Question Poll - is tadej pocagar using a hidden motor?

[Sciatic]

That's they're own problem. Every person is responsible for himself.

I really doubt the top riders are worrying about is own health.

The history says, riders don't care about they're own health.

probably true. But some teams might care enough,

 

[Cookster15]

View: https://youtu.be/gaqBEUkXWtQ?si=jRlFDI1E4opCSX6d

"250 watts...good for 30 minutes." Looks like a normal racing bike, can't tell there's a hidden motor in there whatsoever.

Easily discovered by UCI mechanics. The below was in place ahead of the 2024 TdF.

The UCI unveils its programme to combat doping and technological fraud for the 2024 Tour de France

www.uci.org

After each stage, checks will be carried out on bikes ridden by:

• the stage winner,
• riders wearing a leader’s jersey (yellow, green, polka dot, white),
• several randomly-selected riders, and
• any rider who gives rise to suspicion, for example following the pre-stage control, or incidents picked up by the UCI Video Commissaire.

 

[SorelyBoy]

Anyone checked out this podcast? Apologies if someone has beaten me to it.
Ghost in the Machine
We might have a bigger problem than we think.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

So over 40% of voters think Teddy used a hidden motor during some of his winning rides. I would say that's quite a lot!

 

[SHAD0W93]

Guys I think I've cracked it:

Pogačar is using two motors

Three; one for each wheel and the crank.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Three; one for each wheel and the crank.

Plus two bionic ones they built into his legs

 

[topcat]

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10611401/

They're even cheating in E-cycling.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10611401/

They're even cheating in E-cycling.

So new idea: Pogi has the best programming of his multiple motors. It's a software advantage, powered by UAE money. They probably use experimental quantum computing to create a perfect doping chat-bot as well. This bot, in it's autonomous troll mode is probably Mou. It all starts to make sense!

 

[E_F_]

Easily discovered by UCI mechanics. The below was in place ahead of the 2024 TdF.

The UCI unveils its programme to combat doping and technological fraud for the 2024 Tour de France

www.uci.org

Who are these mechanics? Just above your quote (emphasis mine):

When it comes to the fight against technological fraud at the Tour de France, controls for the presence of any possible propulsion systems hidden in bikes will be carried out with the use of several non-intrusive tools available to the UCI such as magnetic tablets, and portable devices using backscatter and transmission technologies as well as image processing. In 2024, a new non-intrusive inspection tool will be added to the UCI's arsenal as part of the improvement of its detection programme using the latest technology. Further information on this subject will be communicated in due course after the 2024 Tour de France.

No mention of taking apart the bikes. On the contrary. Multiple times they mention how they won't be laying their hands on the bikes - like they're proud of it or something.

 

[Casual cyclist]

Who are these mechanics? Just above your quote (emphasis mine):

No mention of taking apart the bikes. On the contrary. Multiple times they mention how they won't be laying their hands on the bikes - like they're proud of it or something.

Everyone in the modern world not leaving on an asteroid knows that everyone on a paycheck does what he/she is told/paid to do. Thus UCI mechanics find what they are told/paid to find, cops catch whom they are paid/told to catch etc. Apologist folks know that too, but pretend to be ignorant...

 

[Casual cyclist]

View: https://youtu.be/gaqBEUkXWtQ?si=jRlFDI1E4opCSX6d

"250 watts...good for 30 minutes." Looks like a normal racing bike, can't tell there's a hidden motor in there whatsoever.

Note that this a decade-old tech. Not the very cutting edge as well. Still 250W for 30min totally undetectable (from the outside that is). One can easily extrapolate...

 

[AmRacer]

Everyone in the modern world not leaving on an asteroid knows that everyone on a paycheck does what he/she is told/paid to do. Thus UCI mechanics find what they are told/paid to find, cops catch whom they are paid/told to catch etc. Apologist folks know that too, but pretend to be ignorant...

Pogi using e-bike is alternative facts.

 

[Casual cyclist]

Pogi using e-bike is alternative facts.

"Alternative" with respect to the mainstream "narrative". Most definitely. As are many, many other facts corresponding to reality. That's the nature of ideology and propaganda. They would not have been what they are had much of the objective truth not been "alternative" to them.

