Poll - Do you CARE if Lance doped?

[Darryl Webster]

I mispill porpisly, so that my trooths willn't be so panefull too yoo.

See, you can laugh me off but everything I have said about professional cycling is truth, strange but true.

I love it. By the way I am a big Willie Nelson and Merle Haggard fan also.

They also speak the truth, just listen.

Willie Nelson and Merle Haggard dont speek "the" truth, they speek of truth`s.
There is no "the truth" because truth is contextualy bound.
To inform a truth one must apply an ethic.
You clearly have a problem with that idea or believe in your own smug position as observer of a charade.
Indiferant and aloof.
And very boring.

 

[flicker]

Willie Nelson and Merle Haggard dont speek "the" truth, they speek of truth`s.
There is no "the truth" because truth is contextualy bound.
To inform a truth one must apply an ethic.
You clearly have a problem with that idea or believe in your own smug position as observer of a charade.
Indiferant and aloof.
And very boring.

Darryl I enjoy pro cycling and I see it for what it is, same as you.

I accept it and enjoy the spectacle. People are new to the sport ask me about doping and I say nothing or give them some jibberish they won't understand in Flemish.

Just so not to prejudice them against watching cycling and becoming the fan.

 

[Darryl Webster]

Darryl I enjoy pro cycling and I see it for what it is, same as you.

I accept it and enjoy the spectacle. People are new to the sport ask me about doping and I say nothing or give them some jibberish they won't understand in Flemish.

Just so not to prejudice them against watching cycling and becoming the fan.

Pro cycling is just one small aspect of cycling .
People knowing the truth about pro cycling does not have to negativly effect there enjoyment of cycling as past-time or fan but does help them decide were there gonna cheer.
And TBH, I`d rather they supported some grass roots local event than fawn over the TV set watching a charade.
Cycling most definatly doesnt "Need" pro cycling.

 

[ak-zaaf]

Yes, personally I think the reason the sport is so ****ed is because of Lance. That's why i care that justice is done.

How do you blame Lance for the sport being fucked?
Your basically saying he's the reason for the introduction of EPO and the acceptance of widespread PED use since forever, for Gewiss, for Festina and TVM, Fuentes, Telekom, The UCI vs ASO feud, the way they ruined the cases of Valverde and Pellizotti etc etc

Your giving the guy an awful lot of credit.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Interesting poll.
Gives us a clear demarcation line between fanboys and haters: the definitive difference that is the source of so much debate.

It also highlights the fact that while most fanboys revel in attacking Landis as lying, cheating scum, they share his fundamental values that earned him this particular badge of discouragement.

And just like Landis, the apologists have finally hit rock bottom.

 

[flicker]

Pro cycling is just one small aspect of cycling .
People knowing the truth about pro cycling does not have to negativly effect there enjoyment of cycling as past-time or fan but does help them decide were there gonna cheer.
And TBH, I`d rather they supported some grass roots local event than fawn over the TV set watching a charade.
Cycling most definatly doesnt "Need" pro cycling.

You are right. It is fun and awesome to participate in cycling at an amatuer level. It doesn't attract to large a fan base in the US. I think that amatuers need to look to moving up to being a pro.

Like others have said, if you want to take the dope out of pro cycling, take out the commercialism, million dollar contracts, turn it into small, national, state collegiate teams and of course shorten up the GTs and classics.

If you have a grassroots campaign to do this, put it on the forum and I will be your biggest supporter.

Check out what Victor Conte said today. IMO cycling and all sports need to clean-up at the Olympic level first.

I am the biggest cynic on doping in cycling not because of doping in cycling but doping in the Olympics, it all starts there with the Olympic doping, which the officials look the other way.

 

[ak-zaaf]

Interesting poll.
Gives us a clear demarcation line between fanboys and haters: the definitive difference that is the source of so much debate.

People can have different motives for voting either yes or no. Don't throw me on a pile with the fanboys, tyvm.

