Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

[spalco]

While he does not appear to be very smart, but he has the wisdom to see the wider picture:
1) this sport (no, every sport), is at the end an entertainment for the fans. Many for whatever reasons refuse to see that. ( Yes, many sports, including cycling and e.g. football have a strong participatory element. Still, looking from sufficiently far away, the primary purpose of the top cyclists/footballers is to entertain/inspire the masses.)

Yeah, but at the same time, any sport would be *** boring if winning was just a matter of math and science, comparing watts/hour, strength/weight, acceleration-top speed, etc. Even simple sports like 100m sprint or weightlifting have elements of tactics and mind games.

If everybody was playing by Sagan's rules, yeah, he would win almost every *** race he wants, but how exciting would that be?

If that's the way Sagan wants to be - fair play to him. But then it's a bit weak to complain about other riders doing whatever it is they can to win with the tools they have.

 

[d-s3]

Judging by his presentation in his native language, there's no issue (with any rider, actually).

 

[Gigs_98]

I always liked sagan and his style of racing but right now he behaves like a child. Even he has to understand that what kwiat did was the only right thing to do and saying he didn't want to win this way is rubbish. He wins most of his races without attacking, and hey, if making a show is more important than winning why did he wait for the sprint in races like Bergen. It's like a kid whose team loses a football game and then with tears in its eyes claims if they wanted they easily could have won because actually they are way better

 

[yaco]

Has Sagan won over 100 races - He's doing OK.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I always liked sagan and his style of racing but right now he behaves like a child. Even he has to understand that what kwiat did was the only right thing to do and saying he didn't want to win this way is rubbish. He wins most of his races without attacking, and hey, if making a show is more important than winning why did he wait for the sprint in races like Bergen. It's like a kid whose team loses a football game and then with tears in its eyes claims if they wanted they easily could have won because actually they are way better

Yeah, I can't take it seriously really. Playing for the media is how I best can describe it, polishing his image as the the cool guy, the entertainer! Christ, he has won 3 WCs in a row where he has been COMPLETELY anonymous until the last 200 metres safe for his first title in Richmond where he attacked from where, 4 km out?

 

[Netserk]

Part of it is lazy reporting. Journalists know that if they poke him around long enough, they will get a soundbite eventually that they can use, leaving out the rest. He starts off saying that winning is what matters, more so than style of racing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AGQ7lT8RfA

How would you like to win, what is the dream scenario for you?
-Important is to win. How you win, it doesn't matter. Well, important to win.

...

But for sure, he prefers to win with style and to put on a show. You can see he tries to deflect some of the pressure there is for him to win, and why he hasn't won it yet.

 

[tomorrow]

Re:

Part of it is lazy reporting. Journalists know that if they poke him around long enough, they will get a soundbite eventually that they can use, leaving out the rest. He starts off saying that winning is what matters, more so than style of racing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AGQ7lT8RfA

How would you like to win, what is the dream scenario for you?
-Important is to win. How you win, it doesn't matter. Well, important to win.

...

But for sure, he prefers to win with style and to put on a show. You can see he tries to deflect some of the pressure there is for him to win, and why he hasn't won it yet.

Thank you for the link, that were probably the most reasonable responses I´ve heard form him. I just don´t get the journalists. How can they just keep asking those stupid questions over and over again.
If somebody would ask such questions I would stop talking to him for wasting my time.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Part of it is lazy reporting. Journalists know that if they poke him around long enough, they will get a soundbite eventually that they can use, leaving out the rest. He starts off saying that winning is what matters, more so than style of racing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AGQ7lT8RfA

How would you like to win, what is the dream scenario for you?
-Important is to win. How you win, it doesn't matter. Well, important to win.

...

But for sure, he prefers to win with style and to put on a show. You can see he tries to deflect some of the pressure there is for him to win, and why he hasn't won it yet.

Thank you for the link, that were probably the most reasonable responses I´ve heard form him. I just don´t get the journalists. How can they just keep asking those stupid questions over and over again.
If somebody would ask such questions I would stop talking to him for wasting my time.

#fakenews

 

[Gorecki]

I always liked sagan and his style of racing but right now he behaves like a child. Even he has to understand that what kwiat did was the only right thing to do and saying he didn't want to win this way is rubbish. He wins most of his races without attacking, and hey, if making a show is more important than winning why did he wait for the sprint in races like Bergen. It's like a kid whose team loses a football game and then with tears in its eyes claims if they wanted they easily could have won because actually they are way better

Yeah, I can't take it seriously really. Playing for the media is how I best can describe it, polishing his image as the the cool guy, the entertainer! Christ, he has won 3 WCs in a row where he has been COMPLETELY anonymous until the last 200 metres safe for his first title in Richmond where he attacked from where, 4 km out?

