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Phinneys change of opinion

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buckwheat

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shouldawouldacoulda said:
Millar was inconsistent when he was on the gear as well.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming he's clean now, he's still inconsistent. Sure he's blown chunks the last week in the tour... but he was 3rd in the prologue of this Tour (before he broke his ribs) and has won 3 races this year... Here are his 2010 results -- They don't look too bad to me and he still excels in time trials.

Everything I've heard about Millar is he is mentally fragile. Maybe if he wasn't such a head case he'd be more consistent?

Mentally fragile?

It's easy to say someone's mentally fragile when they know they have no legs and they're looking at a 200k stage over a couple high passes with a mountaintop finish.

I would say the mental fragility follows the physical inability to recover.
 
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shouldawouldacoulda said:
I dunno what to make of that?

Millar is more of a team player now. leads out in GTs in a lot of the sprints...does a lot of domestique work and is prepared to sacrifice his chances for others..he is struggling with 3 cracked ribs. very very painful.
 
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buckwheat said:
Lance is consistent, another 15 min dropped, I thought it would be more than twenty. I'm going with 2hrs as the over under in the final gc.

What can we make of Lance? I mean I don't think he's riding clean in this tour at all. But he isn't riding well either?

Crashing is not a matter of luck. You crash when you are on the limit and let yourself get poorly positioned and can't react. He's crashed what 7-10 times this tour? I think he crashed only twice during his run of 7 Tour wins.

Is he doping less? Doping the same? Or is his doping just not as effective due to his age?

Maybe his head isn't in the game either? Maybe he's riding around France and all he is thinking about is how the hell he's gonna get out mess he's currently in back in the US?
 

buckwheat

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shouldawouldacoulda said:
What can we make of Lance? I mean I don't think he's riding clean in this tour at all. But he isn't riding well either?

Crashing is not a matter of luck. You crash when you are on the limit and let yourself get poorly positioned and can't react. He's crashed what 7-10 times this tour? I think he crashed only twice during his run of 7 Tour wins.

Is he doping less? Doping the same? Or is his doping just not as effective due to his age?

Maybe his head isn't in the game either? Maybe he's riding around France and all he is thinking about is how the hell he's gonna get out mess he's currently in back in the US?

I think it's a combination of those things. Didn't he crash twice in the neutral start?

I doubt he's doping the same but probably got a blood refill.
 
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Benotti69 said:
Millar is more of a team player now. leads out in GTs in a lot of the sprints...does a lot of domestique work and is prepared to sacrifice his chances for others..he is struggling with 3 cracked ribs. very very painful.

I agree with this. My question was meant more sarcastically. I mentioned Millar's broken ribs in my first comment and I realize this is why he is riding now struggling in the Tour.

So, my sarcasm aside. What I think is Millar is clean now, he's more mature, he's got a different role in his team... but his best performance seem similar to when he was doping - just the quantity is down.

The optimist in me takes away a really positive impression from that. I think the sport is getting better.
 
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buckwheat said:
I think it's a combination of those things. Didn't he crash twice in the neutral start?

I've never seen a neutral start in the Tour, but I've seen a few neutral starts that aren't so neutral :)

But, yeah you're right. He did fall in a neutral. But then again that day on the Ramaz they said he fell 3 times... did you actually see the 3rd one? When the Euskatel guy fell Lance didn't. He had to stop, put his foot down and untangle his bike... but come on, it wasn't a 'fall' and it hardly held him up and impacted him at all.

I think some of Armstrong's misfortune in this Tour have been Bob, Craig, Phil and Paul histrionics.

I'd love to know how many of his incidents could have genuinely affected him.

1) the puncture on the cobbles of stage 3
2) the fall coming off the Stockeu
3) the fall in the roundabout leading up to the Ramaz

Having driven in a few race caravans in my day, I've seen incidents in the neutral start go one of two ways - be possibly damaging because the neutral is being controlled at 50+kph... be completely irrelevant because the commissaires slow the neutral and extend it so that everyone can back in the game safely.

The bigger the race, the more likely it is scenario #2.
 
Big GMaC said:
I have seen him give interviews in at least three languages today, just because his english isn't that strong and has an accent? Also I don't blame him for not wanting to talk about 2007.

I don't see Ned Boulting asking Armstrong any difficult questions

I can assure you that he is mumbling, evasive, and basically slimy and unrepentant in French as well.
 
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buckwheat said:
Mentally fragile?

It's easy to say someone's mentally fragile when they know they have no legs and they're looking at a 200k stage over a couple high passes with a mountaintop finish.

