Philippe Gilbert is the best cyclist in the world

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Why, don't you believe it??
I can only say I remember the story clearly, it was told to me by insiders when i visited a race

And it should be clear to everyone that even the best of the woman are nowhere near any men, even the young ones. Not to be a sexist or anything. It's just a fact. Compare the junior time trials to the women (who often ride same distance). The difference in avg. is staggering, in road races it's even worse.

 

[Spine Concept]

Why, don't you believe it??

I can only say I remember the story clearly, it was told to me by insiders when i visited a race

I'm not one to quickly take someone's word for it, mostly out of experience. Other than that, I'm just intrigued.

 

[movingtarget]

Best 1 day racer in the world for sure.

On a hard course, without a doubt. For me Contador still has to be considered the best overall and Cavendish the best on a flat one day course.

 

[theyoungest]

To use 'cross to illustrate the point is grossly unfair too.

Not to mention that Mathieu van der Poel is Adrie van der Poel's son and Raymond Poulidor's grandson, so he has a bit of an unfair advantage

 

[Spine Concept]

Why, don't you believe it??
I can only say I remember the story clearly, it was told to me by insiders when i visited a race

And it should be clear to everyone that even the best of the woman are nowhere near any men, even the young ones. Not to be a sexist or anything. It's just a fact. Compare the junior time trials to the women (who often ride same distance). The difference in avg. is staggering, in road races it's even worse.

Sure, however, you are again under the flawed assumption that I am implying she could compete with men. I'm just curious, you know? A natural inquisitive behavior often found in humans.

 

[Spine Concept]

To use 'cross to illustrate the point is grossly unfair too.

What are you on about? What point?

 

[Midnightfright]

Why, don't you believe it??
I can only say I remember the story clearly, it was told to me by insiders when i visited a race

And it should be clear to everyone that even the best of the woman are nowhere near any men, even the young ones. Not to be a sexist or anything. It's just a fact. Compare the junior time trials to the women (who often ride same distance). The difference in avg. is staggering, in road races it's even worse.

I could believe that. It's reminds me of john conners vs martina navatilova exhibition match. that doesn't make female athletes or there achievements any less impressive.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

with the difference than both contador and canc are also dominating more than one specialization.

for example, gilbert is the best hilly rider, but canc in the best tter and the best cobbled rider.
contador the best climber, but he also is a pretty good tter and he has classics potential.

both have more endurence and maybe canc has more rec than phil.

also canc showed he can beat phil in a sprint.

gilbert is not the number one rider in the world in what talent is concerned, far from that.

but he and his team are getting really stronger since the last 2 years.

after phil went solo for a kilometer, it isn't the same

 

[Michielveedeebee]

I think along a different lines. Yes being able to dominate in the your speciality is one thing, bu what I take into account is your competitiveness all year round. Cavendish is the best sprinter in the world, but how many times do we see him not contest a sprint because he got caught out by a hill. In the last 2 years, outside of the Grand Tours, he has about 6 or 7 wins. For a sprinter that is not a lot. He has been the best at his specialization, but I haven't seen anything special that makes me go that is the best cyclist.

that actually is a lot; because you can add another 10 victories in GT's

 

[Michielveedeebee]

You small pathetic man.


Love to see some SRM data from Marianne; see how she ranks up againts some of the boys.

prolly not as high, but w/o any doubt very impressive! Topsport is for women and men alike

 

[Spine Concept]

I could believe that. It's reminds me of john conners vs martina navatilova exhibition match. that doesn't make female athletes or there achievements any less impressive.

Absolutely not. It would be incredibly sexist the state the opposite. One can only compete with each other's equal in terms of physical capabilities, otherwise it would hardly be fair. With that in mind, she's unbelievable.

 

[ultimobici]

What are you on about? What point?

Sorry, should have quoted Dekker Tifosi not you. Just felt that to use a cyclocross race to illustrate why there is such a difference between men's & women's racing was not a good idea.

 

[Spine Concept]

Check out this attack (video) from yesterday's stage. On the hills, she's really the female equivalent of Gilbert.

Thanks for that youngest. Was a joy to watch though it is evident that Pooley is much more supple going up vis-a-vis marianne, who is obviously more of a puncheur.

 

[Spine Concept]

Sorry, should have quoted Dekker Tifosi not you. Just felt that to use a cyclocross race to illustrate why there is such a difference between men's & women's racing was not a good idea.

I see. In that case I definitely agree with you.

