Playing God: Eufemiano Fuentes

[DirtyWorks]

Here's one thing that the detractors never seem to have to face:
If all these riders who call out Fuentes, Ferrari, and whoever else, are really lying, then how is that they know so much about doping? Who educated them as to the substances, methods and the processes? If not the "doctors" themselves, than it would have to be other riders and/or support staff—which points further to team-wide doping.

Repeat after Pat McQuaid, "maybe 2% of the peloton dopes and they do it alone." "The peloton is cleaner than ever." Hey, look over there! New bikes! Another race!

 

[Roninho]

You know what's less healthy than trying to compete in a GT clean? Trying to compete in a GT clean against doped riders.

He didn't seem too concerned about health when experimenting with EPO in the early 90's. I'd be willing to bet more riders have suffered significant health issues as a result of doping than as a result of not doping.

Oh totally agree with that.

However it does not negate the argument Fuentes seems to be making IF you take into account that these riders will be doping anyways. The discusion about health of dope versus no dope is irrelevant when the riders are going to dope anyway. And if these guys are going to dope anyway then it's much safer if its done by a doctor then that these guys are experimenting themselves.

For clarity: i don't think that Fuentes motives where based on health concerns (imo it was status and/or money and/or personal interest), i'm just saying that i agree that when someone is going to dope it is likely much safer when done by a certified doctor.

 

[Brad Lamb]

Le Monde wrote in December 2006 that it had seen handwritten notes by Eufemiano Fuentes over "preparation plans" for Barcelona and Real Madrid. Fuentes was previously arrested in Operation Puerto — Spain's biggest Doping investigation.

http://www.greenfieldreporter.com/v...42e8a3d13d66e88ef142/SOC--Barcelona-Le-Monde/

The Hog,

Do you know where I can get a copy of the original Le Monde article that appeared in December 2006? The link you have posted states the article is no longer available.

Thanks

 

[snackattack]

In Madrid on Monday, January, 28th begins the case Fuentes.

Fuentes is not alone to take place in the penalty box. Saiz, Belda, Contador, Basso, Scarponi, Serrano, Beloki, Jaksche, Vicioso are the first having to answer in court.

Potentially over a hundred might have to show up to testify in the near future.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I heard something about Alberto going to defend Saiz

 

[the asian]

I heard something about Alberto going to defend Saiz

He's like his godfather, so no surprises there.

Interesting that Scarponi seems to have been a client of both Fuentes & Ferrari.

We know Vino was another. Wonder how many more were clients of both.

Anyway if something concrete happens this time, I''ll be glad.

 

[hrotha]

I heard something about Alberto going to defend Saiz

He can't testify against Manolo without implicating himself.

 

[Jack (6 ch)]

D. Tel article expands on this a bit:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...s-Operation-Puerto-scandal-goes-on-trial.html

 

[L'arriviste]

D. Tel article expands on this a bit:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...s-Operation-Puerto-scandal-goes-on-trial.html

Jaksche's suggestion that Fuentes went to Germany on business for the 2006 World Cup is interesting to me: if that's true, he had some brass balls or else he faced risks by not delivering.

Fuentes was arrested in May, the World Cup was played in July and the German police conducted a raid on his alleged German connection in August.

If he was in Germany, he had to be doping footballers while under investigation in Spain, and possibly already in Germany too.

Marcus Choina was the anaesthetist who allegedly supplied him using Comunidad Valenciana assistant manager José Ignacio Labarta (also arrested with Fuentes) as a middleman.

Choina worked in Goettingen only two hours away from where the Spanish football team was based throughout its World Cup campaign in Kamen. Of course, it is only a loose assumption that Fuentes doped the squad of his own nationality.

 

[The Hitch]

D. Tel article expands on this a bit:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...s-Operation-Puerto-scandal-goes-on-trial.html

Just came to link that myself. What a disgrace that cycling is made the scapegoat and everyone else gets off Scott free.

 

[LaFlorecita]

He can't testify against Manolo without implicating himself.

I know I just thought I didn't make sense because as soon as Fuentes starts talking he's screwed.

 

[sniper]

Just came to link that myself. What a disgrace that cycling is made the scapegoat and everyone else gets off Scott free.

yep, its why I agree witj Pat for once:

The International Cycling Union (UCI) has expressed disappointment in the past that only cycling was investigated. “Fuentes said it himself, 30 per cent of his clients were cyclists. Where’s the other 70 per cent?” UCI president Pat McQuaid said when the case was reopened in 2009.

A nice opportunity this might become for Pat to show what he's worth, to not let cycling be the scapegoat.

 

[martinvickers]

Just came to link that myself. What a disgrace that cycling is made the scapegoat and everyone else gets off Scott free.

