Paul Seixas

[Ilmaestro99]

Does anyone want to teach me some stuff about gene doping. Even with a top programme I don't understand how a 19yo does this?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I was right a few days back: new mutant on the block!
The kid is an absolute monster, by far the best U20 I've seen.
One year after being a promising junior, the guy is going toe to toe with the best rider since Merckx (whose clinical reputation is legendary!).

 

[Shakes]

Last year Widar was competition for him. Now it's a different level.

Admittedly, I'm just mostly happy I don't need to look at Pogacar riding away the last 40kms by himself. Two mutants is better than one. (None would be ideal). So pragmatism makes me happy he is here.

 

[peterfin]

13 seconds faster on the redoute for both of the aliens today. Seems legit

In the fastest edition ever (almost 10% faster than the 2nd fastest edition). So it is not that they could relax until blasting the climbs. The others look like amateurs in comparison.

 

[Netserk]

Last year Widar was competition for him. Now it's a different level.

Admittedly, I'm just mostly happy I don't need to look at Pogacar riding away the last 40kms by himself. Two mutants is better than one. (None would be ideal). So pragmatism makes me happy he is here.

he had a bad preparation for avenir last year , and steadily improved throughout the season

but he does indeed improve at a massive pace , catching up quickly to the state of the art

 

[meat puppet]

Does anyone want to teach me some stuff about gene doping. Even with a top programme I don't understand how a 19yo does this?

Rumour has it that he did two things. First, he secretly slipped a couple thousand euros to the mythical Sola and finally got training right. (The prescription was long intervals that everyone from lowly amateurs up does anyway). Second, he started to mainline porridge. And presto, here we are.

 

[Notarobot]

CRISPR. Told you years ago. Its no science fiction, it's being used.

 

[pelotonIQ]

CRISPR. Told you years ago. Its no science fiction, it's being used.

It doesn't look good when you say it's CRISPR without any further explanation or theory to why or how that might be.

 

[Gratemans]

It doesn't look good when you say it's CRISPR without any further explanation or theory to why or how that might be.

Why? He just wants to let us know he thinks it's gene doping.

 

[YellowSocks]

Breschel after talking with Baudin (good friend of Seixas) said Seixas was improving 20 watts each month during winter.

Don't mind me, I'm just tidying up the forum.

 

[Tim Cahill]

He was a rider on the level of Scaroni or Jay Vine in October. He was expected to improve a lot absolutely, the next Tour winner in a few years time perhaps. As we said at the time he had been doing everything correctly and diligently for years. A few months later he is churning out some of the best climbing performances of all time.

As always, with now and with 2024, you look at the rate of change, it is a total fantasy for the body to make such training adaptations naturally in such a short period of time for an already supreme athlete. I'm extremely curious as to the method, it's not like they can just mainline EPO like they did in the mid 90s, not with the restrictions in place.

 

[canina82]

He was a rider on the level of Scaroni or Jay Vine in October. He was expected to improve a lot absolutely, the next Tour winner in a few years time perhaps. As we said at the time he had been doing everything correctly and diligently for years. A few months later he is churning out some of the best climbing performances of all time.

As always, with now and with 2024, you look at the rate of change, it is a total fantasy for the body to make such training adaptations naturally in such a short period of time for an already supreme athlete. I'm extremely curious as to the method, it's not like they can just mainline EPO like they did in the mid 90s, not with the restrictions in place.

Pogacar was the best rider in the world before 2024. He was very dominant until his crash in LBL.
Seixas finished 9' behind Pogacar in Rwanda, was beaten by Widar in mountain stages and was fighting with Scaronni in GdL. The leap Seixas took was way bigger than any jump in performance Pogacar made in his career.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Someone finally makes a considered and articulate post in the clinic and within 5 minutes the discussion gets reduced to 'by contrast my favourite rider is totally cleanz'

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Someone finally makes a considered and articulate post in the clinic and within 5 minutes the discussion gets reduced to 'by contrast my favourite rider is totally cleanz'

I thought about it for a moment, and going from Seixas level at the end of last year to nearly Pogacar level might actually be a bigger jump than the one Pogi made in 2024. Not withstanding that "but rider x is more cleanz" is usually annoying.

 

[YellowSocks]

Pogacar was the best rider in the world before 2024. He was very dominant until his crash in LBL.
Seixas finished 9' behind Pogacar in Rwanda, was beaten by Widar in mountain stages and was fighting with Scaronni in GdL. The leap Seixas took was way bigger than any jump in performance Pogacar made in his career.

Is this really the new debate: is Seixas more doped than Pogacar?

Anyway, Pogacar has opened a big door for other riders. If they don’t catch them, they won’t catch us either, so let's go.