I voted no because:
-The poll is wrong: we know Lance doped.
-I honestly don't care that much about doping in cycling history.
-He gained the most from it, so he get's the most shit about it. I get that. Still doesn't make me care about him in particular.
-I don't like his (media) personality. That seems to be the case for most anti-fanboy-fanboys here, but his personality has nothing to do with his doping. 'Everybody doped' is not a fanboy excuse, it's the closest thing to the truth here. If he was able to get the best programs, doctors, soigneurs and DS's....Kudos. He beat his rivals on 2 fronts.
-Him 'pushing' others into doping? Every man is responsible for his own actions. Can't compete with the back of the peloton because you refuse to dope? Sad, but not LA's fault.

Again, I really don't like the guy. The kind of guy who's only nice to you if he needs you for something. Plus I hated his TDF tunnel-vision. He's a seven year stain on the TDF palmares, but do I care that he doped? Again: no, not at all.

 

[Polish]

People are new to the sport ask me about doping and I say nothing or give them some jibberish they won't understand in Flemish.

Just so not to prejudice them against watching cycling and becoming the fan.

"Flemish jibberish" in response to the noob's doping question lol.
Thats a great answer, I will have to try that move too ok?

Usually I tell them that Pro cyclists "only dope when they HAVE to" and leave it at that.

If I'm grumpy and in a hurry, maybe I will try "Dude, are you stupid??"

 

[flicker]

You are right. It is fun and awesome to participate in cycling at an amatuer level. It doesn't attract to large a fan base in the US. I think that amatuers need to look to moving up to being a pro.

Like others have said, if you want to take the dope out of pro cycling, take out the commercialism, million dollar contracts, turn it into small, national, state collegiate teams and of course shorten up the GTs and classics.

If you have a grassroots campaign to do this, put it on the forum and I will be your biggest supporter.

Check out what Victor Conte said today. IMO cycling and all sports need to clean-up at the Olympic level first.

I am the biggest cynic on doping in cycling not because of doping in cycling but doping in the Olympics, it all starts there with the Olympic doping, which the officials look the other way.

We are having a race next Sunday out at the abandoned military base. If you can't fly out for it I am sure it will be televised on EUROSPORT.

If you want amatuer sport, do you really think you will see those sponsors on the right of your computer screen? Or motorcycles and copters televising races.

You can't have it both ways. We are not in the republic formerly known as East Germany.

 

[Jukebox]

I care that he doped, just like I care that any pro athlete doped. The reason that I care about this is because it goes against the rules of sport as well as fair play. Nothing more, nothing less.

His personal dealings are why I dislike the guy.

 

[fujisst]

Frauds are cheaters, cheaters are thieves, and thieves need to be exposed and punished...very simply concept. people that don't care either way, IMO, have been influenced by the 'cult of personality' and would allow LA to get away with practically anything and everything, provided there was reasonable doubt...

"I sell you things
you need to be
I'm the smiling face on your TV
I'm the Cult of Personality
I exploit you,
you still love me.
I tell you one and one makes three
I'm the Cult of Personailty"

excerpted from Living Colour's song "Cult of Personality" from 1988

LA, the brand, is going down - where it should be.

 

[kurtinsc]

Interesting poll.
Gives us a clear demarcation line between fanboys and haters: the definitive difference that is the source of so much debate.

It also highlights the fact that while most fanboys revel in attacking Landis as lying, cheating scum, they share his fundamental values that earned him this particular badge of discouragement.

And just like Landis, the apologists have finally hit rock bottom.

No offense, but this type of reasoning ****es me off.

Some people just don't care that much about doping.

I liked watching Indurain. I liked watching Patani. I liked watching Ulrich. I liked watching Lance. I liked watching Landis that one year. I liked watching Contador.

I believe they all doped... but I simply can't bring myself to care that much.


I'm sorry... I just don't care about doping. I can't see how those of you who DO care can even watch cycling. How can you tolerate even turning the sport on when you know they're all doped up? If it's really such a big moral issue for you... why are you a fan at all?

 

[flatclimb]

I don't care if he did dope. It's the way he went about it which is why I would like to see him go down. Ullrich and Basso paid the price so should he if it turns out he is guilty.

He will probably have a stain on his legacy no matter what the outcome.