Even though you picked these three victories out of his 100, lets break it down.

Richmond 4 km is not enough to be NOT anonymous?
Doha? Bunch sprint!
Bergen too, but you probably deliberately ignore the "missing" coverage from Bergen, where he definitely wasnt "anonymous".

Compare it to the wheelsucking of Kwia for seven! kilometers behind Peter and overtaking him on the final meters.

Thats something completely different, dont you think?

 

[Screecher]

Once again an overwhelming favorite to win and once again a huge fail. I really hope he gets it right at least in 1 classic this spring.

 

[jfazendeiro]

P. Sagan strategy today: to lose without intervene. Conversative in one part, original in the other.

 

[tomorrow]

Re:

Once again an overwhelming favorite to win and once again a huge fail. I really hope he gets it right at least in 1 classic this spring.

I don't think it was such a fail. They underestimated nibali yes, but not only sagan and bora, but also other teams and riders. Just look at the panic in peloton when nibali got such a gap so quickly. Bahrain Merida just started the show a little sooner than expected end executed it perfectly.

What I don't get is what was bora doing, at first the attack of burghard and at the same time, they were placed all over the peloton, and imho their only responsibility was to be aligned at the front a either control such attempts from the start or do exactly tha same for Sagan as BM did for Nibali.
They are very strong, but they should get much more organized, because it seems they are seriously overthinking things. They should just do a Boratrain in classics, they have the numbers for that.

 

[Keram]

"I knew that if I went solo and chased, we'd get him but the problem was that nobody reacted, they were all expecting me, so I said: Okay. I told myself: Vincenzo wins or we'll catch him. We didn't catch and that's okay."

IMO San Remo 2017 was breaking point for Sagan. He is more conservative after that. I think it is against his nature and it doesnt work very well. He won that way WC though. I am curious about cobbled classics. I hope he will be more active than last year.

 

[Koronin]

At Richmond Worlds he was doing his best to totally hide within the peloton until those last couple of Ks. We have a ton of pictures of the field as they rode by and have a grand total of 1 picture that he's in. We were watching from a spot where we saw them twice per lap. When they were on the opposite side of the road we got a lot more individual pictures of riders and when they came by on our side of the road we got a lot of field pictures. There were a lot of riders that were easy to find, Sagan was basically invisible. We did end up with a couple of field pictures that have his brother in them.

 

[DonEsteban]

I think the Bora's main fail was when they let Nibali get 20s. Burghardt and/or Oss should had been prepared and should had reacted much sooner; this is more on DS than Sagan himself.

On the second part of Poggio Oss & Sagan did a lot of work, bringing Nibali's lead down to 11s, downhill obviously Sagan did his thing, but Nibali went for the win, so was obviously more aggressive.

The second crucial moment was when Trentin went up and Sagan could not/did not follow. He probably did not want to do too much, signalling others to help ... they did not, so he sat "I am not going to tow you, if you want to win, you better do the work". Kwiatek had no plan B, apparently neither others, so it took time to organize the chase ... the time which was lacking at the end.

Maybe he should had gone with Trentin and worked with him to catch Nibali ... but with Kwiatek on his wheel, most likely he would have not gotten free. And maybe he simply did not have legs...

Anyway, worthy winner ... it is getting more and more likely Sagan will never win MSR (too much riding against him, him getting tired of this and possibly retiring from road racing after his contract expires).

 

[Keram]

In slovak television RTVS they gave interwiev with Sagan and he told he had something with gearings and chain so he didnt sprint properly. I dont know if it is true but Sagan himself told that. He also said something like " Why should I catch attackers everytime by myself". And he told he praise Nibali win.

 

[Eli]

In slovak television RTVS they gave interwiev with Sagan and he told he had something with gearings and chain so he didnt sprint properly. I dont know if it is true but Sagan himself told that. He also said something like " Why should I catch attackers everytime by myself". And he told he praise Nibali win.

Unfortunately for Sagan, He is the strongest rider in the peloton so everybody would be looking at Him to close any dangerous attacks down. It's the same boat Cancellera was in a few years ago at the cobbles classic. Riders simply stuck His wheel like Glue because of who He is.

 

[hazaran]

Sagan: ‘I told myself Vincenzo wins or we’ll catch him’

I wonder if this happens a lot to Sagan, his brain thinking up tautological statements. "I crash or I don't", "Kwiato outsprints me or he doesn't"

 

[Jungle Cycle]

Re: Re:

Once again an overwhelming favorite to win and once again a huge fail. I really hope he gets it right at least in 1 classic this spring.

I don't think it was such a fail. They underestimated nibali yes, but not only sagan and bora, but also other teams and riders. Just look at the panic in peloton when nibali got such a gap so quickly. Bahrain Merida just started the show a little sooner than expected end executed it perfectly.

