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Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

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May 26, 2015
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I'm just going to say it like it is:

Sagan will eat Cancellara on the Velodrome, and both of them will go full genius before it. Just saying. I've said on the first 5 pages of the RVV thread: Sagan put Fabian on the ropes at the last muur at GW. You don't do that to the king unless you become the new king.
 
Re: Re:

Brullnux said:
CheckMyPecs said:
Alexandre B. said:
Terpstra had race for victory in E3 Harelbeke (2014) and Flanders (2015), simply beaten by hardmen sprinters on both occasions.
Real champions win, mediocre riders come up with excuses for why they didn't win.
Is "I am not as fast as the guy who has won Milan San Remo in a bunch sprint" a good enough excuse for you :rolleyes:
Probably shouldn't have ridden with him until the line then. It wasn't difficult to forsee what would happen in that scenario. Terpstra knew he was riding for 2nd place in the last 10km and went along with it.

Do you think Cancellara would have worked with Kristoff and just waited until a sprint in that situation?
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Brullnux said:
CheckMyPecs said:
Alexandre B. said:
Terpstra had race for victory in E3 Harelbeke (2014) and Flanders (2015), simply beaten by hardmen sprinters on both occasions.
Real champions win, mediocre riders come up with excuses for why they didn't win.
Is "I am not as fast as the guy who has won Milan San Remo in a bunch sprint" a good enough excuse for you :rolleyes:
Probably shouldn't have ridden with him until the line then. It wasn't difficult to forsee what would happen in that scenario. Terpstra knew he was riding for 2nd place in the last 10km and went along with it.

Do you think Cancellara would have worked with Kristoff and just waited until a sprint in that situation?

No, but kristoff was both stronger and faster than terpstra. Terpstra is not Cancellara,
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Re: Re:

CheckMyPecs said:
jaylew said:
C'mon, he clearly has the quality. He'd already finished 3rd and 5th there and finished top 6 in all 6 cobbled races he did that year.
He reminds me of Flecha: good enough to do well and even podium in Paris-Roubaix, but not good enough to win the race outright in normal circumstances.

The fact that he hasn't won any other WT classic is further proof that 2014 was a fluke.
He reminds me of LeMond: physique and pedaling action. He's all over bike. He looks like he's put on some muscle mass this year as well.
 
Re: Re:

CheckMyPecs said:
jaylew said:
C'mon, he clearly has the quality. He'd already finished 3rd and 5th there and finished top 6 in all 6 cobbled races he did that year.
He reminds me of Flecha: good enough to do well and even podium in Paris-Roubaix, but not good enough to win the race outright in normal circumstances.
h
The fact that he hasn't won any other WT classic is further proof that 2014 was a fluke.
you do remember, that despite being only a shade of himself last season, he actually rode quite well on roubaix, and only mechanical had stopped him from challenging degenkolb in the velodrome. the fact that he clored the gap to wigins group singlehanidly speak for the amount of power, he still have left in the tank.
 
Re: Re:

PremierAndrew said:
Red Rick said:
Paris Roubaix up next. Bit harder to control.

Is he gonna do the AGR after that?

I'll be shocked if Sagan podiums at PR. He doesn't have the endurance of the likes of Canc, but also guys like Terpstra, whereas RVV is more about multiple explosive efforts

Important to remember that while Sagan has ridden RVV every season since 2011, he has ridden PR only three times, coming 86th, 6th and 23rd. On which note, I hope he finally makes his LBL debut just to see what happens.
 
Re: Re:

TMP402 said:
PremierAndrew said:
Red Rick said:
Paris Roubaix up next. Bit harder to control.

Is he gonna do the AGR after that?

I'll be shocked if Sagan podiums at PR. He doesn't have the endurance of the likes of Canc, but also guys like Terpstra, whereas RVV is more about multiple explosive efforts

Important to remember that while Sagan has ridden RVV every season since 2011, he has ridden PR only three times, coming 86th, 6th and 23rd. On which note, I hope he finally makes his LBL debut just to see what happens.

And when he has won LBL, why not win Lombardia as well? Sagan is probably the only one who has a realistic shot at winning all the monuments. He should definitely try that! And just to prepare for those races, he might as well ride AGR. I can't see why he shouldn't be the favourite there
 
Re: Re:

CheckMyPecs said:
PremierAndrew said:
I'll be shocked if Sagan podiums at PR. He doesn't have the endurance of the likes of Canc, but also guys like Terpstra, whereas RVV is more about multiple explosive efforts
Guys who lack the quality to win Paris-Roubaix in normal circumstances but won because the 2014 edition turned out to be a lottery?

