Phil Liggert claims Federal investigators paid people to lie about Armstrong

[mewmewmew13]

Instead of excusing some old f@rT's babble I think Phil needs to be called on this one.
Inexcusable. So is Armstrong's conduct.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Playing Devil's Advocate, but isn't that what is going on on the other side as well?



Again, as above, if you had just made a sweet deal to testify (he is supposedly one of the witnesses), wouldn't you be put out by someone making claims against your camp?

I think Phil is absolutely nuts to make these kinds of statements, whether he believes them or not. As a 'journalist', he has just inserted himself in the ongoing story...I'm pretty sure that is not being objective...may we should ask Keith Olbermann if that was a good move.

'Sweet deal' implies something not quite above board.
We are talking legal give and take here...100% the way it is supposed to work in our legal system.

Was it 'illegal' because I was offered a plea deal of 'obstructed windshield' for a speeding ticket by the court in order to save my points on my license??
Of course not...our legal system runs this way.

 

[wagman67]

'Sweet deal' implies something not quite above board.
We are talking legal give and take here...100% the way it is supposed to work in our legal system.

Was it 'illegal' because I was offered a plea deal of 'obstructed windshield' for a speeding ticket by the court in order to save my points on my license??
Of course not...our legal system runs this way.

'Sweet Deal' only implies what it has always referenced....someone getting a better deal than someone else. If I gave $100 dollars for the exact same thing someone else had to pay $150 for, I got a 'Sweet Deal'. No need to read to deep into that one...it is just a figure of speech.

Your reference to a plea deal, doesn't make it any less 'Sweet' if reported deals are true. But, I do see you point and consider it very valid.

 

[aphronesis]

'Sweet deal' implies something not quite above board.
We are talking legal give and take here...100% the way it is supposed to work in our legal system.

Was it 'illegal' because I was offered a plea deal of 'obstructed windshield' for a speeding ticket by the court in order to save my points on my license??
Of course not...our legal system runs this way.

No, it is not "illegal," but that give and take does then beg the question, and more specifically, the justification and motivation of the "illegality" of speeding itself if it can be rendered substitutable for other offenses.

And so on.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Phil's statements are unfortunate without some kind of evidence to support the claims.

When has evidence ever stopped you from proclaiming Wonderboy's falsely accused of widespread fraud and various conspiracies?

This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say statements like Phil's do more harm than good. Even the zigmeister intuitively understand the rhetoric is getting too big an ask for suspending disbelief. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

This story had to come out of Pat's office because it's crafted as well as some of the stuff released with Pat's signature on it. He's got JV nipping at his heels with well-played anti-doping rhetoric, Hein's still covering for Wonderboy to the point of risking IOC recognition. It doesn't matter that it's ridiculous.

The lies just keep getting bigger and it's going to backfire. It's taken way too long to get to this point, but now it's really starting to test the faithful.

 

[mewmewmew13]

No, it is not "illegal," but that give and take does then beg the question, and more specifically, the justification and motivation of the "illegality" of speeding itself if it can be rendered substitutable for other offenses.

And so on.

And as we all know mr Armstrong was offered the same 'deal' to come talk to USADA in the first place which he declined. Then went on to rant about how UNFAIR the process was and how he was 'being singled out'.

Complete BS and false 'victimization' on his part and we all see that as well.

Who does he think he is fooling with his games.
He's a coward.

 

[MacRoadie]

Maybe John Tesh will come back and save us Yanks from having to watch the P&P show during the Tour.

Ugh.

The one thing worse than Al Trautwig...

 

[BotanyBay]

Well, so far, both Velonation and NYVelocity have politely ignored this. Don't wanna cross good-ol Phil and get disinvited from a trade-show party in Vegas, etc.

Wusses.

 

[DirtyWorks]

No, it is not "illegal," but that give and take does then beg the question, and more specifically, the justification and motivation of the "illegality" of speeding itself if it can be rendered substitutable for other offenses.

And so on.

What is "the question" left unsaid here?

This is another failed attempt at "one set of unenforced rules for our beloved, and another set for the rest of us." Which, I will never understand because it is contrary to the intent of the U.S. political system. Note well, intent not actuality.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Well, so far, both Velonation and NYVelocity have politely ignored this. Don't wanna cross good-ol Phil and get disinvited from a trade-show party in Vegas, etc.

Wusses.

Check @nyvelocity on twitter....

But on a serious note, @PhilLiggett implied that @Vaughters and the others were either paid or coerced into falsely testifying,...

 

[aphronesis]

And as we all know mr Armstrong was offered the same 'deal' to come talk to USADA in the first place which he declined. Then went on to rant about how UNFAIR the process was and how he was 'being singled out'.

