serfla
BANNED
Get lost from the board, you pathetic guerrilla PR!bissib said:
Joined today after the gaffe, posting 4 messages in vulgarian's favor.
Get lost!
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Joined today after the gaffe, posting 4 messages in vulgarian's favor.
Get lost!
serfla
BANNED
How much does he pay you for this forum PR?bissib said:
You're not doing the best job... The intent is obvious.
Lame PR for the lame kid.
serfla said:
I can actually get paid for that? Peter, if you're reading this, drop me a PM and we can work out a deal.
bissib said:
It's laughable in one since because of his age, but I think he will discover how a picture can take on a life its own and not for the good. If that were my daughter I would take great offense and so the smile turns to a frown. The whole tradition of the podium girls has grown hand and hand with the sexual onslaught in entertainment. I give him a pass because I cannot throw a stone at him, but he crossed a line as the poll results show. If his tweet was sincere, then he's thought the better of it.
serfla
BANNED
O.K.
I see I have to respond to the topic in order to keep my post on the board.
And every man isn't a frustrated man eager of females' but.
I see I have to respond to the topic in order to keep my post on the board.
Controversial spotlight. That's not the spotlight that sponsors want.bissib said:
Not negatively?! How's 2000 vulgarians' likes positive publicity? Facebook likes gather similarly oriented crew by default.bissib said:
Let's wait and see. Indecency isn't something the sponsors like.bissib said:
And every man isn't a frustrated man eager of females' but.
bissib said:
Question: At what age does one stop being a 'kid' and become an adult?
He's a grown-*** man and he should know better.
BillytheKid said:
Don't get me wrong, I realize that what he did was inappropriate. The girl had every right to slap him. But she didn't, she smiled. Inappropriate but no harm done and he is not the first college-aged kid that pinched someone's ***. He should have known better before but from now on he will. What I'm trying to say is that it was just a harmless boyish joke, calling it a sexual assault and just generally making it a bigger deal than the actual Fabian's amazing victory is just plain ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as calling Sagan a misogynist *** based on one ****ty t-shirt and a bad joke. But today we live in a world where merely holding the door open for a woman can be considered harassment and paying her looks a compliment is almost an attempted rape.
For those saying "What if it was your daughter?"... Well, if it was my daughter, first I would think "Try that one more time and I will break your arm", right before giggling about it and thinking "Boys will be boys". Because each one of us pinched his share of asses in our youth. And those who didn't wish they did.
serfla said:
First of all, them being "vulgarians" is your opinion, but even if you are right, do you think that sponsors care if their products are bought by gentlemen with monocles or "vulgarians"? Bottom line, at least facebook-wise, Sagan has more fans today than he had yesterday. I don't think his sponsors will be unhappy. Especially since he rides for a basically Italian team and you know how fond the Italians are of this whole macho thing.
thehog
BANNED
thehog said:
This is probably the best example of my "you know how fond the Italians are of this whole macho thing". Do people really think that his Italian (yeah, not technically, but Italian nevertheless) team will give him **** for something like this? They might make some official politically correct statement, but you know damn well that he recieved a couple of pats on his back for this. I mean, these are the guys who persuaded him to sign the girl's boobs during the last TdF.
That's your defense? You did it when you were young so it is ok now?
Why the hell is it ok? When do we as women, finally get the chance to live our life without being pinched on the **** by men? In 10 years, 20? Never??because it is your god given right as "boys being boys" to pinch any female on the **** whenever you damn well feel like it?
You see it as a harmless joke but come on, we as women have put up with this sort of behaviour from men for 100's of years, don't you think it's time to say "enough is enough, a woman's body is her own and she should have the right to go about her business without us men having to touch her just because we damn well feel like it"
Sagan’s behavior was sexist and wrong. But the bigger offence to me is the environment that condones podium girls in the first place. It’s a very sexist and outmoded tradition. Whatever. Chances are slim to none that the podium girls are going anywhere. Sagan has apologized. Lesson learned. Let’s see what happens after Sagan’s next win.
Cowgirlup said:
With all due respect, why do you feel like you are speaking for the girl involved? Or just generally for all women? Why does it always have to be women (as if they were a homogenous group) vs. men (as if they were a homogenous group)? This particular guy pinched an *** of a particular girl and she didn't seem to mind. If she didn't mind, why do other women mind?
No, I don't think that men should be allowed to pinch a girl's *** anytime they please (my girl would kill me if I tried to propose something like that). And I already said so, what Sagan did was inappropriate. But yeah, when a young rider full of testosterone pinches an *** of a girl that gets paid to kiss random men on a podium and she doesn't mind it, it is a very childish and inappropriate thing to do, but not any "sexual assault" or anything that should be given more attention than the actual winner himself.
Sorry, but cry me a river.
Even assuming she didn't mind (which isn't a given at all - no reaction in public doesn't equal being OK with it), how does that make it alright if Sagan didn't know she'd be alright with it?
And the "speaking for all women" thing is hilarious, considering the stuff you've been saying in this thread. Like this:
And the "speaking for all women" thing is hilarious, considering the stuff you've been saying in this thread. Like this:
hrotha said:
Well technically, I was speaking for 90% of the men
It doesn't make it alright and I've already said so a number of times. What he did was wrong. But I stand by my statement that this is being extremely blown out of proportion. Bad childish prank, that's it.
