Paul Seixas

[Ilmaestro99]

Does anyone want to teach me some stuff about gene doping. Even with a top programme I don't understand how a 19yo does this?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I was right a few days back: new mutant on the block!
The kid is an absolute monster, by far the best U20 I've seen.
One year after being a promising junior, the guy is going toe to toe with the best rider since Merckx (whose clinical reputation is legendary!).

 

[Shakes]

Last year Widar was competition for him. Now it's a different level.

Admittedly, I'm just mostly happy I don't need to look at Pogacar riding away the last 40kms by himself. Two mutants is better than one. (None would be ideal). So pragmatism makes me happy he is here.

 

[peterfin]

13 seconds faster on the redoute for both of the aliens today. Seems legit

In the fastest edition ever (almost 10% faster than the 2nd fastest edition). So it is not that they could relax until blasting the climbs. The others look like amateurs in comparison.

 

[Netserk]

Last year Widar was competition for him. Now it's a different level.

Admittedly, I'm just mostly happy I don't need to look at Pogacar riding away the last 40kms by himself. Two mutants is better than one. (None would be ideal). So pragmatism makes me happy he is here.

he had a bad preparation for avenir last year , and steadily improved throughout the season

but he does indeed improve at a massive pace , catching up quickly to the state of the art

 

[meat puppet]

Does anyone want to teach me some stuff about gene doping. Even with a top programme I don't understand how a 19yo does this?

Rumour has it that he did two things. First, he secretly slipped a couple thousand euros to the mythical Sola and finally got training right. (The prescription was long intervals that everyone from lowly amateurs up does anyway). Second, he started to mainline porridge. And presto, here we are.

 

[Notarobot]

CRISPR. Told you years ago. Its no science fiction, it's being used.

 

[pelotonIQ]

CRISPR. Told you years ago. Its no science fiction, it's being used.

It doesn't look good when you say it's CRISPR without any further explanation or theory to why or how that might be.

 

[Gratemans]

It doesn't look good when you say it's CRISPR without any further explanation or theory to why or how that might be.

Why? He just wants to let us know he thinks it's gene doping.

 

[YellowSocks]

Breschel after talking with Baudin (good friend of Seixas) said Seixas was improving 20 watts each month during winter.

Don't mind me, I'm just tidying up the forum.

 

[Tim Cahill]

He was a rider on the level of Scaroni or Jay Vine in October. He was expected to improve a lot absolutely, the next Tour winner in a few years time perhaps. As we said at the time he had been doing everything correctly and diligently for years. A few months later he is churning out some of the best climbing performances of all time.

As always, with now and with 2024, you look at the rate of change, it is a total fantasy for the body to make such training adaptations naturally in such a short period of time for an already supreme athlete. I'm extremely curious as to the method, it's not like they can just mainline EPO like they did in the mid 90s, not with the restrictions in place.

 

[canina82]

He was a rider on the level of Scaroni or Jay Vine in October. He was expected to improve a lot absolutely, the next Tour winner in a few years time perhaps. As we said at the time he had been doing everything correctly and diligently for years. A few months later he is churning out some of the best climbing performances of all time.

As always, with now and with 2024, you look at the rate of change, it is a total fantasy for the body to make such training adaptations naturally in such a short period of time for an already supreme athlete. I'm extremely curious as to the method, it's not like they can just mainline EPO like they did in the mid 90s, not with the restrictions in place.

Pogacar was the best rider in the world before 2024. He was very dominant until his crash in LBL.
Seixas finished 9' behind Pogacar in Rwanda, was beaten by Widar in mountain stages and was fighting with Scaronni in GdL. The leap Seixas took was way bigger than any jump in performance Pogacar made in his career.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Someone finally makes a considered and articulate post in the clinic and within 5 minutes the discussion gets reduced to 'by contrast my favourite rider is totally cleanz'

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Someone finally makes a considered and articulate post in the clinic and within 5 minutes the discussion gets reduced to 'by contrast my favourite rider is totally cleanz'

I thought about it for a moment, and going from Seixas level at the end of last year to nearly Pogacar level might actually be a bigger jump than the one Pogi made in 2024. Not withstanding that "but rider x is more cleanz" is usually annoying.

 

[YellowSocks]

Pogacar was the best rider in the world before 2024. He was very dominant until his crash in LBL.
Seixas finished 9' behind Pogacar in Rwanda, was beaten by Widar in mountain stages and was fighting with Scaronni in GdL. The leap Seixas took was way bigger than any jump in performance Pogacar made in his career.

Is this really the new debate: is Seixas more doped than Pogacar?

Anyway, Pogacar has opened a big door for other riders. If they don’t catch them, they won’t catch us either, so let's go.

I still wonder why they go so far, why they don't care for a second about credibility*. Seixas is very young, they had plenty of time. They could have chosen a measured path, developing a credible career. Initially, Decath’s plan was called 'Tour de France 2030'. And then suddenly, only a few months after they announced the plan, there is a wild UFO flying through my living room. Sigh...