Complete BS and false 'victimization' on his part and we all see that as well.

Who does he think he is fooling with his games.
He's a coward.

His manipulation of public sympathies and tendencies is exhaustively documented. And will only continue to be more so.

Coward is not a useful word in this instance. I think.

That said, characterizing and psychologizing the "individual" in this instance is not remotely useful or interesting to me unless you balance it against the fact that a deal is said to have been on the table. Specifically that you factor against an authority that makes universal claims on the one hand, but is willing to barter those claims away in exchange for confession and information. And then ask the question that if there are deals to be made in this realm why should one even care when in that position? But more importantly, what are the economics of "confessing" in today's society. Maybe your cowardice comes back in through that prism.

 

[D-Queued]

Can someone provide an email address for Phil and/or his employer?

Thanks.

Dave.

 

[BotanyBay]

Check @nyvelocity on twitter....

But on a serious note, @PhilLiggett implied that @Vaughters and the others were either paid or coerced into falsely testifying,...

Which is why he needs to be called-out in a far more formal way than twittering.

 

[RichWalk]

Check @nyvelocity on twitter....

But on a serious note, @PhilLiggett implied that @Vaughters and the others were either paid or coerced into falsely testifying,...

far more than one reputation left in tatters after this finally goes south, I suspect Lance has been asked to keep himself public & vocal just to distract attention away from what really needs addressing, namely the re-org or closure of the UCI.

 

[D-Queued]

Which is why he needs to be called-out in a far more formal way than twittering.

Address please.

Dave.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Can someone provide an email address for Phil and/or his employer?

Thanks.

Dave.

p.mcquaid@uci.ch h.verdruggen@sportaccord.com

 

[Semper Fidelis]

No, it is not "illegal," but that give and take does then beg the question, and more specifically, the justification and motivation of the "illegality" of speeding itself if it can be rendered substitutable for other offenses.

And so on.

It really does not matter does it?
I mean this old fart is past his days of needing to use “VEET for men” and is tooting the gin and tonic horn.

If you read twitter (which I admit is like trying to watch two dogs getting it) you would think that it is about December the 12th 2012. Or a man on fire.
Do yourself a favor and make sure not to be like me,,,,,I actually tried and am trying to be a part of that vanity square.

Anyhow the comedy of this old man talking out the nether regions is almost as fun as watching folks flail about in agony over it.

 

[aphronesis]

What is "the question" left unsaid here?

This is another failed attempt at "one set of unenforced rules for our beloved, and another set for the rest of us." Which, I will never understand because it is contrary to the intent of the U.S. political system. Note well, intent not actuality.

The question, "Rigs," comes after the emphatic "and more specifically," "the justification and motivation....etc." Sorry, I should have put in a WHAT there so you would have known where the question is.

Frankly, no, this has nothing personal to do with your beloved, betrothed, etc.,
It is rather a general question about the economics of criminality as determined and sanctioned by a given society. Mew's post lays all of that out.

Tygart's offer to trade two tours for bigger gains does exactly the same. It's an economy of emotional information. Nothing more.

 

[D-Queued]

p.mcquaid@uci.ch h.verdruggen@olympic.org

Funny!

I have their email addresses, though. You should have added Lance's!

Dave.

 

[aphronesis]

Anyhow the comedy of this old man talking out the nether regions is almost as fun as watching folks flail about in agony over it.

Indeed sir.

 

[MacRoadie]

h.verdruggen@sportaccord.com

Freudian Slip?

 

[mastersracer]

Orchestrated to let his cronies do his dirty work while LA takes the high road?

https://www.livestrong.org/now/?s_src=email&s_subsrc=lancevideo

(he's now doing the George Bush eye squint thing - is this a Texan tick - could also be his 'tell' revealing when he's lying)

 

[BotanyBay]

Address please.

Dave.

Don't email Pat. Email the cycling media. I know Velonews won't say a peep, but the other rags should put Phil on Blast (in actual articles). Peeps, don't let this die on the vine. It's hot stuff.

 

[mewmewmew13]

p.mcquaid@uci.ch h.verdruggen@sportaccord.com

verdruggen? Lol

 

[MarkvW]

Well, so far, both Velonation and NYVelocity have politely ignored this. Don't wanna cross good-ol Phil and get disinvited from a trade-show party in Vegas, etc.

Wusses.

Phil is incredibly vulnerable to ridicule. And there's lots of ridiculous video of him talking . . . If I was going to comment, I'd take the time to do it right.

Expressions of outrage are just blah, blah, blah, but ridicule--especially good ridicule--is devastating.