I'm a sports omnivore, and I couldn't agree more. Some of us remember Marita Koch, Flo-jo, Michelle Smythe De Bruin, the GDR girs with motorboat engines, etc...

Here's a thought - remember the spate of Nandrolone positives that swept through both athletics, football and tennis in the 2000's (Jaap Stam, Greg Rusedski, etc) - and then just as swiftly stopped. Makes you wonder, in retrosepct....

 

[Mr.38%]

I'm a sports omnivore, and I couldn't agree more. Some of us remember Marita Koch, Flo-jo, Michelle Smythe De Bruin, the GDR girs with motorboat engines, etc...

Here's a thought - remember the spate of Nandrolone positives that swept through both athletics, football and tennis in the 2000's (Jaap Stam, Greg Rusedski, etc) - and then just as swiftly stopped. Makes you wonder, in retrosepct....

According to Stefan Matschiner (B. Kohl et al), in 2003 a contaminated batch of testoterone ampules sweeped all over Europe and made athletes from all kinds of summer and winter sports (for instance he names track & field as well as rowing) return positive tests. The bad thing: It was the worst case scenario because "Deca Durabolin" is Nandrolone with a really long ester and therefore stays in the system for over a half year. The good thing: A repeated cycle of hemodialysis helped everyone - but one female athlete who panicked and messed up...

 

[zebedee]

Some were juicing with Deca, some weren't. Deca is a fantastic recovery agent. Eventually a nandrolone test was developed that could distinguish between exogenous and endogenous variants. Quite a few athletes were found to be producing natural nandrolone above the level that had been previously determined as a test positive. The goal posts for determining a nandrolone positive were thus moved and test positives died away.

 

[Mr.38%]

I don't want to go in details here but juicers aren't using the long ester "Deca" flavor but short-acting Nandrolone propionate or phenylpropionate. Nandrolone is still #2 steroid in track & field (behind T and in front of the reviving Stanozolol).

Testing for slightly elevated levels 2-10 ng/ml has been improved in 2005 as it's possible to filter what they have called "unstable urine". The 2 ng/ml threshold is still in place, though.

In 2003 the case was clear according to Matschiner because all athlets/coaches/managers bought from the same dealer and the stuff came from the exact same lab in eastern europe.

 

[zebedee]

Nandrolone is still #2 steroid in track & field (behind T and in front of the reviving Stanozolol).

How do you know that? Is this opinion or fact? If the latter, there must be a statistics centre for dopers somewhere where they make annual declarations as to what regime they're on?

 

[Arnout]

Fax from Fuentes to doctor of Liberty Seguros, during Tour of 2005.

 

[hrotha]

I'm a bit puzzled that fax is all over Twitter all of sudden. That already came out in 2006 and I'm pretty sure it was included in the USADA reasoned decision.

 

[Arnout]

Was it? I've never seen it and saw it flying past so I thought I would post it.

 

[hrotha]

Was it? I've never seen it and saw it flying past so I thought I would post it.

Yeah, it was, but it's a good thing you posted it, since many people haven't seen it. It's always been buried under a pile of other documents, and you had to dive into the primary sources to find it. I'm puzzled about the journos apparently not knowing this, though.

 

[Arnout]

What does it say for LL Sanchez and Contador? Nothing, or similar to Jaksche, right? And what does it say for Jaksche?

Also I think it is time to crack down on Igor Gonzalez de Galdeano who wrestled himself into a ProTour team again

 

[theyoungest]

Yeah, it was, but it's a good thing you posted it, since many people haven't seen it. It's always been buried under a pile of other documents, and you had to dive into the primary sources to find it. I'm puzzled about the journos apparently not knowing this, though.

Tour de Jose tweeted it, she's a bit of a newbie in journo land so that could be it.

 

[hrotha]

What does it say for LL Sanchez and Contador? Nothing, or similar to Jaksche, right? And what does it say for Jaksche?

Also I think it is time to crack down on Igor Gonzalez de Galdeano who wrestled himself into a ProTour team again

Yeah, "nothing, or same as Jaksche". Maybe they were deemed to be too young so they thought they could still wait and mature a bit before getting on the program for the Tour, since it wouldn't be one of their goals and they'd be there just to gain experience.

For Jaksche, it says "always I-2 - 0.10-0.15 - he already knows - 6th". Whatever that means.

 

[airstream]

Whoa, I thought internet servers with these scans broke down because of after so many years, but we have some memories.

Hrotha, what is written near Alan Davis? Seemingly Contador used some standart set if there was no clarification. Though it is obviously was one of the most harmless Ufe's documents. The rest were never available for press.