The fact that she's being paid to be there makes it all the worse. If it's, say, at a bus-stop or in a shop then she can reasonably turn around and say "Get your hands off me, you ****". In this situation, she's essentially powerless to do anything at all at the time.
I voted option 2. Even though I think it's really not okay to do that, I think it's worth noting that Sagan is relatively young, lives a pretty sheltered lifestyle and has got where he is because of his legs, not his head. The way we talk about him sometimes, it's no wonder the guy acts like he's not in the real world once in a while.
It reminds me of something the often offensive and occasionally incredibly perceptive comic Frankie Boyle said about Cristiano Ronaldo: "Of course he lacks perspective. He's been treated like he's better than everyone else since the age of about 8 simply for having incredibly well-coordinated feet. It's a wonder he hasn't killed someone."
Yes, it's inappropriate, but people are a product of the societies they are in. In Peter Sagan's world he's treated like royalty, he probably has quite a lot of success with women when he's not groping them in public and he also, by winning lots of bike races, ends up spending a lot of time around podium girls who are treated like pieces of meat, not good for anything but looking pretty.
I think that's the real issue that this has raised. Why are we so surprised that, when we maintain a tradition like having podium that looks at those girls as nothing but objects, someone ends up treating them like objects? In my opinion, podium girls don't really belong in the 21st century, and when things like this happen the culture that tolerates them is more to blame than the individual.
Back to the individual in question, it's worth noting that he almost certainly didn't mean any harm. The fact that a guy can do that and think it's harmless fun is, in my view, a problem with society, but Peter Sagan is not to blame for all of society's ills, no matter how silly you think he finish-line celebrations can be.
I voted option 2. Even though I think it's really not okay to do that, I think it's worth noting that Sagan is relatively young, lives a pretty sheltered lifestyle and has got where he is because of his legs, not his head. The way we talk about him sometimes, it's no wonder the guy acts like he's not in the real world once in a while.
It reminds me of something the often offensive and occasionally incredibly perceptive comic Frankie Boyle said about Cristiano Ronaldo: "Of course he lacks perspective. He's been treated like he's better than everyone else since the age of about 8 simply for having incredibly well-coordinated feet. It's a wonder he hasn't killed someone."
Yes, it's inappropriate, but people are a product of the societies they are in. In Peter Sagan's world he's treated like royalty, he probably has quite a lot of success with women when he's not groping them in public and he also, by winning lots of bike races, ends up spending a lot of time around podium girls who are treated like pieces of meat, not good for anything but looking pretty.
I think that's the real issue that this has raised. Why are we so surprised that, when we maintain a tradition like having podium that looks at those girls as nothing but objects, someone ends up treating them like objects? In my opinion, podium girls don't really belong in the 21st century, and when things like this happen the culture that tolerates them is more to blame than the individual.
Back to the individual in question, it's worth noting that he almost certainly didn't mean any harm. The fact that a guy can do that and think it's harmless fun is, in my view, a problem with society, but Peter Sagan is not to blame for all of society's ills, no matter how silly you think he finish-line celebrations can be.
I hope this discussion is still going when ryo gets back. Won't last long I'm sure therell be some entertainment value to it.
bissib said:
Well that really is quite special. A sweeping generalisation about how much you dislike sweeping generalisations.
Back to the point you were trying to make, I think you have totally grabbed the wrong end of the stick. Men pinching women on the bum without consent (implied or otherwise) is not okay, and is definitely a thing that we all recognise as something that happens. Not all men, not all women. A significant subset of both. Given that a significant proportion of women experience the same thing, I can't quite see why you object to a woman talking about the general experience of the thing, other than the pettily shut someone down.
If you think it's so bad why do you keep making excuses for him? And why the hell does her job mean that it's okay to touch her without her consent? Did the contract for the Flanders Classics podium girl gig mention in it that "Any rider placing second or third may, if they choose, pinch you on the bum"?
You made it men v women the moment you said that "boys will be boys" and "each one of us pinched an *** in our youth and those that didn't wish they did". Did you mean you pinched a bunch of mens butts in your youth? I bet not, I bet it was just women.
Because people keep bashing him for the wrong reasons.Caruut said:
Could you please be so kind and point me to the post where I said something even remotely similar? I started every single one of my posts with "Even though what he did was wrong..." yet I still get accused of approving of it. Maybe it's my English, it is not my native language after all...Caruut said:
I'd just like to him to not ever do it again. I'd like him to really sincerely apologise and truly understand that he has no right to do what he did. I mean, not just apologise because the public is in an uproar, but really see that what he did was a ****ty thing to do.
I love to see other men, his team mates, friends etc say to him "Dude, what you did was crappy, you shouldn't ever do that mate"
I like to see other men in general (eg this forum) see his behaviour as crappy and not a joke and not "boys being boys" and not make excuses for him.
To facilitate change, you just need people to stand up and say "stop doing that, it is inappropriate" and not think it is a joke.
it's easy, just don't pinch a womens **** unless she gives you direct permission. How hard is that?
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