 

[SorelyBoy]

The very fact that the UCI have introduced checks for motor doping means they think there’s good enough reason to take it somewhat seriously. Whether their countermeasures are good enough however must be in doubt. Further evidence that we have had a serious problem for years is the that there’s a copious amounts of rather suspicious looking footage now available. Bikes spinning under their own power across roads, back wheel furiously spinning. Bikes being picked up after a crash and wheels starting to spin of their own volition. Riders just pulling away from their colleagues at critical moments of the race, without any apparent effort, and in such a manner that just looks incredibly wrong. And now we have a guy winning everything or nearly everything, over a sustained period of years, by now winning every type of races with ridiculous ease, again just seemingly able to accelerate at will and sail away from a field of world class riders. Putting down an apparently ludicrous amount of power to effect a constant acceleration on steep hills or from up to a hundred kilometres from the finish line. Without any apparent additional effort, and not even breathing hard when he finishes. Yeah, right.

 

[Casual cyclist]

The very fact that the UCI have introduced checks for motor doping means they think there’s good enough reason to take it somewhat seriously. Whether their countermeasures are good enough however must be in doubt. Further evidence that we have had a serious problem for years is the that there’s a copious amounts of rather suspicious looking footage now available. Bikes spinning under their own power across roads, back wheel furiously spinning. Bikes being picked up after a crash and wheels starting to spin of their own volition. Riders just pulling away from their colleagues at critical moments of the race, without any apparent effort, and in such a manner that just looks incredibly wrong. And now we have a guy winning everything or nearly everything, over a sustained period of years, by now winning every type of races with ridiculous ease, again just seemingly able to accelerate at will and sail away from a field of world class riders. Putting down an apparently ludicrous amount of power to effect a constant acceleration on steep hills or from up to a hundred kilometres from the finish line. Without any apparent additional effort, and not even breathing hard when he finishes. Yeah, right.

And add to that the funny fact that the UCI leading "motor doping investigator" is the former UAE employee.

 

[Cookster15]

Anyone checked out this podcast? Apologies if someone has beaten me to it.
Ghost in the Machine
We might have a bigger problem than we think.

Yes, was posted here long ago. I'm not impressed and neither would be any court. We need to look at blood doping motors are a distraction.

 

[Casual cyclist]

Yes, was posted here long ago. I'm not impressed and neither would be any court. We need to look at blood doping motors are a distraction.

Please do share the source for that crystal ball you used to come to that conclusion. I certainly would like to have one. And other folks on this forum likely would not mind.

 

[Cookster15]

The very fact that the UCI have introduced checks for motor doping means they think there’s good enough reason to take it somewhat seriously. Whether their countermeasures are good enough however must be in doubt. Further evidence that we have had a serious problem for years is the that there’s a copious amounts of rather suspicious looking footage now available. Bikes spinning under their own power across roads, back wheel furiously spinning. Bikes being picked up after a crash and wheels starting to spin of their own volition. Riders just pulling away from their colleagues at critical moments of the race, without any apparent effort, and in such a manner that just looks incredibly wrong. And now we have a guy winning everything or nearly everything, over a sustained period of years, by now winning every type of races with ridiculous ease, again just seemingly able to accelerate at will and sail away from a field of world class riders. Putting down an apparently ludicrous amount of power to effect a constant acceleration on steep hills or from up to a hundred kilometres from the finish line. Without any apparent additional effort, and not even breathing hard when he finishes. Yeah, right.

So why don't the trained UCI mechanics find motors in Pogacar's bike after it has been inspected many times? The UCI introduced motor checks after that woman MTBer was caught - being proactive as if motors got used it could destroy the entire sport. UCI introducing motor doping checks doesn't mean motor use is happening in the peloton.

FYI, none of this is evidence:

Bikes spinning under their own power across roads, back wheel furiously spinning. Bikes being picked up after a crash and wheels starting to spin of their own volition

The hidden motor conspiratorists would do much better to look into how the UCI passport is ineffective at detecting blood manipulation or is not being used to its full effect. I would think people here claiming to have PhD's (not you) would go down that path rather than Lee Harvey Oswald type conspiracy theories. With a PhD we should have enough thinking skills to work out how the passport could be circumvented. Might require reading some science papers though.

 

[E_F_]

The UCI introduced motor checks after that woman MTBer was caught

Yeah, no wonder you weren't convinced by Ghost in the Machine... She wasn't an MTB'er, but a CX'er - and also she was a junior, so a girl rather than a woman. And her getting caught didn't lead to "motor checks" (to the limited extend those word fit), she was caught on the very first day of motor checks being carried out. With some ridiculously simple and obvious motor, so the UCI have no track record of having ever caught an even slightly sophisticated motor.

 

[Cookster15]

Yeah, no wonder you weren't convinced by Ghost in the Machine... She wasn't an MTB'er, but a CX'er - and also she was a junior, so a girl rather than a woman. And her getting caught didn't lead to "motor checks" (to the limited extend those word fit), she was caught on the very first day of motor checks being carried out. With some ridiculously simple and obvious motor, so the UCI have no track record of having ever caught an even slightly sophisticated motor.

