who don't do much till 29 (usually GC guys

IHe is far and away one of the best riders in the peloton

Sagan is very strong but he is not by a long shot the strongest rider in the peloton...if he were he would have won a monument by now. Kristoff , Degenkolb , Kittle , Matthews, Nairo, Aru are all better in my book...maybe Sagan will turn it around but it won't be easy

None of them had better career than Sagan so far.., except maybe Quintana

I'm not so sure Degenkolb isn't better than Sagan.

Degenkolb:
monuments: 1
other classics: 3 (vattenfall, gent-wevelgem and paris-tours)
GT stages: 10
GT points jerseys: 1

Sagan:
monuments: 0
other classics: 3 (gent-wevelgem, brabantse pijl and e3 harelbek)
GT stages: 7
GT points jerseys: 3

 

[burning]

Re: Re:

It's strange how natural talent can fade all of a sudden.

We have seen this so many times in cycling as we have also seen riders who don't do much till 29 (usually GC guys

IHe is far and away one of the best riders in the peloton

Sagan is very strong but he is not by a long shot the strongest rider in the peloton...if he were he would have won a monument by now. Kristoff , Degenkolb , Kittle , Matthews, Nairo, Aru are all better in my book...maybe Sagan will turn it around but it won't be easy

None of them had better career than Sagan so far.., except maybe Quintana

I'm not so sure Degenkolb isn't better than Sagan.

Degenkolb:
monuments: 1
other classics: 3 (vattenfall, gent-wevelgem and paris-tours)
GT stages: 10
GT points jerseys: 1

Sagan:
monuments: 0
other classics: 3 (gent-wevelgem, brabantse pijl and e3 harelbek)
GT stages: 7
GT points jerseys: 3

You forgot Montreal for Sagan.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

It's strange how natural talent can fade all of a sudden.

We have seen this so many times in cycling as we have also seen riders who don't do much till 29 (usually GC guys

IHe is far and away one of the best riders in the peloton

Sagan is very strong but he is not by a long shot the strongest rider in the peloton...if he were he would have won a monument by now. Kristoff , Degenkolb , Kittle , Matthews, Nairo, Aru are all better in my book...maybe Sagan will turn it around but it won't be easy

None of them had better career than Sagan so far.., except maybe Quintana

I'm not so sure Degenkolb isn't better than Sagan.

Degenkolb:
monuments: 1
other classics: 3 (vattenfall, gent-wevelgem and paris-tours)
GT stages: 10
GT points jerseys: 1

Sagan:
monuments: 0
other classics: 3 (gent-wevelgem, brabantse pijl and e3 harelbek)
GT stages: 7
GT points jerseys: 3

Well I'm pretty sure

Degenkolb:
Monuments:1 (+ 1 podium)
Classics:3 (GW, Hamburg,Paris-Tours)
Semi-Classics: 4(Frankfurt, GP d'Isbergues, 2xParis-Bourges)
GT Stages: 10 (Giro 1 + Vuelta 9)
GT Points Jersey: 1 (Vuelta)
WT wins: 17
Overall wins: 42

Sagan:
Monuments: 0 (2 podiums)
Classics: 3 (GW, E3, Montreal)
Semi-Classics: 3 (GP Industria, Brabantse Pijl, Camaiore)
GT Stages: 7 (Tour 4, Vuelta 3)
GT Points Jersey: 3 (Tour)
WT wins: 29
Overall wins: 62

For me still Sagan has the edge...