* On second thought, reading some comments on this forum, I do understand. A majority of cycling fans are their best advocates and just want fireworks.

 

[Tim Cahill]

I thought about it for a moment, and going from Seixas level at the end of last year to nearly Pogacar level might actually be a bigger jump than the one Pogi made in 2024. Not withstanding that "but rider x is more cleanz" is usually annoying.

Yeah sure, though in his defence Seixas is a lot younger so you would expect at a greater room for growth, but not in a few months. I could've also said Froome post-Tour of Poland, Nicholas Prodhomme 2025 or Padun as examples. The point is that he's taken a quantifiable leap in such a short period of time that is difficult to explain away, gains in power that you would expect an 18 month old toddler to make when he starts walking.

A couple of things were interesting, I've looked around but some on here might have better answers.

He spent 2 months at altitude before the season started, rather than the 3-4 week protocol of other teams, what is the purpose of this? This is where the leap occurred. As far as I'm aware any effect after a month is minimal and is often offset by a lack of sleep quality. Pogacar and Vingegaard for example usually do 2 camps of 3-4 weeks a season, with the second one having a greater effect. I've seen no explanation for the change, other than 'he lives like a monk!'.

Why is he not getting any worse? Adaptions do not last a long time, which is why people usually go back after the Dauphine and stay as close to the race as possible. He did roughly the same w/kg for over a minute longer on La Redoute than he had done a few days prior in a much easier race, there is no discernible dip that you would usually see over a span of 2.5 months, especially from a 19 year old, no periodization. You would expected someone so young to be battered by these races, but if anything he looks fresher now than he did in Algarve.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

I thought about it for a moment, and going from Seixas level at the end of last year to nearly Pogacar level might actually be a bigger jump than the one Pogi made in 2024. Not withstanding that "but rider x is more cleanz" is usually annoying.

I don't even really disagree with canina's point. Maybe I overreacted a little bit, but sometimes on the clinic it's like there is only one doper, and it is he who is the most over the top at any given moment. Discussions get framed that sexass is now the villain, that pocagar is suddenly fine in comparison. It annoys me a little bit.

Brings back memories of being accused of being a Vingegard fanboy for posting in povagar's clinic thread.

Yeah sure, though in his defence Seixas is a lot younger so you would expect at a greater room for growth, but not in a few months. I could've also said Froome post-Tour of Poland, Nicholas Prodhomme 2025 or Padun as examples. The point is that he's taken a quantifiable leap in such a short period of time that is difficult to explain away, gains in power that you would expect an 18 month old toddler to make when he starts walking.

A couple of things were interesting, I've looked around but some on here might have better answers.

He spent 2 months at altitude before the season started, rather than the 3-4 week protocol of other teams, what is the purpose of this? This is where the leap occurred. As far as I'm aware any effect after a month is minimal and is often offset by a lack of sleep quality. Pogacar and Vingegaard for example usually do 2 camps of 3-4 weeks a season, with the second one having a greater effect. I've seen no explanation for the change, other than 'he lives like a monk!'.

Why is he not getting any worse? Adaptions do not last a long time, which is why people usually go back after the Dauphine and stay as close to the race as possible. He did roughly the same w/kg for over a minute longer on La Redoute than he had done a few days prior in a much easier race, there is no discernible dip that you would usually see over a span of 2.5 months, especially from a 19 year old, no periodization. You would expected someone so young to be battered by these races, but if anything he looks fresher now than he did in Algarve.

It is certainly the most insane transformation yet and the most interesting to speculate about

You wonder how much of it is planned out months/years in advance, to create the perfect rider, and how much of it is spontaneous or even accidental.

There are several things that have happened in the past few years that got us here. The watt inflation during covid. The increase of new fans who don't know the history of the sport and the limits of natural performance. The increase in young riders dominating due to professionalism trickling down to kids teams. Then the extreme financial dominance of UAE creating this absurd version of pocagar that dominates everything, to the point where new fans just think that is normal.

It has all created the perfect situation to take an 18 year old rider on a team with lots of money, take advantage of his youth, and make him too big to fail.

Let's see how it goes in the next few years. UAE don't send their young riders (del toro, cristen, morgado, arrieta etc) to altitude in January because they worry about them burning out. For all we criticise them for, they definitely look after their riders. Big contrast with sexass and his entourage.

I am fascinated by the methods as well. Some riders still superpeak. Some riders are flying without any periodisation. Some riders obsessively need a 3 week altitude camp to perform at their best. Some riders never do altitude. Now you have riders going to altitude for longer and others like uae doing less altitude than before.

Apparently the whole point of altitude was a natural, temporary increase in oxygen carrying capacity of the red blood cells for a couple of weeks after you came down. But riders now go in January and February to prepare for their big goals in April. 6 weeks after their altitude camp they are still getting better.

It's like everything you learn about sports science as a fan and amateur athlete stops applying to these guys.