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Philippe Gilbert Discussion Thread

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Re: Re:

Zinoviev Letter said:
Red Rick said:
I guess a lot depends on how you rate certain races/distributions. For me Bettini is still clearly ahead

How?

I can see that there’s an argument, but I can only understand putting Bettini “clearly” ahead if you think that the Olympic RR is more important than the Monuments. And anyone who thinks that hates cycling and thinks that it’s a trivial sport with no fan base or traditions of its own.

I clearly hate cycling
 
Re:

Red Rick said:
I guess a lot depends on how you rate certain races/distributions. For me Bettini is still clearly ahead
Well Bettini has two more big wins than Gilbert but he is massively lacking wins in the non monument classics. Also although he won many different races other than Gilbert he never had big success on the cobbles and that really is what sets Gilbert apart from the rest.
 
Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
Red Rick said:
I guess a lot depends on how you rate certain races/distributions. For me Bettini is still clearly ahead

How?

I can see that there’s an argument, but I can only understand putting Bettini “clearly” ahead if you think that the Olympic RR is more important than the Monuments. And anyone who thinks that hates cycling and thinks that it’s a trivial sport with no fan base or traditions of its own.

I clearly hate cycling

I knew it!

The Olympics is the main event in sports with no mass following of their own, sports nobody cares about outside of an occasional festival of jingoism. In sports with an actual fan base that follows the sport on its own merits, the sport’s own big events and traditions matter more than borrowed glory. The Olympic RR is a career defining win for a rider like Samuel Sanchez, someone who won nothing of real substance. For a Bettini, it’s a nice bauble.
 
Re: Re:

Gigs_98 said:
Red Rick said:
I guess a lot depends on how you rate certain races/distributions. For me Bettini is still clearly ahead
Well Bettini has two more big wins than Gilbert but he is massively lacking wins in the non monument classics. Also although he won many different races other than Gilbert he never had big success on the cobbles and that really is what sets Gilbert apart from the rest.
Did win Sanremo though. 2 extra major championships is worth more to me than slightly more favorable distribution. And it's not like Bettini didn't win anything outside the monuments either.
 
As someone who's almost hitting 30 I never thought I'd see a rider win both of the hilly monuments and the cobbled monuments in my lifetime. An absolutely insane achievement in any era, of course, but something I considered absolutely impossible to do in this era of specialization. I was sure Sean Kelly's three podiums at Ronde were as close as anyone was ever going to get, and the last we would see of riders being that competitive over such a broad spectrum of one day races.
 
Re:

Saint Unix said:
As someone who's almost hitting 30 I never thought I'd see a rider win both of the hilly monuments and the cobbled monuments in my lifetime. An absolutely insane achievement in any era, of course, but something I considered absolutely impossible to do in this era of specialization. I was sure Sean Kelly's three podiums at Ronde were as close as anyone was ever going to get, and the last we would see of riders being that competitive over such a broad spectrum of one day races.

Even more so since Gilbert was never known to be the fastest. Kelly could outsprint most people even on flat stages while Gilbert even in his prime only packed a decent acceleration but never high end speed.
 
Re:

Saint Unix said:
As someone who's almost hitting 30 I never thought I'd see a rider win both of the hilly monuments and the cobbled monuments in my lifetime. An absolutely insane achievement in any era, of course, but something I considered absolutely impossible to do in this era of specialization. I was sure Sean Kelly's three podiums at Ronde were as close as anyone was ever going to get, and the last we would see of riders being that competitive over such a broad spectrum of one day races.
I was your age when Kelly was still racing! :lol: I love and hate and enjoy comparing riders of the same era, riders of different eras...

I love that PG is sub 70 kg winning a race that many would argue is only for the 77 kg+ guys (disclaimer: I don't know what PG's exact weight was heading into today).
 
Re: Re:

jmdirt said:
Saint Unix said:
As someone who's almost hitting 30 I never thought I'd see a rider win both of the hilly monuments and the cobbled monuments in my lifetime. An absolutely insane achievement in any era, of course, but something I considered absolutely impossible to do in this era of specialization. I was sure Sean Kelly's three podiums at Ronde were as close as anyone was ever going to get, and the last we would see of riders being that competitive over such a broad spectrum of one day races.
I was your age when Kelly was still racing! :lol: I love and hate and enjoy comparing riders of the same era, riders of different eras...

I love that PG is sub 70 kg winning a race that many would argue is only for the 77 kg+ guys (disclaimer: I don't know what PG's exact weight was heading into today).

Official weight listed for PG is 69KG, so I'd say that has to be close. He's also the lightest rider to win Flanders.
 