You didn't refute the point about Terpstra's endurance. In the Dutch national road race in terrible weather conditions last year - 253km long - he won a bunch sprint from a group of 7 including van Poppel, Hofland, Sinkeldam and Groenewegen. A guy who can't beat Ian Stannard in a sprint earlier that season only beats four good sprinters because he likes long races.
 
Feb 6, 2016
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Re: Re:

Valv.Piti said:
TMP402 said:
PremierAndrew said:
Red Rick said:
Paris Roubaix up next. Bit harder to control.

Is he gonna do the AGR after that?

I'll be shocked if Sagan podiums at PR. He doesn't have the endurance of the likes of Canc, but also guys like Terpstra, whereas RVV is more about multiple explosive efforts

Important to remember that while Sagan has ridden RVV every season since 2011, he has ridden PR only three times, coming 86th, 6th and 23rd. On which note, I hope he finally makes his LBL debut just to see what happens.

And when he has won LBL, why not win Lombardia as well? Sagan is probably the only one who has a realistic shot at winning all the monuments. He should definitely try that! And just to prepare for those races, he might as well ride AGR. I can't see why he shouldn't be the favourite there

Be a huge surprise if Sagan wins Roubaix. We've seen again and again this classics season Sagan attacking and trying to ride solo or in a small group; given he's mostly done that with explosive efforts on climbs, I don't see where he's going to make the gaps on this completely flat and much more challenging course. He clearly doesn't rely on his sprint, so he'll have to get rid of the likes of Kristoff, but if he does I imagine he'd use far too much energy to recover for the velodrome, and if the race is that hard Sagan will probably be struggling anyway, at least compared with pavé specialists and TT engines like Cancellara, Vanmarcke, Terpstra, or Stybar.

(The reason I quoted this post is to dispute the (possibly sarcastic) assertion only Sagan can win all 5 monuments. I think Kwiatkowski has a better chance of managing that, but I don't really think either will.)
 
Re: Re:

Valv.Piti said:
TMP402 said:
PremierAndrew said:
Red Rick said:
Paris Roubaix up next. Bit harder to control.

Is he gonna do the AGR after that?

I'll be shocked if Sagan podiums at PR. He doesn't have the endurance of the likes of Canc, but also guys like Terpstra, whereas RVV is more about multiple explosive efforts

Important to remember that while Sagan has ridden RVV every season since 2011, he has ridden PR only three times, coming 86th, 6th and 23rd. On which note, I hope he finally makes his LBL debut just to see what happens.

And when he has won LBL, why not win Lombardia as well? Sagan is probably the only one who has a realistic shot at winning all the monuments. He should definitely try that! And just to prepare for those races, he might as well ride AGR. I can't see why he shouldn't be the favourite there

Sagan is capable of all 5 along with, I'd say: Valverde, Thomas, Cancellara, Gallopin, GVA, Kwiatkowski, Gilbert, Nibali, Benoot. Obviously some have missed the boat, or are yet to develop fully, but have shown they have the tools to win all the races at some point in their careers. Relatedly, if one could devise a fair competition to decide the best all-round cyclist in the world, Sagan would probably win right now, and the others I listed would be close.

Edit: and EBH
 
I agree, they are capable, but its super unlikely apart from Sagan IMO. Benoot can everything as well, but as talented as he is, talents like Sagan only comes once in a blue moon. Cance might have been able to do it as well had he tried more. Kwiatkowski is interesting, but when he gets obliterated on Kwaremont, imagine him in P-R... A Gilbert 2011 would have been a contender in every race.

I guess what I am trying to say, its actually possible that he is able to win all 5. More likely than every other combined.
 
Valv.Piti said:
I agree, they are capable, but its super unlikely apart from Sagan IMO. Benoot can everything as well, but as talented as he is, talents like Sagan only comes once in a blue moon. Cance might have been able to do it as well had he tried more. Kwiatkowski is interesting, but when he gets obliterated on Kwaremont, imagine him in P-R... A Gilbert 2011 would have been a contender in every race.

I guess what I am trying to say, its actually possible that he is able to win all 5. More likely than every other combined.

Gilbert has podiumed every Monument, except for Roubaix.
 
Valv.Piti said:
I agree, they are capable, but its super unlikely apart from Sagan IMO. Benoot can everything as well, but as talented as he is, talents like Sagan only comes once in a blue moon. Cance might have been able to do it as well had he tried more. Kwiatkowski is interesting, but when he gets obliterated on Kwaremont, imagine him in P-R... A Gilbert 2011 would have been a contender in every race.

I guess what I am trying to say, its actually possible that he is able to win all 5. More likely than every other combined.

I agree.
 
Re: Re:

TMP402 said:
Valv.Piti said:
TMP402 said:
PremierAndrew said:
Red Rick said:
Paris Roubaix up next. Bit harder to control.

Is he gonna do the AGR after that?