 

[veganrob]

In my opinion, the people that don't care are being very selfish. They just want to be entertained and don't care at all about the participants. Sure, let them all get doped up and race till they kill themselves. There will be more to take their place. As long as they are entertained. They don't love cycling, they don't love any sport at all. Just entertain them. Take them out of their own miserable world. The riders are all adults, right. They can do to themselves what they want. They get paid right. Lots of money. Just keep the carousel going.
Problem is, there are young impressionable kids idolizing the riders and want to be just like them. And they are willing to do whatever it takes to make all that money. So they start taking PEDS younger and younger cause they gotta be the best. But only a very small percentage can make it and some lives are ruined along the way. That's ok right, collateral damage. Hey, a person's got to be entertained right.
Lance apologists and dopers apologists make me SICK. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution.
I love cycling and want to be a healthy sport.

 

[kurtinsc]

In my opinion, the people that don't care are being very selfish. They just want to be entertained and don't care at all about the participants. Sure, let them all get doped up and race till they kill themselves. There will be more to take their place. As long as they are entertained. They don't love cycling, they don't love any sport at all. Just entertain them. Take them out of their own miserable world. The riders are all adults, right. They can do to themselves what they want. They get paid right. Lots of money. Just keep the carousel going.
Problem is, there are young impressionable kids idolizing the riders and want to be just like them. And they are willing to do whatever it takes to make all that money. So they start taking PEDS younger and younger cause they gotta be the best. But only a very small percentage can make it and some lives are ruined along the way. That's ok right, collateral damage. Hey, a person's got to be entertained right.
Lance apologists and dopers apologists make me SICK. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution.
I love cycling and want to be a healthy sport.

Why support the sport if this is really your feeling?

By watching televised broadcasts of cycling events, going to cycling based websites, and buying cycling materials marketed by any pro rider... you are feeding the beast you claim to despise.

The money is what drives the doping, and advertising to people like YOU is why the money is there.

Sports IS entertainment. Period. While I hope someone like Robert Downey or Charlie Sheen doesn't do drugs and I would never want them to be a role model for my children... I still can watch movies they are in and be entertained. It's up to me as a parent to make sure my doesn't turn into a drunk, drug users like those two.

Similarly, I can watch cycling with my son and enjoy the sport despite the doping. It's up to me as a PARENT to make sure my son doesn't get on PED's if he goes into the sport with any level of seriousness.


Would I be happy if it were clean? Sure, just like I'd feel somewhat happy if Charlie Sheen cleaned himself up. But I just don't care all that much. If I did... I wouldn't watch cycling because I'd be negatively impacting something I cared about.


Change follows money... and the only way the money points toward clean cycling is if the fans stop watching doped cycling.

 

[Polyarmour]

Why support the sport if this is really your feeling?

By watching televised broadcasts of cycling events, going to cycling based websites, and buying cycling materials marketed by any pro rider... you are feeding the beast you claim to despise.

The money is what drives the doping, and advertising to people like YOU is why the money is there.

Sports IS entertainment. Period. While I hope someone like Robert Downey or Charlie Sheen doesn't do drugs and I would never want them to be a role model for my children... I still can watch movies they are in and be entertained. It's up to me as a parent to make sure my doesn't turn into a drunk, drug users like those two.

Similarly, I can watch cycling with my son and enjoy the sport despite the doping. It's up to me as a PARENT to make sure my son doesn't get on PED's if he goes into the sport with any level of seriousness.


Would I be happy if it were clean? Sure, just like I'd feel somewhat happy if Charlie Sheen cleaned himself up. But I just don't care all that much. If I did... I wouldn't watch cycling because I'd be negatively impacting something I cared about.


Change follows money... and the only way the money points toward clean cycling is if the fans stop watching doped cycling.

Cycling is presented as clean by the organisations that run it. When we watch it we are lead to believe it's clean.

Are Robert Downey's drug binges performance enhancing? I don't think so.

You switch off if you want to, I'd rather keep putting pressure on the dopers. They don't have the right to hijack our sport.

