The great thing about Filgil is not the number of races he has won, but the way in which he's won them.
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Blanco said:It's defining for Greg Van Avermaet too. He is always labeled as former Olympic champion, not former Ronde Van Vlaanderen champion. Olympics win is a dream for many cyclist, almost every, and although I'm not sure it's bigger race than Monuments, it certainly isn't a lesser race!
2011 Worlds for Cav was also pretty dumb in that regard and considering Gilbert had been pretty questionable throughout that season, he still managed to destroy people on Cauberg.Red Rick said:The Olympics are basically a rarer version of the Worlds. You have to get a route that suits you at the right time.
If that's an argument against it's significance, then what does Gilbert's worlds victory mean? Probably the only route in the last 20 years that was so ridiculously suited to one rider.
Valv.Piti said:2011 Worlds for Cav was also pretty dumb in that regard and considering Gilbert had been pretty questionable throughout that season, he still managed to destroy people on Cauberg.Red Rick said:The Olympics are basically a rarer version of the Worlds. You have to get a route that suits you at the right time.
If that's an argument against it's significance, then what does Gilbert's worlds victory mean? Probably the only route in the last 20 years that was so ridiculously suited to one rider.
Don't sleep on Gilbert for the coming Worlds. That route is great for him and he thrives in long races when his explosively has taken a pretty huge dip.
Any bunch sprint still has a semblance of a lottery though. That Worlds was never in doubt basically when Gilbert won two stages in the Vuelta.Salvarani said:Valv.Piti said:2011 Worlds for Cav was also pretty dumb in that regard and considering Gilbert had been pretty questionable throughout that season, he still managed to destroy people on Cauberg.Red Rick said:The Olympics are basically a rarer version of the Worlds. You have to get a route that suits you at the right time.
If that's an argument against it's significance, then what does Gilbert's worlds victory mean? Probably the only route in the last 20 years that was so ridiculously suited to one rider.
Don't sleep on Gilbert for the coming Worlds. That route is great for him and he thrives in long races when his explosively has taken a pretty huge dip.
He still has a great engine, but not as explosive anymore. His attack that Sagan had to respond to was massive. Probably why Sagan then was empty a few km later when Politt and Gilbert went.
Velolover2 said:Defining legacy really depends on all Monuments + the WC/OC are considered equal or not.
You also have to separate Classics from the Semi-Classics. And semi-classics from regular one-day races. Anything below semi-classics shouldn't really be a part of the equation. You could also make the argument that even the semi-classics shouldn't be a part of the equation.
That leaves us with the 5 Monuments, the WC, the OC and another handful of major classics (such as Amstel) when judging the classics specialists against each other.
Red Rick said:The Olympics are basically a rarer version of the Worlds. You have to get a route that suits you at the right time.
If that's an argument against it's significance, then what does Gilbert's worlds victory mean? Probably the only route in the last 20 years that was so ridiculously suited to one rider.
Aside from the Freire over Sagan debate (I'd put Sagan over Freire any day of the year as well), if we are talking in terms of one day racing I'd put Sagan clearly above Valverde as well. Of course Valverde is also a great stage racer who has won a gt, so arguebly if you look at their whole palmares it's Valverde over Sagan but in terms of one day racing Valverde has as many big wins as Sagan, however four of those came in the same race and aside from that the only WT one day races he has ever won are Fleche Wallone and San Sebastian (although tbf he is record champion in the former). Sagan has a lot more to his name.Blanco said:The best one-day riders of the Century are/were Bettini, Freire, Boonen, Cancellara, Valverde, Gilbert and Sagan.
Order, for me, after this spectacular Gilbert's win, is:
Bettini
Boonen
Gilbert
Cancellara
Valverde
Freire
Sagan
tobydawq said:So, I have been thinking a bit about the whole "would Gilbert really have let Lampaert join the party or was he bluffing" conundrum in the last kilometres of the race.
And I think he was bluffing. Because he wanted that race and too many times in recent years (since he joined QuickStep) has he lost a race because a teammate has taken the initiative before him and he has had to play the role of the good teammate that disorganises the hunt.
tobydawq said:Velolover2 said:Defining legacy really depends on all Monuments + the WC/OC are considered equal or not.
You also have to separate Classics from the Semi-Classics. And semi-classics from regular one-day races. Anything below semi-classics shouldn't really be a part of the equation. You could also make the argument that even the semi-classics shouldn't be a part of the equation.
That leaves us with the 5 Monuments, the WC, the OC and another handful of major classics (such as Amstel) when judging the classics specialists against each other.
Not a good argument.
Velolover2 said:tobydawq said:Velolover2 said:Defining legacy really depends on all Monuments + the WC/OC are considered equal or not.
You also have to separate Classics from the Semi-Classics. And semi-classics from regular one-day races. Anything below semi-classics shouldn't really be a part of the equation. You could also make the argument that even the semi-classics shouldn't be a part of the equation.
That leaves us with the 5 Monuments, the WC, the OC and another handful of major classics (such as Amstel) when judging the classics specialists against each other.
Not a good argument.
You have to draw the line somewhere. No matter how many Cadel Evans Great Ocean Road Race's you win, it will never be as great as winning Paris-Roubaix.
Velolover2 said:I think we agree. I consider Omloop, Strade, E3, GW, Amstel, Flèche, San Seb, Emilia, Torino and Tours as classics and a part of the equation.
I was thinking of more "obscure" races like Trofeo Andratx, Le Samyn or Coppa Bernocchi when drawing the line.
Velolover2 said:I think we agree. I consider Omloop, Strade, E3, GW, Amstel, Flèche, San Seb, Emilia, Torino and Tours as classics and a part of the equation.
I was thinking of more "obscure" races like Trofeo Andratx, Le Samyn or Coppa Bernocchi when drawing the line.
Red Rick said:game theory optimal.tobydawq said:GTO?