Poll: Ullrich vs Schleck

[jordan5000]

Very true, by the way I doubt you`re a fat climber, if you climb for too long you can`t be too fat

 

[McLovin]

Ulrich, currently under investigation, maybe he loses all his seconds and the win.

The results of the current Armstrong investigation could drop off 4 of ulrich's seconds and change them to wins.

There is prescription, and in sport I think it's 7 years. So after that you can write a book and say you won with a Subaru motor inside your frame, they can't do a thing.

 

[SiAp1984]

Ulle is a legend with a TdF and Vuelta win besides his 'eternal seconds'.

Don't forget Ullrichs two ITT-Worldchampionships and Olympic Gold...

Topic: The sensational thing about Ullrich is that his worst-ever TdF-finish was fourth (!). I am not sure (I just don't know) if there is any other TdF-champion with such record, and Andy cannot do so any more. Unfortunately, Ullrich only won once (would have deserved it in 2003, anyway), and Andy can still achieve that (and even more). Don't count him out. He might be the best climber among the Tour contenders (with or without AC).

Footnote: As to "clinic stuff", as long as AC-fanboys are around here, even Ricco could legimately still be praised as the best climber of his generation So it is still OK to describe Ullrich as a champion.

 

[jens_attacks]

2013 will be the 100th edition of the tour, so I imagine they'll place lots of big mountains in there to celebrate the anniversary and if they do I think Andy can win.

indeed it will be like 2003,some 6 epic mountain stages,my guess:hautacam will be back for a showdown also alpe d'huez itt.unfortantely for the schlecks there will be two itt's again i'm sure

 

[McLovin]

indeed it will be like 2003,some 6 epic mountain stages,my guess:hautacam will be back for a showdown also alpe d'huez itt.unfortantely for the schlecks there will be two itt's again i'm sure

IMO there will be Hautacam and a new climb (mtf or dh after it) in Pyrenees, and in Alpes, Alpe d'Huez, an easy one ( like Courchevell or Tignes) and a stage in Morzine with Joux-Plane. Last TT could be on Ventoux.

Off: I watched again last night the Romme-Colombier stage from 2009. That was sick. That kind of riding would make a random Giro route awsome.

 

[airstream]

Guys, why you present the Contador's TdF'09 victory as kind of double feat, if its obvious this fact rather helped than hindered him? He has never been so full of sporting rage. One more argument to denigrate Andy, right?

 

[Swabian Lass]

Problem is, unless there's a Tour with not ITTs I can't see Andy beating Contador. I'm not sure that even the Hog can improve his TT to the extent it would need to improve. If Contador isn't around next year, that might help - but I think it'll help Wiggins and Evans more than Andy next year.

If 2013 lives up to expectations Andy might be in with a chance. I can't see us having a TdF without any ITT at all, though, so he's have to put enough time into the other to hang on in an ITT. Not impossible as long as his TT improves.

 

[Descender]

I had a dream about Andy destroying the field in 2012 with attacks from miles away. Seriously, I did.

 

[McLovin]

I had a dream about Andy destroying the field in 2012 with attacks from miles away. Seriously, I did.

Me too. But judging by the red streets, I think it was in Eneco. I'm mad cause I can't remember the graphics on top right of the screen and see what race it was.

 

[Siriuscat]

Guys, why you present the Contador's TdF'09 victory as kind of double feat, if its obvious this fact rather helped than hindered him? He has never been so full of sporting rage. One more argument to denigrate Andy, right?

Thing is Airstream, he wasn't "full of sporting rage" he was calm and placid and did his job while those around him did everything possible to scupper him!

 

[airstream]

Thing is Airstream, he wasn't "full of sporting rage" he was calm and placid and did his job while those around him did everything possible to scupper him!

All that can be understood very differently. I think, the fact that Astana was divided, affected on Contador in a positive way. He just was motivated more than ever and wanted to prove his superiority, especially under conditions prevailing inside of the team.

 

[Matthijs]

All that can be understood very differently. I think, the fact that Astana was divided, affected on Contador in a positive way. He just was motivated more than ever and wanted to prove his superiority, especially under conditions prevailing inside of the team.

not trusting your own team made contador stronger???