Re: Re:

Koronin said:
jmdirt said:
Saint Unix said:
As someone who's almost hitting 30 I never thought I'd see a rider win both of the hilly monuments and the cobbled monuments in my lifetime. An absolutely insane achievement in any era, of course, but something I considered absolutely impossible to do in this era of specialization. I was sure Sean Kelly's three podiums at Ronde were as close as anyone was ever going to get, and the last we would see of riders being that competitive over such a broad spectrum of one day races.
I was your age when Kelly was still racing! :lol: I love and hate and enjoy comparing riders of the same era, riders of different eras...

I love that PG is sub 70 kg winning a race that many would argue is only for the 77 kg+ guys (disclaimer: I don't know what PG's exact weight was heading into today).

Official weight listed for PG is 69KG, so I'd say that has to be close. He's also the lightest rider to win Flanders.
Isn't Bettiol listed as u70 too?
 
A poll between Valverde Gilbert Bettini Cancellara and Boonen is definitely due in a couple of years when PhilGil and Bala hang up their wheels.

I imagine Sagan might be another name to throw in the ring once he's got a few more major wins under his belt, arguably already is (triple rainbow goes a long way)
 
I can't say my true opinion about putting Freire above Sagan without being disrespectful.

Yes, Freire won three WC and three MSR but that's it, really. Apart from a Gent-Wevelgem and Paris-Tours. Vattenfall if you want to add that. No top 10 in other monuments than MSR, no presence in races other than just being there for the end and sprint. Except for Amstel in 2012 where he actually did a good attack.

The only special thing about his career is three WCs but Sagan has that as well (for Slovakia, not Spain) and the rest of his history is so much more interesting, impressive and influential than Freire's
 
Re: Re:

Zinoviev Letter said:
Red Rick said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
Red Rick said:
I guess a lot depends on how you rate certain races/distributions. For me Bettini is still clearly ahead

How?

I can see that there’s an argument, but I can only understand putting Bettini “clearly” ahead if you think that the Olympic RR is more important than the Monuments. And anyone who thinks that hates cycling and thinks that it’s a trivial sport with no fan base or traditions of its own.

I clearly hate cycling

I knew it!

The Olympics is the main event in sports with no mass following of their own, sports nobody cares about outside of an occasional festival of jingoism. In sports with an actual fan base that follows the sport on its own merits, the sport’s own big events and traditions matter more than borrowed glory. The Olympic RR is a career defining win for a rider like Samuel Sanchez, someone who won nothing of real substance. For a Bettini, it’s a nice bauble.

It's defining for Greg Van Avermaet too. He is always labeled as former Olympic champion, not former Ronde Van Vlaanderen champion. Olympics win is a dream for many cyclist, almost every, and although I'm not sure it's bigger race than Monuments, it certainly isn't a lesser race!
 
Re:

tobydawq said:
I can't say my true opinion about putting Freire above Sagan without being disrespectful.

Yes, Freire won three WC and three MSR but that's it, really. Apart from a Gent-Wevelgem and Paris-Tours. Vattenfall if you want to add that. No top 10 in other monuments than MSR, no presence in races other than just being there for the end and sprint. Except for Amstel in 2012 where he actually did a good attack.

The only special thing about his career is three WCs but Sagan has that as well (for Slovakia, not Spain) and the rest of his history is so much more interesting, impressive and influential than Freire's

For me they are close, it was a dilemma for me. He has that one big win more, Sagan has couple of lesser wins more and some podiums too. Although maybe I had put Sagan behind because he still has plenty of time to surpass him (which I'm sure he will).
 
Re:

tobydawq said:
I can't say my true opinion about putting Freire above Sagan without being disrespectful.

Yes, Freire won three WC and three MSR but that's it, really. Apart from a Gent-Wevelgem and Paris-Tours. Vattenfall if you want to add that. No top 10 in other monuments than MSR, no presence in races other than just being there for the end and sprint. Except for Amstel in 2012 where he actually did a good attack.

The only special thing about his career is three WCs but Sagan has that as well (for Slovakia, not Spain) and the rest of his history is so much more interesting, impressive and influential than Freire's
Don't really consider that disrespectful tbh.
 
Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
tobydawq said:
I can't say my true opinion about putting Freire above Sagan without being disrespectful.

Yes, Freire won three WC and three MSR but that's it, really. Apart from a Gent-Wevelgem and Paris-Tours. Vattenfall if you want to add that. No top 10 in other monuments than MSR, no presence in races other than just being there for the end and sprint. Except for Amstel in 2012 where he actually did a good attack.

The only special thing about his career is three WCs but Sagan has that as well (for Slovakia, not Spain) and the rest of his history is so much more interesting, impressive and influential than Freire's
Don't really consider that disrespectful tbh.

I certainly thought some disrespectful thoughts but managed to restrain myself from putting them through my keyboard.
 

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