Plasticisers - Food contamination possible.

[Moose McKnuckles]

while DEHP may not have the same strict liability as other, banned substances (e.g. clenbuterol), it becomes a farce when his defence just says "prove it was blood doping". this is not criminal justice with 'innocent until proven guilty' - there is an onus on pro riders to take steps in demonstrating that they take anti-doping seriously. he should be required to defend the detected presence in his blood.


from what i understand, that wouldn't reasonably explain the elevated levels found in his blood.

Elevated levels compared to whom? Other riders?

Were any other riders tested for DEHP levels?

 

[rata de sentina]

To get plasticisers into the blood it has to be transfused introvenousley it wont get through the stomach acid cleavage.

Rubbish, the test for phthalate exposure is generally performed by measuring urinary metabolites so how do you suggest they get there?

 

[delbified]

Elevated levels compared to whom? Other riders?

from velonation:

The New York Times then printed a story on October 5th, citing an un-named source as stating that a urine sample taken (from Conatdor) by the UCI on July 20th revealed levels of plasticizers eight times higher than the minimum amount thought to point towards doping.

Were any other riders tested for DEHP levels?

there's no discrete test for DEHP (at least, not from the sampling perspective). it's just one of many parameters that can be traced through a rider's urine sample. so everyone who submits to a drug control is tested for it.

 

[Special_oz_ed]

Thank goodness for Merckx index!

I was so concerned about the lack of knowledge on this thread - e.g., eating loads of plastic to get near AC's levels, and someone even bold enough to state that stomach acid destroys DEHP so AC must have IV doped (off the top of my head - acid alone [including stomach acid], in the absence of some other oxidising agent - eg., Potassium Permangenate - or some enzyme process, is unlikely to affect the structure of DEHP).

But then came Merckx index! Phew! (no sarcasm intended either). Thanks for a bit of sanity.

Merckx,

A very small amount of DEHP will be released from the plastic. They have done studies where plastic wrapped food was heated for a while, and DEHP was found in the food. These compounds in food are certainly absorbed into the circulation. There are well known endocrinological effects, e.g., ranging from alteration in certain hormone levels to babies born with small penises and reduced anal-genital distance.

From memory, concentrations of DEHP in the food increases with an increase in the fat content of the food being heated in the plastic. (don't know how accurate this website is with regard to other info, but it gets the fatty food thing right: http://www.eco-usa.net/toxics/chemicals/di_2-ethylhexyl_phthalate.shtml)

What I find interesting about the original post is the carelessness about the use of DEHP in China. I think it's indicative of the kind of carelessness that goes on in industry all the time (e.g., there was a great program recently on TV alleging Ducommon's terrible fudges with manufacturing aircraft parts for Boeing's Next Generation jets since 1998, I think).

Personally, I think AC's levels of DEHP metabolites are in the high enough range to be suspicious, but not completely out of the realm of possibility of being contamination. It's unlikely, but not impossible. Combined with the clenbuterol positive, it's very suspicious.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

What I find interesting about the original post is the carelessness about the use of DEHP in China.
<snip>
It's unlikely, but not impossible. Combined with the clenbuterol positive, it's very suspicious.

Unfortunately, it is not at all "carelessness", it is deliberate, and is driven by the greed of the manufacturers in a "less than well-regulated" food safety environment. See my post #10 for some of the reasons that it happens.

Totally agree on the suspicous nature of Contador's positive, if the reports of the DEHP levels are correct.

 

[Special_oz_ed]

Furious agreement

G'day GreaseMonkey,

Unfortunately, it is not at all "carelessness", it is deliberate, and is driven by the greed of the manufacturers in a "less than well-regulated" food safety environment. See my post #10 for some of the reasons that it happens.

We're in furious agreement on this one. I wasn't meaning "careless" as in, 'oops, I spilled some DEHP in the food.' What DEHP is doing in a FOOD PRODUCTION plant is beyond me!!!! "Carelessness" in the sense of, probably knowing that it's toxic, they've still added it! They couldn't give a damn about the people they effect.http://forum.cyclingnews.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

 

[Merckx index]

The values in the regular population are so wildly spread out that this is worthless. You can bet dollars to donuts that there will not be a rigorous false positive study done.

There is a very large range in the population, but the standard deviation is actually relatively small. The great majority of people tested have fairly low values. The large range reflects a few outliers with very large values--a prolonged tail in the distribution--and these may result from unusual exposure to these substances. The test is not worthless. The number of false positives--i.e., individuals without a recent transfusion who exhibit values comparable to those following a transfusion--is quite small. Whether it is small enough to satisfy a reasonable criterion for an anti-doping test is highly debatable, but then, this test has all along been promoted not as a standalone test, but as a supplement to other indicators. If the values reported for Bert are correct, they certainly support the CB positive, and don't have to be taken as proof by any means of blood doping to add to the case against him.

Just as a follow-up to some of the points made in this thread, there are thought to be at least four major ways DEHP and other plasticizers can get into the body:

1) Hospital procedures - leaching out of blood bags and also the plastic tubing used in many procedures

2) eating – foods wrapped in plastic become contaminated with these compounds as they leach out of the wrap; there is also concern that these compounds leach out of the plastic disposable gloves routinely used by people in food preparation (one of the many ironies of modern technology; plastic gloves are used, of course, to prevent transmission of bacteria, but now we discover they have their own liabilities)

3) absorption through the skin – e.g., many cosmetic products contain DEHP and/or related compounds, and studies have shown that people who work in the cosmetic industry may have high levels of DEHP metabolites. There is also concern that heavy users, viz., women and babies, may absorb these compounds from use of these products.

4) breathing - it has been speculated that plasticizers may get into the air in significant concentrations in closed spaces, e.g., inside cars with plastic seat covers

 

[B_Ugli]

Not being a clinician I find a lot of this post fascinating.

What I cant get away from is the fact that out of the 100's of Elite cyclists racing and being tested in Europe every week all eating pretty much the same diet only 1 has tested positive and this he claims is due to contamination.

Is he really that unlucky?

 

[Benotti69]

Not being a clinician I find a lot of this post fascinating.

What I cant get away from is the fact that out of the 100's of Elite cyclists racing and being tested in Europe every week all eating pretty much the same diet only 1 has tested positive and this he claims is due to contamination.

Is he really that unlucky?

100's tested weekly? Where did you get that figure?

All on the same diet? All on a similar intake of calories and proteins and whatnots. But as for same diet. See the Chris Horner thread for that.

 

[B_Ugli]

100's tested weekly? Where did you get that figure?

I didnt say 100's tested weekly! I said that there are probably a few hundred Elite cyclists in europe who are all subject to testing.

 

[Special_oz_ed]

Merckx,

4) breathing - it has been speculated that plasticizers may get into the air in significant concentrations in closed spaces, e.g., inside cars with plastic seat covers

It's fairly well established that environments like offices with new carpets that use plasticizers etc increase the levels of plasticizer in the blood and urine. Most plasticizers are relatively volatile, and evaporate readily from plastic products. It's often seen in new cars as the smudgy film on the inside of the windscreen.

 

[bianchigirl]

Funny really that only 1 rider had a +ve test in last year's TdF despite there being several ranked 6-10 on the Index of Suspicion - oh, yes, I forgot, those 8 & 10 ranked riders simply never got tested did they?