What I don't get is what was bora doing, at first the attack of burghard and at the same time, they were placed all over the peloton, and imho their only responsibility was to be aligned at the front a either control such attempts from the start or do exactly tha same for Sagan as BM did for Nibali.
They are very strong, but they should get much more organized, because it seems they are seriously overthinking things. They should just do a Boratrain in classics, they have the numbers for that.

same in Strade...

 

[tobydawq]

No Oss, no Burghardt, no Pöstlberger for E3!? What is happening?

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

Once again an overwhelming favorite to win and once again a huge fail. I really hope he gets it right at least in 1 classic this spring.

I don't think it was such a fail. They underestimated nibali yes, but not only sagan and bora, but also other teams and riders. Just look at the panic in peloton when nibali got such a gap so quickly. Bahrain Merida just started the show a little sooner than expected end executed it perfectly.

What I don't get is what was bora doing, at first the attack of burghard and at the same time, they were placed all over the peloton, and imho their only responsibility was to be aligned at the front a either control such attempts from the start or do exactly tha same for Sagan as BM did for Nibali.
They are very strong, but they should get much more organized, because it seems they are seriously overthinking things. They should just do a Boratrain in classics, they have the numbers for that.

same in Strade...

Tbf, I think burghard didn't want to attack but tried to shred the peloton to distance some sprinters. The problem was that his pace was so high that BM, who at that point wanted a sprint with colbrelli, thought "why the hell should we follow this pace if we want colbrelli to be fresh for the sprint?" Bora probably should have set a high pace on the cipressa instead.
But the real question is why everything collapsed when nibali attacked. Where was burghard then, why didn't oss chase immediately, why on earth were they banking on sky to chase although they had 0 interest in a sprint and how is it possible that despite such a strong team sagan himself led the chase on the descent? For sure a lot went wrong for them

 

[tobydawq]

Sagan should have been on the wheel of Oss who should have been on the wheel of Burghardt in the bottom of the Poggio. Simple as that.

 

[Gigs_98]

In slovak television RTVS they gave interwiev with Sagan and he told he had something with gearings and chain so he didnt sprint properly. I dont know if it is true but Sagan himself told that. He also said something like " Why should I catch attackers everytime by myself". And he told he praise Nibali win.

Unfortunately for Sagan, He is the strongest rider in the peloton so everybody would be looking at Him to close any dangerous attacks down. It's the same boat Cancellera was in a few years ago at the cobbles classic. Riders simply stuck His wheel like Glue because of who He is.

Hold on a second. Sagan wasn't criticized because he himself didn't chase nibali, he was criticized because he did chase nibali. His mistake was not to wait for the sprint but to not be sure whether to wait or to ride at the front

 

[Salvarani]

In slovak television RTVS they gave interwiev with Sagan and he told he had something with gearings and chain so he didnt sprint properly. I dont know if it is true but Sagan himself told that. He also said something like " Why should I catch attackers everytime by myself". And he told he praise Nibali win.

Unfortunately for Sagan, He is the strongest rider in the peloton so everybody would be looking at Him to close any dangerous attacks down. It's the same boat Cancellera was in a few years ago at the cobbles classic. Riders simply stuck His wheel like Glue because of who He is.

Hold on a second. Sagan wasn't criticized because he himself didn't chase nibali, he was criticized because he did chase nibali. His mistake was not to wait for the sprint but to not be sure whether to wait or to ride at the front

Maybe he was waiting for the sprint this year, but then he realized Nibali had gotten away with a big gap that was going to be hard to close if he didnt go himself. No other of the sprinters team had anyone chasing, Oss and Burghardt was probably at the end of the peloton etc. So he went on the front on the descent (which I dont think really took that much energy), but then when they came down he could not keep going ofc and pulled to the side and let other teams chase.

Like in the interviews after from many riders etc. They didnt expect Nibali to get away like that. Which is pretty weird considering everyone knowing what Nibali can do. Sagan just had to abandon his initial plan and chase for even a chance to win at that point.

Knowing how it played out. He should have probably followed Nibali and closed that gap on Poggio. A reduced bunch might have ended up sprinting for the victory then. Instead of almost every sprinter being in the bunch right behind Nibali.

But thats the charm of MSR. Very predictable but unpredictable.

 

[tomorrow]

Re:

No Oss, no Burghardt, no Pöstlberger for E3!? What is happening?

Exactly what I was thinking, but they will all be racing in GW. Posti also is in startlist for E3 now. Oss and Burghardt have been much more busy than sagan, so they probably need some rest. Or maybe they are going for Three days of de Panne.
In addition, maybe they just want to test Sagan and let him try to drop the hammer on Oude Kwaremont and do a Cancellara.