I still wonder why they go so far, why they don't care for a second about credibility*. Seixas is very young, they had plenty of time. They could have chosen a measured path, developing a credible career. Initially, Decath’s plan was called 'Tour de France 2030'. And then suddenly, only a few months after they announced the plan, there is a wild UFO flying through my living room. Sigh...

* On second thought, reading some comments on this forum, I do understand. A majority of cycling fans are their best advocates and just want fireworks.

 

[Tim Cahill]

I thought about it for a moment, and going from Seixas level at the end of last year to nearly Pogacar level might actually be a bigger jump than the one Pogi made in 2024. Not withstanding that "but rider x is more cleanz" is usually annoying.

Yeah sure, though in his defence Seixas is a lot younger so you would expect at a greater room for growth, but not in a few months. I could've also said Froome post-Tour of Poland, Nicholas Prodhomme 2025 or Padun as examples. The point is that he's taken a quantifiable leap in such a short period of time that is difficult to explain away, gains in power that you would expect an 18 month old toddler to make when he starts walking.

A couple of things were interesting, I've looked around but some on here might have better answers.

He spent 2 months at altitude before the season started, rather than the 3-4 week protocol of other teams, what is the purpose of this? This is where the leap occurred. As far as I'm aware any effect after a month is minimal and is often offset by a lack of sleep quality. Pogacar and Vingegaard for example usually do 2 camps of 3-4 weeks a season, with the second one having a greater effect. I've seen no explanation for the change, other than 'he lives like a monk!'.

Why is he not getting any worse? Adaptions do not last a long time, which is why people usually go back after the Dauphine and stay as close to the race as possible. He did roughly the same w/kg for over a minute longer on La Redoute than he had done a few days prior in a much easier race, there is no discernible dip that you would usually see over a span of 2.5 months, especially from a 19 year old, no periodization. You would expected someone so young to be battered by these races, but if anything he looks fresher now than he did in Algarve.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

I thought about it for a moment, and going from Seixas level at the end of last year to nearly Pogacar level might actually be a bigger jump than the one Pogi made in 2024. Not withstanding that "but rider x is more cleanz" is usually annoying.

I don't even really disagree with canina's point. Maybe I overreacted a little bit, but sometimes on the clinic it's like there is only one doper, and it is he who is the most over the top at any given moment. Discussions get framed that sexass is now the villain, that pocagar is suddenly fine in comparison. It annoys me a little bit.

Brings back memories of being accused of being a Vingegard fanboy for posting in povagar's clinic thread.

Yeah sure, though in his defence Seixas is a lot younger so you would expect at a greater room for growth, but not in a few months. I could've also said Froome post-Tour of Poland, Nicholas Prodhomme 2025 or Padun as examples. The point is that he's taken a quantifiable leap in such a short period of time that is difficult to explain away, gains in power that you would expect an 18 month old toddler to make when he starts walking.

A couple of things were interesting, I've looked around but some on here might have better answers.

He spent 2 months at altitude before the season started, rather than the 3-4 week protocol of other teams, what is the purpose of this? This is where the leap occurred. As far as I'm aware any effect after a month is minimal and is often offset by a lack of sleep quality. Pogacar and Vingegaard for example usually do 2 camps of 3-4 weeks a season, with the second one having a greater effect. I've seen no explanation for the change, other than 'he lives like a monk!'.

Why is he not getting any worse? Adaptions do not last a long time, which is why people usually go back after the Dauphine and stay as close to the race as possible. He did roughly the same w/kg for over a minute longer on La Redoute than he had done a few days prior in a much easier race, there is no discernible dip that you would usually see over a span of 2.5 months, especially from a 19 year old, no periodization. You would expected someone so young to be battered by these races, but if anything he looks fresher now than he did in Algarve.

It is certainly the most insane transformation yet and the most interesting to speculate about

You wonder how much of it is planned out months/years in advance, to create the perfect rider, and how much of it is spontaneous or even accidental.

There are several things that have happened in the past few years that got us here. The watt inflation during covid. The increase of new fans who don't know the history of the sport and the limits of natural performance. The increase in young riders dominating due to professionalism trickling down to kids teams. Then the extreme financial dominance of UAE creating this absurd version of pocagar that dominates everything, to the point where new fans just think that is normal.

It has all created the perfect situation to take an 18 year old rider on a team with lots of money, take advantage of his youth, and make him too big to fail.

Let's see how it goes in the next few years. UAE don't send their young riders (del toro, cristen, morgado, arrieta etc) to altitude in January because they worry about them burning out. For all we criticise them for, they definitely look after their riders. Big contrast with sexass and his entourage.

