Philippe Gilbert Discussion Thread

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

I guess a lot depends on how you rate certain races/distributions. For me Bettini is still clearly ahead

How?

I can see that there’s an argument, but I can only understand putting Bettini “clearly” ahead if you think that the Olympic RR is more important than the Monuments. And anyone who thinks that hates cycling and thinks that it’s a trivial sport with no fan base or traditions of its own.

I clearly hate cycling

 

[Velolover2]

When ranking prestige, shouldn't the combination of all 5 monuments be ranked the highest? Like a royal straight flush.

Having four San Remo's isn't as great as having 2 Sanremo's, 1 Roubaix and 1 Ronde.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

I guess a lot depends on how you rate certain races/distributions. For me Bettini is still clearly ahead

Well Bettini has two more big wins than Gilbert but he is massively lacking wins in the non monument classics. Also although he won many different races other than Gilbert he never had big success on the cobbles and that really is what sets Gilbert apart from the rest.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

I guess a lot depends on how you rate certain races/distributions. For me Bettini is still clearly ahead

How?

I can see that there’s an argument, but I can only understand putting Bettini “clearly” ahead if you think that the Olympic RR is more important than the Monuments. And anyone who thinks that hates cycling and thinks that it’s a trivial sport with no fan base or traditions of its own.

I clearly hate cycling

I knew it!

The Olympics is the main event in sports with no mass following of their own, sports nobody cares about outside of an occasional festival of jingoism. In sports with an actual fan base that follows the sport on its own merits, the sport’s own big events and traditions matter more than borrowed glory. The Olympic RR is a career defining win for a rider like Samuel Sanchez, someone who won nothing of real substance. For a Bettini, it’s a nice bauble.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

I guess a lot depends on how you rate certain races/distributions. For me Bettini is still clearly ahead

Well Bettini has two more big wins than Gilbert but he is massively lacking wins in the non monument classics. Also although he won many different races other than Gilbert he never had big success on the cobbles and that really is what sets Gilbert apart from the rest.

Did win Sanremo though. 2 extra major championships is worth more to me than slightly more favorable distribution. And it's not like Bettini didn't win anything outside the monuments either.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

When ranking prestige, shouldn't the combination of all 5 monuments be ranked the highest? Like a royal straight flush.

Having four San Remo's isn't as great as having 2 Sanremo's, 1 Roubaix and 1 Ronde.

Having 4 San Remo's isn't as great as having 1 Roubaix.

 

[Velolover2]

Re: Re:

When ranking prestige, shouldn't the combination of all 5 monuments be ranked the highest? Like a royal straight flush.

Having four San Remo's isn't as great as having 2 Sanremo's, 1 Roubaix and 1 Ronde.

Having 4 San Remo's isn't as great as having 1 Roubaix.

Ouch. :lol:

 

[Pantani_lives]

Gilbert is the Agassi of cycling. Agassi didn't win as many slams as Sampras, but he won all four of them. Gilbert didn't win as many monuments as Boonen or Cancellara, but winning four different ones makes him a more versatile rider. And how exciting to watch!

 

[Saint Unix]

As someone who's almost hitting 30 I never thought I'd see a rider win both of the hilly monuments and the cobbled monuments in my lifetime. An absolutely insane achievement in any era, of course, but something I considered absolutely impossible to do in this era of specialization. I was sure Sean Kelly's three podiums at Ronde were as close as anyone was ever going to get, and the last we would see of riders being that competitive over such a broad spectrum of one day races.

 

[Akuryo]

Re:

As someone who's almost hitting 30 I never thought I'd see a rider win both of the hilly monuments and the cobbled monuments in my lifetime. An absolutely insane achievement in any era, of course, but something I considered absolutely impossible to do in this era of specialization. I was sure Sean Kelly's three podiums at Ronde were as close as anyone was ever going to get, and the last we would see of riders being that competitive over such a broad spectrum of one day races.

Even more so since Gilbert was never known to be the fastest. Kelly could outsprint most people even on flat stages while Gilbert even in his prime only packed a decent acceleration but never high end speed.

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

As someone who's almost hitting 30 I never thought I'd see a rider win both of the hilly monuments and the cobbled monuments in my lifetime. An absolutely insane achievement in any era, of course, but something I considered absolutely impossible to do in this era of specialization. I was sure Sean Kelly's three podiums at Ronde were as close as anyone was ever going to get, and the last we would see of riders being that competitive over such a broad spectrum of one day races.

I was your age when Kelly was still racing! :lol: I love and hate and enjoy comparing riders of the same era, riders of different eras...

I love that PG is sub 70 kg winning a race that many would argue is only for the 77 kg+ guys (disclaimer: I don't know what PG's exact weight was heading into today).

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

As someone who's almost hitting 30 I never thought I'd see a rider win both of the hilly monuments and the cobbled monuments in my lifetime. An absolutely insane achievement in any era, of course, but something I considered absolutely impossible to do in this era of specialization. I was sure Sean Kelly's three podiums at Ronde were as close as anyone was ever going to get, and the last we would see of riders being that competitive over such a broad spectrum of one day races.

I was your age when Kelly was still racing! :lol: I love and hate and enjoy comparing riders of the same era, riders of different eras...

I love that PG is sub 70 kg winning a race that many would argue is only for the 77 kg+ guys (disclaimer: I don't know what PG's exact weight was heading into today).