 

[airstream]

not trusting your own team made contador stronger???

Not trusting in what? The riders worked on the team, not on LA. Or if you like, helping him they helped Contador. Yes, in my opinion it partly made ​​him stronger.

 

[The Hitch]

I think the team helped Contador more than it hurt him.

Reason.

the ttt put him way ahead of all his rivals.

He was already ahead thanks to the itt, but this gave him an extra 40 seconds over Schleck I think and minutes over 1 or 2 others.

After that he didnt really need a team to defend the lead. And was free to own everyone on the uphill finishes and ttts should he please.

Not that it really mattered, Contador was by far the strongest rider that year, and no one was going to touch him.

 

[Fatclimber]

I don't see Andy winning a Tour. Last year was his opportunity, but he wasn't good enough. He also didn't seem to have the form he had in 2010.

Now that the TdF returned to more TT kilometres he won't have a chance to win it. He could give it 1 more shot, but I would really suggest him to ride the Giro. A race he could win multiple times if he focused on it.
What's better? 5 2nd places in the TdF or 2 Giro wins? I'd go with winning the Giro.

The Giro ship may have already sailed for him now that Zomegnan is no longer running the show. Unless it's the "lesser competition" aspect that you're focusing on. Aside from the sheer nastiness of the Zoncolan and the Mortirolo, the Giro will most likely be another TDF from now on.

Andy is young, there is at least a handful of second places left in him. I think he can win one day though, he's like the Armstrong of 2009; no matter how poor his form looks or how many of his own teammates can tt better than him, he's still right there on the podium when it's all said and done.

 

[Parrulo]

The Giro ship may have already sailed for him now that Zomegnan is no longer running the show. Unless it's the "lesser competition" aspect that you're focusing on. Aside from the sheer nastiness of the Zoncolan and the Mortirolo, the Giro will most likely be another TDF from now on.

Andy is young, there is at least a handful of second places left in him. I think he can win one day though, he's like the Armstrong of 2009; no matter how poor his form looks or how many of his own teammates can tt better than him, he's still right there on the podium when it's all said and done.

ya the giro mountain stages are getting very tour likeish

 

[Angliru]

Keep it real please. Ullrich is indeed a legend and he killed me as I supported him in all those 2nd's to LA But why dis Schleck other than to get on the anti-Andy bandwagon that is this forum. Schleck IS a rider and other than Contador is the most talented GC rider in this generation. The fact that he is as thick as two planks when it comes to tactics does not merit the hate on this forum.

Not the "hate", which has become a widely abused and applied general term, but certainly his whining about that descent's shouldn't decide a Tour, the lack of motivation and pretty much abandoning of his domestique duties to Frank in the 2010 Vuelta and his inability to accept responsibility for chaingate are reasons enough to merit the losing of a bit of respect for him as a competitor?

 

[Midnightfright]

Can't we just get a Andy Schleck is Smuchk, what a whiner we all hate him thread stickied? That way we can contain it instead of it polluting every thread on him, contador, Gts, his team and or teamates , any retired GC riders or timetrials.

 

[Angliru]

Ullrich is a TDF Champion.

Exactly and has won another grand tour, at least one week-long stage race, and a WC in the ITT. An added plus is he wasn't a whiner.

 

[Angliru]

Don't forget Ullrichs two ITT-Worldchampionships and Olympic Gold...

Topic: The sensational thing about Ullrich is that his worst-ever TdF-finish was fourth (!). I am not sure (I just don't know) if there is any other TdF-champion with such record, and Andy cannot do so any more. Unfortunately, Ullrich only won once (would have deserved it in 2003, anyway), and Andy can still achieve that (and even more). Don't count him out. He might be the best climber among the Tour contenders (with or without AC).

Footnote: As to "clinic stuff", as long as AC-fanboys are around here, even Ricco could legimately still be praised as the best climber of his generation So it is still OK to describe Ullrich as a champion.