Blood manipulation not motor doping. I think you are wasting your time.

 

[Ripper]

The very fact that the UCI have introduced checks for motor doping means they think there’s good enough reason to take it somewhat seriously. Whether their countermeasures are good enough however must be in doubt. Further evidence that we have had a serious problem for years is the that there’s a copious amounts of rather suspicious looking footage now available. Bikes spinning under their own power across roads, back wheel furiously spinning. Bikes being picked up after a crash and wheels starting to spin of their own volition. Riders just pulling away from their colleagues at critical moments of the race, without any apparent effort, and in such a manner that just looks incredibly wrong. And now we have a guy winning everything or nearly everything, over a sustained period of years, by now winning every type of races with ridiculous ease, again just seemingly able to accelerate at will and sail away from a field of world class riders. Putting down an apparently ludicrous amount of power to effect a constant acceleration on steep hills or from up to a hundred kilometres from the finish line. Without any apparent additional effort, and not even breathing hard when he finishes. Yeah, right.

One thing I do look forward to - with technology, something eventually always goes wrong (like very wrong). So, if motor doping is taking place, then at some point, something comical will likely be seen. Could you imagine some smoke, or the bike suddenly reversing the wheel direction?

 

[Casual cyclist]

One thing I do look forward to - with technology, something eventually always goes wrong (like very wrong). So, if motor doping is taking place, then at some point, something comical will likely be seen. Could you imagine some smoke, or the bike suddenly reversing the wheel direction?

Smoke will be easily "explained" by a short. Do not forget that modern bikes are already fully "legally" stuffed with battery-powered equipment: from shifters to transponders to god knows what else.

Edit: P.S. And wheels spinning on their own have been observed already. People even posted some videos recently here.
So, did the sky fall? I haven't noticed if it did.

 

[Casual cyclist]

Blood manipulation not motor doping. I think you are wasting your time.

It's good that you at least use that qualifier "I think". What can I say? Sadly, this time around, you think wrong. The thing is the Muur de Huy seated searing attack that made all other world class hilly specialists look like "they were on their brakes" put all dots on i's even if those dots could be still considered missing (I think they were already there, for one).

Simply put, no blood manipulation can endow one with such superhuman muscular strength so that he can exert well in excess of his body weight worth of force on the pedals seated and thus bracing himself with what has to amount to a weightlifter-like strength with a pair of matchstick-like arms. Simple mechanics -- not even physiology -- does not allow for such miracles. Check our (with forum member Divergence) recent analysis of that Muur acceleration episode.

 

[zlev11]

Blood manipulation not motor doping. I think you are wasting your time.

blood manipulation within the parameters of the passport doesn't get you to go 4 minutes faster than Pantani. yes the passport is a joke but it does put some kind of restrictor plate on how extreme you can get. guys blood doping with unlimited off-scores in the early 2000's weren't even getting close to his time on PdB. something very obviously does not add up. the only possibility is that there is some way you can jack your hematocrit up to 60% again, which I doubt.

 

[Nomad]

The hidden motor conspiratorists would do much better to look into how the UCI passport is ineffective at detecting blood manipulation or is not being used to its full effect. I would think people here claiming to have PhD's (not you) would go down that path rather than Lee Harvey Oswald type conspiracy theories. With a PhD we should have enough thinking skills to work out how the passport could be circumvented. Might require reading some science papers though.

The ABP is ineffective at detecting very small amounts of blood transfusions. Anything on a larger scale will be detected by the system (the ABP is particularly sensitive to the re-infusion phase where Hct/Hgb increases and RET% decreases).

I haven't found any scientific papers where large amounts of blood doping can circumvent the ABP. The often cited Asheden paper on microdosing EPO is just that - very small doses of EPO that wasn't detected by the ABP.

The 2015 "hyperhydration" study showed drinking 1000 ml of water (33.9 ounces or 1 liter) immediately after the event - reduced OFF-hr by only ∼ 4%, ∼ 3%, and ∼ 2% at 40, 60, and 80 min (a 4% reduction in OFF-score isn't that much).

Acute hyperhydration reduces athlete biological passport OFF-hr score - PubMed

Anecdotal evidence suggests that athletes hyperhydrate to mask prohibited substances in urine and potentially counteract suspicious fluctuations in blood parameters in the athlete biological passport (ABP). It is examined if acute hyperhydration changes parameters included in the ABP. Twenty...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Are you aware of any other studies that discuss techniques & strategies in blood doping that can circumvent the current ABP?