Playing God: Eufemiano Fuentes

[DirtyWorks]

but i think the biggest home advantage is that the home nation gets a doping free card, plus additional funding to implement top notch programs.

Give the IOC some credit here. Even pre-WADA they managed doping controversy very well. pre-WADA, the Olympic athletes were notified of a pre-Olympics positive, then the athlete waited for the half-lives of whatever they took to diminish to non-positive before arriving to the games.

Post-WADA, more testing is done early-on so a vaguely reputable federation can re-arrange their teams so that whatever athletes show up, are smart enough not to fail the doping IQ test and start controversy at the games.

Quizz: when was the last time that a home athlete got caught doping during the olympics?

Again, the IOC is smarter than this. If the athlete fails the doping IQ test, then too bad for them. Test positive and they whip out any number of stories blaming the athlete while never addressing the fact the IOC wants them doping to create fantasy Games.

 

[DirtyWorks]

What is a main problem about omerta? It seems that no one can confess only for himself and any confession automatically accuses many many other riders or what?

Sure, plenty of riders confess only for themselves and they are booted out of the elite peloton anyway. FuYu Li, Landis, and plenty more have doped, got caught, protected the perception of the UCI and never got another job at an elite level again. Others had positives and welcomed right back at the elite level. Why? <shrug>

Omerta is kind of a vague term anyway. The reason why it is so useful is it focuses on 'bad athletes' and not the system that rewards bad athletes.

 

[sniper]

Give the IOC some credit here. Even pre-WADA they managed doping controversy very well. pre-WADA, the Olympic athletes were notified of a pre-Olympics positive, then the athlete waited for the half-lives of whatever they took to diminish to non-positive before arriving to the games.

Post-WADA, more testing is done early-on so a vaguely reputable federation can re-arrange their teams so that whatever athletes show up, are smart enough not to fail the doping IQ test and start controversy at the games.



Again, the IOC is smarter than this. If the athlete fails the doping IQ test, then too bad for them. Test positive and they whip out any number of stories blaming the athlete while never addressing the fact the IOC wants them doping to create fantasy Games.

good points (as almost always I might add).

 

[airstream]

Ivan Basso admitted that he donated his blood three times in Madrid but later on could not use it. Basso said he showed a weakness 'cos he wanted to win the Tour. 'I had a dream to win Le Tour, so I donated my blood for storage' — Basso said. He reported that he had got to know Fuentes during his training sessions in the Canary Islands in 2001, but became his client only in 2005. 'I considered there was no risk because I would be reinfused my own blood. Back then I thought that it was legal.(!!!) I was winning before and after the Operacion Puerto'.

 

[icefire]

Basso's testimony:

He had three blood extractions but they were planned for being used during the Tour, so he couldn't use them.

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2013/02/11/ciclismo/1360603930.html

 

[airstream]

I believe Basso in 1 thing. He really met Ufe in 2011, but instantly became his client.

 

[GazelleFormula]

Ivan Basso admitted that he donated his blood three times in Madrid but later on could not use it. Basso said he showed a weakness 'cos he wanted to win the Tour. 'I had a dream to win Le Tour, so I donated my blood for storage' — Basso said. He reported that he had got to know Fuentes during his training sessions in the Canary Islands in 2001, but became his client only in 2005. 'I considered there was no risk because I would be reinfused my own blood. Back then I thought that it was legal.(!!!) I was winning before and after the Operacion Puerto'.

Jezus, the guy could at least have tried to formulate some decent lies.

 

[hrotha]

Then, upon being presented with a document from 2005 (before he started working with Fuentes according to his ridiculous story) that clearly said "Birillo", he said... he didn't recognize it.

 

[D-Queued]

When is the Prosecutor going to offer Fuentes a plea bargain in exchange for testimony that allows multiple perjury convictions from all of these liars?

Dave.

 

[airstream]

If Gazzetta has documents on non-Spanish riders, it necessarily has docs with extracts of bills Basso way paying Ufe in 2004-2005. When Puerto exploded in July 2006, some scans of these bills even were laid out on the internet. Gazzetta could easily publish this. What the **** Basso is saying??!

 

[Gregga]

If Gazzetta has documents on non-Spanish riders, it necessarily has docs with extracts of bills Basso way paying Ufe in 2004-2005. When Puerto exploded in July 2006, some scans of these bills even were laid out on the internet. Gazzetta could easily publish this. What the **** Basso is saying??!

Basso lies, you just have to read page 12 of Tomo IV of OP (from usada.org) to see Birillio's blood was already in Fuentes freezer in 2004

I have also doubts about Jaksche who is supposed to have started working with Fuentes in 2005, but had maybe blood in Fuentes freezer in 2004 (if he really is 'VAINS')

Jaksche protecting his Paris-Nice '04, Basso his '06 Giro...

 

[hrotha]

Basso lies, you just have to read page 12 of Tomo IV of OP (from usada.org) to see Birillio's blood was already in Fuentes freezer in 2004

I have also doubts about Jaksche who is supposed to have started working with Fuentes in 2005, but had maybe blood in Fuentes freezer in 2004 (if he really is 'VAINS')

Jaksche protecting his Paris-Nice '04, Basso his '06 Giro...

Jaksche has admitted he doped for that Paris-Nice, just not with Fuentes.