I would say the mental fragility follows the physical inability to recover.

I was not referring to Millar's recent struggles on this Tour. In fact, I think he's shown real mental strength this Tour.
 
shouldawouldacoulda said:
I've never seen a neutral start in the Tour, but I've seen a few neutral starts that aren't so neutral :)
I once had a neutral start in a 50 or 60km MTB race. Not too big of a deal, but a former TdF rider (he got 34 overall or so) turned MTB Master champ was riding alongside. A motorcross bike was leading us out. We should not overtake, so the moto ride just kept us at 5-10m or so. The hardest I've ever ridden a bike was before the start of that race. It seemed to take many kilometers. By the time the moto let us pass, we had a very select leading group, and the rest of the field was out of sight. We were going like 45kph+ over fire roads, and when the start was official, we dropped to 30kph or so, realizing it had been madness. That was a loooong race, even if the trails were pretty tame.
 
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shouldawouldacoulda said:
What can we make of Lance? I mean I don't think he's riding clean in this tour at all. But he isn't riding well either?

Crashing is not a matter of luck. You crash when you are on the limit and let yourself get poorly positioned and can't react. He's crashed what 7-10 times this tour? I think he crashed only twice during his run of 7 Tour wins.

Is he doping less? Doping the same? Or is his doping just not as effective due to his age?

Maybe his head isn't in the game either? Maybe he's riding around France and all he is thinking about is how the hell he's gonna get out mess he's currently in back in the US?

I think this is the real problem. He's going through "death by 1,000 cuts."
 
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shouldawouldacoulda said:
Millar was inconsistent when he was on the gear as well.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming he's clean now, he's still inconsistent. Sure he's blown chunks the last week in the tour... but he was 3rd in the prologue of this Tour (before he broke his ribs) and has won 3 races this year... Here are his 2010 results -- They don't look too bad to me and he still excels in time trials.

Everything I've heard about Millar is he is mentally fragile. Maybe if he wasn't such a head case he'd be more consistent?


In your last short paragraph, you are actually saying that he has a mind of his own, the head is the case that contains everything we own, ideas, memory's beliefs etc.. The fact that he thinks about what he does/did, is no reason to try and insult his intelligence with such a pathetic put down, and no, I don't like him at all. But he is preferable to what you stand for, that being makey uppy, cod bullology.
 
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TeamSkyFans said:
Whats more interesting, is a lot of the livestrong band wearers on twitter who were agreeing with taylor phinney in april are now agreeing with lance and his praise of vino today.

Do the livestrong brigade just agree with whatever comes out of lances mouth?

You've hit the nail on the head.
 
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TeamSkyFans said:
well a taylor phinney thread turned into a lance and vino thread pretty quickly.

I was more wondering about phinneys change of heart. three months ago he was slating dopers and sticking up for lance for never having failed a test, suddenly he is praising vino.

What has changed?

He signed with RadioShack from the Trek Livestrong squad. That is what changed. He is a sellout. Take his BikePure membership away and get it over and done with. This kid is a convert to the worst group in Pro Cycling and a hypocrit to boot. Glad he ain't an Aussie, because he'd be wacked from pillar to post.
 
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shouldawouldacoulda said:
Millar was inconsistent when he was on the gear as well.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming he's clean now, he's still inconsistent. Sure he's blown chunks the last week in the tour... but he was 3rd in the prologue of this Tour (before he broke his ribs) and has won 3 races this year... Here are his 2010 results -- They don't look too bad to me and he still excels in time trials.

Everything I've heard about Millar is he is mentally fragile. Maybe if he wasn't such a head case he'd be more consistent?

That is the story often heard about most Garmin riders. Garmin have an exceptionally talented squad. Millar, Zabriskie, Hyjesdal, Farrar, Dean, Hunter, Vande Velde are all very strong riders.

Am I surprised Hyjesdal had another good run last night? No. He'd been in career best form all year. He even beat Wigans and a lot of other top notch guys who all have made the top 10 before. Perhaps Wigans should have stayed at Garmin hey Blackcat? I think it is fair to say Ryder was going to be Vande Velde's chief domestic this year and being the only uninjured rider on Garmin apart from Dean at the Tour, he gets the nod to go up the road.

As for Millar. He was dropping off the back in the first 10 days. He dropped 45 minutes on one stage. Lantern rouge nominee right there.
 
Galic Ho said:
That is the story often heard about most Garmin riders. Garmin have an exceptionally talented squad. Millar, Zabriskie, Hyjesdal, Farrar, Dean, Hunter, Vande Velde are all very strong riders.