 

[ultimobici]

As of 2/7/11 Gilbert is 2nd to Contador with Cancellara at 9th and Cavendish 11th. As of the end of 2010 their relative order had not changed with Contador in 2nd, Gilbert 4th, Cancellara 9th and Cavendish 14th.
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/cqRankingRider.asp

 

[Midnightfright]

Absolutely not. It would be incredibly sexist the state the opposite. One can only compete with each other's equal in terms of physical capabilities, otherwise it would hardly be fair. With that in mind, she's unbelievable.

I totally agree with u. I was just wanting to make it clear I was undermining anyone or anything they may have done.

 

[Mambo95]

I never said she would survive in a male race. I just thought it would be interesting to have a look-see. Nohing more, nothing less. Not that the notion is that far-fetched seeing how dominant she is in almost every race she enters.

When was this race you mentioned? Any links, video? Would love to see it.

There is an example of top women pros in a men's stage race from 2008. Just prior to the Olympics, the GB team, including Cooke and Pooley, entered the Ras de Cymru which is a stage race for cat 2 (and below) amateurs. They did pretty well. Pooley won a stage and Cooke was top 10 on GC (maybe Pooley was too, I can't find the actual results). That was a good indication of how the top women would match up against male riders.

 

[Swabian Lass]

That's interesting, I'd be very interested to see the actual results if any one has them.

Generally speaking, I don't think you can compare men's and women's times etc. The physiology is just too different. I think that the only way you can compare is to look at position within their competing groups and Vos is clearly dominant in hers as Gilbert is in his. Does that make one better than the other? No, I don't think so. They're both very, very good at what they do.

 

[Spine Concept]

I totally agree with u. I was just wanting to make it clear I was undermining anyone or anything they may have done.

I was basically echoing your sentiments. It might have come across in a different way than intended. My apologies if that was the case.

 

[Andre.J]

He can't climb the high cols and he can't time trial.

How can he be the "best" in the world?

He's what say Bettini was to Pharmstrong. A great racer, but, until you can win the Tour, you aint the best rider in the world.

Those who can climb the high Cols cannot time trial, and those who can time trial cannot climb the high Cols. Unless you are Eddy Merckx. The statement has to be taken in perspective.

Andre

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Is Van der Poel just a crosser or does he do the road too?

Road time trials are probably the best way to compare (using similar distances).

With that in mind, I make this comparison:

Emma Pooley won the 2010 World Championships ITT over 22,8km. Her time was 32'48".

Marco Pinotti won the 2008 Giro final ITT over 28,5km. His time was 32'45".


But to be fair, as has been stated, we shouldn't be judging the women against the men, because they don't compete with them. And there are no men in the sport who are stomping their opposition like Marianne is. In fact, I can't think of many men or women in any sport who are stomping their opposition like Marianne is. I'm sure there are some, predominantly in sports equally or even more obscure than women's cycling, though.

 

[mombus]

Gilbert is dominant, and Im a fan, but no more dominant than Fabian was last year on the cobbles, but maybe you only have an 11 month memory.

Philippe Gilbert 2011:
1st Opening stage of the Tour
1st Liège–Bastogne–Liège
1st Amstel Gold Race
1st La Flèche Wallonne
1st Belgium National Road Race Champion
3rd Milan-San Remo

Maybe you only have a 2 month memory? Cancellara was not this good last year.

 

[Midnightfright]

Philippe Gilbert 2011:
1st Liège–Bastogne–Liège
1st Amstel Gold Race
1st La Flèche Wallonne
1st Belgium National Road Race Champion
3rd Milan-San Remo

Maybe you only have a 2 month memory? Cancellara was not this good last year.

He was none existent in the Belgian national championships

 

[theyoungest]

Is Van der Poel just a crosser or does he do the road too?

Road time trials are probably the best way to compare (using similar distances).

With that in mind, I make this comparison:

Emma Pooley won the 2010 World Championships ITT over 22,8km. Her time was 32'48".

Marco Pinotti won the 2008 Giro final ITT over 28,5km. His time was 32'45".


But to be fair, as has been stated, we shouldn't be judging the women against the men, because they don't compete with them. And there are no men in the sport who are stomping their opposition like Marianne is. In fact, I can't think of many men or women in any sport who are stomping their opposition like Marianne is. I'm sure there are some, predominantly in sports equally or even more obscure than women's cycling, though.

There's a very fair recent example to compare women to men in a time trial: the Solvang TT in the ToC, over the exact same course on the same day. Kirsten Armstrong clocked 34.29, David Zabriskie 30.36. A four minutes difference in a half hour time trial, that's pretty significant.

Is Van der Poel just a crosser or does he do the road too?

He does road as well, he's the current Dutch champion time trial (and cyclocross of course) in his age group.

 

[TeoSheva]

Gilbert is the best by far...