 

[airstream]

Thanks, Gregga.

Hrotha, what is this report about in general, excluding riders' nicknames and their timetables? Is that pieces of a police report?

 

[the asian]

If Gazzetta has documents on non-Spanish riders, it necessarily has docs with extracts of bills Basso way paying Ufe in 2004-2005. When Puerto exploded in July 2006, some scans of these bills even were laid out on the internet. Gazzetta could easily publish this. What the **** Basso is saying??!

Has some memory loss growing old.

Riders like Basso & Contador must be uber confident that the Spanish will never follow up on their testimonies.

 

[Gregga]

Jaksche has admitted he doped for that Paris-Nice, just not with Fuentes.

You're right, his Paris-Nice is tainted anyway but maybe he's just protecting the man who sent him to Fuentes, Bjarne Riis...

 

[hrotha]

You're right, his Paris-Nice is tainted anyway but maybe he's just protecting the man who sent him to Fuentes, Bjarne Riis...

Nope, he's been saying for years that Riis knew about doping going on at CSC, and about his own doping in particular. Not long ago he also said Fuentes told him he was surprised Riis hadn't sent him to his clinic the year before, from which Jaksche concluded other CSC riders worked with Fuentes.

 

[Gregga]

Nope, he's been saying for years that Riis knew about doping going on at CSC, and about his own doping in particular. Not long ago he also said Fuentes told him he was surprised Riis hadn't sent him to his clinic the year before, from which Jaksche concluded other CSC riders worked with Fuentes.

My bad, Jaksche was certainly not 'VAINS' but took his number (20) in 2005 after VAINS left Fuentes' freezeer. So, VAINS was maybe simply Roman Vainsteins who retired in... 2004. And we still don't know who was Jaksche doping doctor when he was at CSC, but that was a good one as PN 2004 was a quite impressive win (Jaksche was leader from the prologue to Nice)

 

[ElChingon]

Basso, just toeing the Omerta line as always, not one millimeter to any side just on the line.

Yet, not asked who "Amigo de Birilo" was/is. No one in the media is either, maybe when the Peritos talk?

 

[martinvickers]

yeah, one's judgement pretty much depends on how much importance one attributes to doping.

I'd personally reckon that all other things being equal, more funding means more doping means more medals. we know how important doping is at the olympics. normally you're not gonna increase your medal count unless you increase the program. of course there's a home advantage. but i think the biggest home advantage is that the home nation gets a doping free card, plus additional funding to implement top notch programs.

Quizz: when was the last time that a home athlete got caught doping during the olympics?

Athens, so 2 Games ago : Whereabouts violation for Greece's top two athletes, arguably their top two olympians full stop - almost ruined opening ceremony where Kenteris was lighting the flame, and both althetes were taken out of the Games. Doping violation for 2 Baseball players.

 

[LaFlorecita]

This is what is so infuriating about the doping in cycling (AC set to testify)...it's not that they made the choice to dope, i can understand that. It's the fact that the relish in the lie. Contador set to testify on BEHALF of Saiz...AC is relishing in his lie even though he has to know it's on the verge of crumbling

I don't get it, why MUST he support saiz? Are there not 20-30 other riders that could testify on his behalf? The critiscism is already there and they ain't going nowhere

It's pretty simple, Alberto and Saiz are rather close (Alberto has said multiple times that Saiz is like a second father for him) so Alberto doesn't want to see Saiz go to jail and Saiz and his defense know this. You say there are 20-30 other riders that could testify in Saiz's defense but those 20-30 riders may not be interested in doing so while Alberto certainly is.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

It's pretty simple, Alberto and Saiz are rather close (Alberto has said multiple times that Saiz is like a second father for him) so Alberto doesn't want to see Saiz go to jail and Saiz and his defense know this. You say there are 20-30 other riders that could testify in Saiz's defense but those 20-30 riders may not be interested in doing so while Alberto certainly is.

Do not want to go too of topic but saying Manolo 'VENGA VENGA!' Saiz is like your second father is almost the same as saying Armstrong is like your long lost brother.

Just saying.

I must say it was good to read Basso's 2006 Giro was just due to his natural ability. Gotta give it to him, he is consistent in his bending the truth.

What a Tour that would have been in 2006, the Full Force Phonak Phonies, Ully the Bloodbully and Bloody Basso.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Do not want to go too of topic but saying Manolo 'VENGA VENGA!' Saiz is like your second father is almost the same as saying Armstrong is like your long lost brother.

Just saying.

Well. I don't know.

Anyway my point still stands.

 

[airstream]

What a placid and hokey story. I bet Saiz cared of doping for his son in full. Such close ties much oblige.

 

[LaFlorecita]

What a placid and hokey story. I bet Saiz cared of doping for his son in full. Such close ties much oblige.

why don't you get out of your world of hatred and read some articles on the internet. Maybe you can find out why they are so close

 

[will10]

It's pretty simple, Alberto and Saiz are rather close (Alberto has said multiple times that Saiz is like a second father for him) so Alberto doesn't want to see Saiz go to jail and Saiz and his defense know this. You say there are 20-30 other riders that could testify in Saiz's defense but those 20-30 riders may not be interested in doing so while Alberto certainly is.

Everyone is in CYA mode Flo. AC is no exception.