Am I surprised Hyjesdal had another good run last night? No. He'd been in career best form all year. He even beat Wigans and a lot of other top notch guys who all have made the top 10 before. Perhaps Wigans should have stayed at Garmin hey Blackcat? I think it is fair to say Ryder was going to be Vande Velde's chief domestic this year and being the only uninjured rider on Garmin apart from Dean at the Tour, he gets the nod to go up the road.

As for Millar. He was dropping off the back in the first 10 days. He dropped 45 minutes on one stage. Lantern rouge nominee right there.

I have no doubt Garmin are careful as he!! right now. I'm positive they're racing clean. One slip and Novitsky would drive a freight train right up their collective a$$es.
 
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Galic Ho said:
He signed with RadioShack from the Trek Livestrong squad. That is what changed. He is a sellout. Take his BikePure membership away and get it over and done with. This kid is a convert to the worst group in Pro Cycling and a hypocrit to boot. Glad he ain't an Aussie, because he'd be wacked from pillar to post.

He hasn't signed with RSH yet. He is riding as a stagiare - which is non-binding for Phinney and RSH, officially its just a try out. RSH have a first refusal clause in his TLS contract. But as of right now he isn't under contract with RSH for 2011-2012. And from what I hear he is considering going elsewhere. RSH are going to have to convince him to sign.

CSE's contract with Radioshack is only to the end of 2011. So if Phinney signs a mandatory 2yr neo pro contract with RSH it is only secure for one year... again, what I hear is he wants a bit more security than that for when he makes the jump up to ProTour.
 
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Galic Ho said:
That is the story often heard about most Garmin riders. Garmin have an exceptionally talented squad. Millar, Zabriskie, Hyjesdal, Farrar, Dean, Hunter, Vande Velde are all very strong riders.

Yeah Directors have a tendancy to gravitate toward signing riders who were like them... Vaughters is really intelligent, but he's quirky too. As a rider he was a skinny climber, time-trialist type. You see a lot of that kind of rider in his team now: intelligent, quirky, skinny, time-trialist climber types :)

Vandevelde doesn't seem quirky... but he fits the other Vaughters characteristics.

Sometimes I think a lot of Vaughter's motivation behind hiring Matt White was to ensure a bit more diversity in the rider signings. Errr, that and an inside line on getting top shelf Aussie talent for half price.
 
I am thinking that Mr and Mrs Phinney are wishing they would have kept mini Phinney with Vaughters. Or maybe not?

He isn't a natural Grand Tour winner - maybe a sprinter at best.
He is more of a classics rider. Of course, that is just my opinion.

Did Lance promise mini a chance at "developing" him into a Grand Tour winner?

Now that he is a stagiaire is he being tested on how far he is willing to go?

As a parent, I would think it was a great big mistake to leave Vaughters and follow the LA/Bruyneel career development plan.

Do you guys think they regret it? Or intended it to be that way?
 
VeloGirl said:
I am thinking that Mr and Mrs Phinney are wishing they would have kept mini Phinney with Vaughters. Or maybe not?

He isn't a natural Grand Tour winner - maybe a sprinter at best.
He is more of a classics rider. Of course, that is just my opinion.

Did Lance promise mini a chance at "developing" him into a Grand Tour winner?

Now that he is a stagiaire is he being tested on how far he is willing to go?

As a parent, I would think it was a great big mistake to leave Vaughters and follow the LA/Bruyneel career development plan.

Do you guys think they regret it? Or intended it to be that way?

Well, considering father and son Phinney were prominently displayed on the dais yesterday with Armstrong in Denver, I highly doubt there is any regret at the moment...
 
VeloGirl said:
That makes me sad. Because I think Phinney could have been a great classics rider without the program.
Now we will never know for sure.
There's still hope, if Bruyneel and Armstrong are taken off the picture.

However, it does seem like they're doing their best to ruin Phinney's chances for the future. Big salary, touting him as the next big thing even before he turned pro, putting him constantly in the spotlight instead of protecting him and making sure he develops at his own pace... It's not pretty.
 
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TeamSkyFans said:
Can someone explain this?

April 2010
wrj4lg.jpg


July 2010
20iid00.jpg
so what about it ?
 
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pedaling squares said:
You don't find that complete about-face strange?

"Not happy about LBL... Vino is a doper and needs to go away... I don't like cheaters"

"Congrats Vino that was seriously impressive"

it is a text or tweet from a dude just out of puberty.

you all play the morality police well at the keyboard

give it up