Official weight listed for PG is 69KG, so I'd say that has to be close. He's also the lightest rider to win Flanders.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

As someone who's almost hitting 30 I never thought I'd see a rider win both of the hilly monuments and the cobbled monuments in my lifetime. An absolutely insane achievement in any era, of course, but something I considered absolutely impossible to do in this era of specialization. I was sure Sean Kelly's three podiums at Ronde were as close as anyone was ever going to get, and the last we would see of riders being that competitive over such a broad spectrum of one day races.

I was your age when Kelly was still racing! :lol: I love and hate and enjoy comparing riders of the same era, riders of different eras...

I love that PG is sub 70 kg winning a race that many would argue is only for the 77 kg+ guys (disclaimer: I don't know what PG's exact weight was heading into today).

Official weight listed for PG is 69KG, so I'd say that has to be close. He's also the lightest rider to win Flanders.

Isn't Bettiol listed as u70 too?

 

[SafeBet]

A true legend of this sport.

 

[PremierAndrew]

A poll between Valverde Gilbert Bettini Cancellara and Boonen is definitely due in a couple of years when PhilGil and Bala hang up their wheels.

I imagine Sagan might be another name to throw in the ring once he's got a few more major wins under his belt, arguably already is (triple rainbow goes a long way)

 

[Blanco]

The best one-day riders of the Century are/were Bettini, Freire, Boonen, Cancellara, Valverde, Gilbert and Sagan.
Order, for me, after this spectacular Gilbert's win, is:
Bettini
Boonen
Gilbert
Cancellara
Valverde
Freire
Sagan

 

[tobydawq]

I can't say my true opinion about putting Freire above Sagan without being disrespectful.

Yes, Freire won three WC and three MSR but that's it, really. Apart from a Gent-Wevelgem and Paris-Tours. Vattenfall if you want to add that. No top 10 in other monuments than MSR, no presence in races other than just being there for the end and sprint. Except for Amstel in 2012 where he actually did a good attack.

The only special thing about his career is three WCs but Sagan has that as well (for Slovakia, not Spain) and the rest of his history is so much more interesting, impressive and influential than Freire's

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

I guess a lot depends on how you rate certain races/distributions. For me Bettini is still clearly ahead

How?

I can see that there’s an argument, but I can only understand putting Bettini “clearly” ahead if you think that the Olympic RR is more important than the Monuments. And anyone who thinks that hates cycling and thinks that it’s a trivial sport with no fan base or traditions of its own.

I clearly hate cycling

I knew it!

The Olympics is the main event in sports with no mass following of their own, sports nobody cares about outside of an occasional festival of jingoism. In sports with an actual fan base that follows the sport on its own merits, the sport’s own big events and traditions matter more than borrowed glory. The Olympic RR is a career defining win for a rider like Samuel Sanchez, someone who won nothing of real substance. For a Bettini, it’s a nice bauble.

It's defining for Greg Van Avermaet too. He is always labeled as former Olympic champion, not former Ronde Van Vlaanderen champion. Olympics win is a dream for many cyclist, almost every, and although I'm not sure it's bigger race than Monuments, it certainly isn't a lesser race!

 

[Blanco]

Re:

I can't say my true opinion about putting Freire above Sagan without being disrespectful.

Yes, Freire won three WC and three MSR but that's it, really. Apart from a Gent-Wevelgem and Paris-Tours. Vattenfall if you want to add that. No top 10 in other monuments than MSR, no presence in races other than just being there for the end and sprint. Except for Amstel in 2012 where he actually did a good attack.

The only special thing about his career is three WCs but Sagan has that as well (for Slovakia, not Spain) and the rest of his history is so much more interesting, impressive and influential than Freire's

For me they are close, it was a dilemma for me. He has that one big win more, Sagan has couple of lesser wins more and some podiums too. Although maybe I had put Sagan behind because he still has plenty of time to surpass him (which I'm sure he will).

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

I can't say my true opinion about putting Freire above Sagan without being disrespectful.

Yes, Freire won three WC and three MSR but that's it, really. Apart from a Gent-Wevelgem and Paris-Tours. Vattenfall if you want to add that. No top 10 in other monuments than MSR, no presence in races other than just being there for the end and sprint. Except for Amstel in 2012 where he actually did a good attack.

The only special thing about his career is three WCs but Sagan has that as well (for Slovakia, not Spain) and the rest of his history is so much more interesting, impressive and influential than Freire's

Don't really consider that disrespectful tbh.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

I can't say my true opinion about putting Freire above Sagan without being disrespectful.

Yes, Freire won three WC and three MSR but that's it, really. Apart from a Gent-Wevelgem and Paris-Tours. Vattenfall if you want to add that. No top 10 in other monuments than MSR, no presence in races other than just being there for the end and sprint. Except for Amstel in 2012 where he actually did a good attack.

The only special thing about his career is three WCs but Sagan has that as well (for Slovakia, not Spain) and the rest of his history is so much more interesting, impressive and influential than Freire's

Don't really consider that disrespectful tbh.

I certainly thought some disrespectful thoughts but managed to restrain myself from putting them through my keyboard.

 

[KZD]

Incredible win, the most versatile classics rider of the decade and a true killer while racing.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Well... after 2011, an abysmal 2012 (which he saved by winning the WC), ironically enough he's actually managed to become an all time legend as a senior citizen.

 

[Sciatic]

Cool to see how happy the other pack members were for him!
https://twitter.com/philippegilbert/status/1117507465111834628?s=21

 

[Koronin]

For me the best classics riders of this century are: Bettini, Boonen, Cancellara, Gilbert, and Valverde. (Alphabetical order)