I am fascinated by the methods as well. Some riders still superpeak. Some riders are flying without any periodisation. Some riders obsessively need a 3 week altitude camp to perform at their best. Some riders never do altitude. Now you have riders going to altitude for longer and others like uae doing less altitude than before.

Apparently the whole point of altitude was a natural, temporary increase in oxygen carrying capacity of the red blood cells for a couple of weeks after you came down. But riders now go in January and February to prepare for their big goals in April. 6 weeks after their altitude camp they are still getting better.

It's like everything you learn about sports science as a fan and amateur athlete stops applying to these guys.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It's like everything you learn about sports science as a fan and amateur athlete stops applying to these guys.

X-men apply science in a different way. Normal people die due to CO, Pogiman and Fisherman just get stronger.

 

[YellowSocks]

No wonder why nobody applied for the UCI presidency. Who would want such a job?
With all (t)his mess to clean up, Lappartient will end up being a lifetime president.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

No wonder why nobody applied for the UCI presidency. Who would want such a job?
With all (t)his mess to clean up, Lappartient will end up being a lifetime president.

A lifetime of selfies

 

[MountainGoatW]

Pogacar was the best rider in the world before 2024. He was very dominant until his crash in LBL.
Seixas finished 9' behind Pogacar in Rwanda, was beaten by Widar in mountain stages and was fighting with Scaronni in GdL. The leap Seixas took was way bigger than any jump in performance Pogacar made in his career.

Poggie took the first massive leap already in 18/19 after starting to work with Gianett&UAE, at the same age as Seixas is now. You need to start building the narrative early, so you make the "generational" talent thing beliavable. Pauls leap is as outrageous as has poggies been, but at least he was considered a big talent before this season too. Not like the reasonably talented stage racer, who does it all with ease and record breaking power these days.

Would really want to know what are they on, maybe the gene doping is the best explanation. Well don't fully trust the petrostate owned Colnago either, which they bought very conviniently at the same time of pogs magical rise. Maybe Decathlon has learned to play the game also.

 

[Unchained]

No wonder why nobody applied for the UCI presidency. Who would want such a job?
With all (t)his mess to clean up, Lappartient will end up being a lifetime president.

If you take your point of view one, two, three ...steps further.. The person wanting an absolutely @@@@@@@@ job, what kind of person is running the organization? What part of any Western economy offers a job and nobody takes it? What is the effect on races , riders, sponsors, governments from having sub standard management at the UCI?
Lance Armstrong hasn't raced his bike since 2011, he reluctantly came clean in 2013. There is universal agreement that he damaged bike racing like nobody before him, and hopefully nobody can repeat his overall destruction to the sport.
It's debated what was day 1..but there is widespread of @january 2013...the UCI had a toxic mess that needed immediate emergency response.
It was the UCI that had( has) the responsibility for repair, replacing, rebuilding bike racing credibility.
They have done nothing.
Just the basics.. Hey sponsors, fans, governments, teams, fellow racers, past, present and future.. here's what went wrong.. Here's why we didn't catch Armstrong and others, here's what we are doing to fix it, ensure it doesn't happen in the future.. Here we are in 2026 and UCI still relies on drug testing that can take years to catch cheaters..UCI using testing, management structures that no other sports use or would want to!!!! If you have a job opening to run major league football, cricket, rugby, basketball, baseball, car racing, tennis, golf,ect..you have dozens of extremely motivated and qualified candidates fighting for the jobs..bike racing could get a better manager at the train station bathroom or hire someone who guzzles booze at the bar..and still probably get more, better results than current management. Paul Seixas has given the sport a shot in the arm..given millions something, someone positive to focus on and any momentum that a rider like Pogacar or Seixas, a few other young riders..all the interest and possibility is cancelled out by the skepticism, horrible history, bad messaging and mismanagement at the UCI..
The UCI should see as a top priority to build a reputation for the sport so people don't doubt if riders like Seixas are clean..
And just when you have heard most angles for cheating.. Now genetic engineering is offered up..maybe Seixas has manipulated his genes for fame and some small fortune..

 

[Gratemans]

Anyway, Pogacar has opened a big door for other riders. If they don’t catch them, they won’t catch us either, so let's go.

I hadn't really thought of this yet, but yeah, that's probably it. It's exactly what happened in the 90s with EPO, and how the Omerta started. Because it wasn't all a big planned conspiracy, it just kind of organically grew in exactly the way you described.

Brings back memories of being accused of being a Vingegard fanboy for posting in povagar's clinic thread.

Yeah, in my experience there's two kinds: people who are fan of cycling, and people who are fan of cyclists.
Let's just say there's a big stylistic difference in how they tend to discuss on this forum.