I'll be shocked if Sagan podiums at PR. He doesn't have the endurance of the likes of Canc, but also guys like Terpstra, whereas RVV is more about multiple explosive efforts

Important to remember that while Sagan has ridden RVV every season since 2011, he has ridden PR only three times, coming 86th, 6th and 23rd. On which note, I hope he finally makes his LBL debut just to see what happens.

And when he has won LBL, why not win Lombardia as well? Sagan is probably the only one who has a realistic shot at winning all the monuments. He should definitely try that! And just to prepare for those races, he might as well ride AGR. I can't see why he shouldn't be the favourite there

Sagan is capable of all 5 along with, I'd say: Valverde, Thomas, Cancellara, Gallopin, GVA, Kwiatkowski, Gilbert, Nibali, Benoot. Obviously some have missed the boat, or are yet to develop fully, but have shown they have the tools to win all the races at some point in their careers. Relatedly, if one could devise a fair competition to decide the best all-round cyclist in the world, Sagan would probably win right now, and the others I listed would be close.

Edit: and EBH

Valverde, no to the cobbles probably, might make top 10 in flanders, almost no chance of winning it. In Flanders, he's not a the only half decent sprinter among climbers anymore.

Gallopin, no to PR and Flanders, tiny shots anyway at the others

GVA, Lombardia might be too unrealistic on the new parcours

Kwiatkowski, not strong enough on cobbles. Big no to PR, small no to flanders, outclimbed in Lombardia

Gilbert, no to flanders, guess no to roubaix, on current parcours he wouldn't win Lombaria anymore

Nibali, :D . Paris Roubaix in apocalyptic rain maybe, no to Flanders

Benoot, I dunno
 
Feb 6, 2016
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Re: Re:

TMP402 said:
Valv.Piti said:
TMP402 said:
PremierAndrew said:
Red Rick said:
Paris Roubaix up next. Bit harder to control.

Is he gonna do the AGR after that?

I'll be shocked if Sagan podiums at PR. He doesn't have the endurance of the likes of Canc, but also guys like Terpstra, whereas RVV is more about multiple explosive efforts

Important to remember that while Sagan has ridden RVV every season since 2011, he has ridden PR only three times, coming 86th, 6th and 23rd. On which note, I hope he finally makes his LBL debut just to see what happens.

And when he has won LBL, why not win Lombardia as well? Sagan is probably the only one who has a realistic shot at winning all the monuments. He should definitely try that! And just to prepare for those races, he might as well ride AGR. I can't see why he shouldn't be the favourite there

Sagan is capable of all 5 along with, I'd say: Valverde, Thomas, Cancellara, Gallopin, GVA, Kwiatkowski, Gilbert, Nibali, Benoot. Obviously some have missed the boat, or are yet to develop fully, but have shown they have the tools to win all the races at some point in their careers. Relatedly, if one could devise a fair competition to decide the best all-round cyclist in the world, Sagan would probably win right now, and the others I listed would be close.

Edit: and EBH

I don't think Valverde would ever have been capable of P-R but the rest I broadly agree with; Thomas started too late, but probably is theoretically capable of all five, Cance could have won GdL if he'd found his 2009 Mendrisio form, Gallopin still could (I love that guy), GVA has at least enough explosive climbing ability, Gilbert has podiumed everything but Roubaix, Nibali's come agonisingiy close to L-B-L and M-SR already and could have won the old Flanders, and Benoot's just an amazing talent.

I definitely agree Sagan is more able to win L-B-L than P-R. It would take work on his part, but he's already hugely improved his cobblestone ability recently. If he can follow the right wheel, the race is probably selective enough for him not to need to make any crazy attacks to force a selection. The problem is whether his sprint is good enough after a hard 250km race to beat riders like Kwiatkowski and Valverde, since I don't see him soloing away from them
 
Mar 13, 2015
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Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Brullnux said:
CheckMyPecs said:
Alexandre B. said:
Terpstra had race for victory in E3 Harelbeke (2014) and Flanders (2015), simply beaten by hardmen sprinters on both occasions.
Real champions win, mediocre riders come up with excuses for why they didn't win.
Is "I am not as fast as the guy who has won Milan San Remo in a bunch sprint" a good enough excuse for you :rolleyes:
Probably shouldn't have ridden with him until the line then. It wasn't difficult to forsee what would happen in that scenario. Terpstra knew he was riding for 2nd place in the last 10km and went along with it.

Do you think Cancellara would have worked with Kristoff and just waited until a sprint in that situation

Well he worked with Boonen in PR 2008, no?
 
I dont think sagan has a great chance in pr because he won today. I believe sagan has a great chance because after everything he put time into everybody on the flat run in to the finish. And he's already beem up there in pr before, in worse form, with better competition.
 

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