 

[andy1234]

In my opinion, the people that don't care are being very selfish. They just want to be entertained and don't care at all about the participants. Sure, let them all get doped up and race till they kill themselves. There will be more to take their place. As long as they are entertained. They don't love cycling, they don't love any sport at all. Just entertain them. Take them out of their own miserable world. The riders are all adults, right. They can do to themselves what they want. They get paid right. Lots of money. Just keep the carousel going.
Problem is, there are young impressionable kids idolizing the riders and want to be just like them. And they are willing to do whatever it takes to make all that money. So they start taking PEDS younger and younger cause they gotta be the best. But only a very small percentage can make it and some lives are ruined along the way. That's ok right, collateral damage. Hey, a person's got to be entertained right.
Lance apologists and dopers apologists make me SICK. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution.
I love cycling and want to be a healthy sport.

Your post reminds me of the sort of the puritanical stance that god fearing parents took against rock and roll in the 50s and 60s.

I personally prefer led Zep or the Stones over the Osmonds.

 

[veganrob]

Try to address some points

I support the sport because I like it. I never said I despise it at all. I don't like the dopers running it is all.
I don't buy any products because of marketing or athlete endorsements. I am an educated, informed person and will make a decission based on what is right for me. I own a bike shop and encourage all customers to educate themselves also.
i don't think comparing movies to sports is a good analogy though they are both entertainment. One is make believe one is very real. Though they are trying to deceive us. hmmm
You are correct in that we as parents are responsible for educating our children, being a role model and nudging them, sometimes big nudge, in the right direction. I trust you do that. However, not all children are in such a good situation and can be preyed on by people who don't have their best interests at heart.
Last statement "Change follows money" absolutely. It is very hard to stay away for something we all love. I myself do not own a TV so very rarely watch anything. I prefer to ride, run, read, and out at coffee shop. maybe not so productive. whatever.
Cheers
Rob

 

[veganrob]

Your post reminds me of the sort of the puritanical stance that god fearing parents took against rock and roll in the 50s and 60s.

I personally prefer led Zep or the Stones over the Osmonds.

i've seen Led Zep 4 times and Stones twice in the 70's. Awesome, love them. Hopefully you got the chance also.
Not an Osmond fan either.

 

[kurtinsc]

Cycling is presented as clean by the organisations that run it. When we watch it we are lead to believe it's clean.

Are Robert Downey's drug binges performance enhancing? I don't think so.

You switch off if you want to, I'd rather keep putting pressure on the dopers. They don't have the right to hijack our sport.

I guess the disconnect is that the dopers are "hijacking our sport".

For good or bad, right now I believe the dopers ARE the sport. Whatever hijacking was done was well in the past and there's really nobody who isn't involved and aware of the PED culture in the sport anymore. If you are a supporter of cycling, that is what you are supporting. Not cycling circa 1980 (which in itself probably wasn't without some PED usage).

And as for entertainer drug binges being performance enhancing... yeah, they can be. Robin Williams on cocaine was much funnier then the clean Robin Williams we see today. Sly Stallone movies are better when he's roided up real good (which he admits doing). I personally prefer a drugged up Eric Clapton to the clean version.

Although guys with mental illness who get on drugs sometimes get worse. Woody Allen with medication sucks, while Woody Allen without medication was awesome.

 

[bridgeman]

Your post reminds me of the sort of the puritanical stance that god fearing parents took against rock and roll in the 50s and 60s.

I personally prefer led Zep or the Stones over the Osmonds.

I believe the Osmonds doped.

 

[kurtinsc]

i've seen Led Zep 4 times and Stones twice in the 70's. Awesome, love them. Hopefully you got the chance also.
Not an Osmond fan either.

And the fact that they were drugged up and thus influencing children to use drugs doesn't make you think they should be kicked out of the business of music?

 

[Barrus]

And the fact that they were drugged up and thus influencing children to use drugs doesn't make you think they should be kicked out of the business of music?

Aaah, but the question is more was it the drugs that made them good musicians and famous, for example, was it the heroine that made Charlie Parker or Lester Young play them sax so great. In the case of the cycling if you want to get to the top it appears as though you'll need to use doping

 

[ak-zaaf]

And the fact that they were drugged up and thus influencing children to use drugs doesn't make you think they should be kicked out of the business of music?

NO. No no no no no no.

 

[Polish]

I believe the Osmonds doped.

Never tested positive.