Well let a Contador "fanboy" chime in here since you insisted. In what alternate universe is Ricco praised as the best climber of his generation? I'm assuming you're basing this on the 2008 Giro where with a cracked elbow and minimal prep (deny that as you like, it was true) Contador still won. If you're going to use that as an example of Ricco's climbing superiority over Contador then you'd have to include all the others that finished ahead of him on various mtf's in that Giro. Kind of puts your argument into a death spiral doesn't it?

Andy has yet to show that he is Contador's better in the mountains when they both are at their best. If your argument is that this year's Tour is an example in support of your belief then you just may be as delusional as Evans appears to be in believing Contador is no longer the force that he was.

 

[airstream]

The thing is you're able to treat almost everything against Schleck if you don't like him so much. Experts watched the chaingate video many many times and concluded Andy was not to blame for that case. He didn't touch his handlebars. Moreover, if the TdF were decided that way to favor of Schleck, Contador wouldn't act otherwise, because it's a real sports drama. I bet, you would hate Schleck even more if he won. No matter how it could happen. As far as I can see, hating Schleck became kind of a form of life on the forum.

 

[El Pistolero]

The thing is you're able to treat almost everything against Schleck if you don't like him so much. Experts watched the chaingate video many many times and concluded Andy was not to blame for that case. He didn't touch his handlebars. Moreover, if the TdF were decided that way to favor of Schleck, Contador wouldn't act otherwise, because it's a real sports drama. I bet, you would hate Schleck even more if he won. No matter how it could happen. As far as I can see, hating Schleck became kind of a form of life on the forum.

Schleck changed gears and his chain popped. You don't need to be an expert to see his mistake. He has done it multiple times already.

 

[HL2037]

Thing is Airstream, he wasn't "full of sporting rage" he was calm and placid and did his job while those around him did everything possible to scupper him!

I have been a fan of Contador ever since. It is inconceivable how much mental strength it must have taken to handle that situation. Being the target of master bullies LA and JB with decades of experience in playing dirty tricks and the press on their side. Having to live in the same hotel, eating all meals with them etc. I wonder how many other "champions" would have been able to win a tour under such circumstances. Certainly not Andy.

 

[Angliru]

The thing is you're able to treat almost everything against Schleck if you don't like him so much. Experts watched the chaingate video many many times and concluded Andy was not to blame for that case. He didn't touch his handlebars. Moreover, if the TdF were decided that way to favor of Schleck, Contador wouldn't act otherwise, because it's a real sports drama. I bet, you would hate Schleck even more if he won. No matter how it could happen. As far as I can see, hating Schleck became kind of a form of life on the forum.

I'm assuming you mean that he supposedly didn't touch his shifters. I doubt he was attacking with his hands tied behind his back.

Not just Chaingate but the responsibility of accepting that dropping his chain didn't lose him the Tour but his abysmal prologue performance of which he always fails to mention. I was intrigued by his show of talent at the 2007 Giro and was excited that a new major talent had surfaced. I was a bit disappointed that he blew his chance to contend in 2008 when he appeared to be the strongest in the mountains. Since that time he's been on a continuous decline in terms of my personal motivation to root for his success.

While it is hammered into us by the media that he and his brother are the nicest guys and easiest riders to root for in the professional peloton, that is not the way that I see it. While Frank is generally okay with me, Andy, for the list of reasons I posted plus many more that I have likely listed in the past, is not the type of rider that I can root for and will not until he takes his thumb out of his mouth so to speak and grows up. There is a certain something that is lacking in him that I can't get over. That's just me though. He's obviously the golden boy to most of the cycling press and fans the world over. I just am not on that bandwagon.

Additionally it's not just here that he's not fawned over like the 2nd coming of Eddy Merckx. There are the rare cycling journalist and former pro's that are quite critical of Andy's statements to media, lack of tactical sense and seeming indifference when it comes to showing himself in any times of the year that aren't the end of April and the month of July.

 

[Parrulo]

The thing is you're able to treat almost everything against Schleck if you don't like him so much. Experts watched the chaingate video many many times and concluded Andy was not to blame for that case. He didn't touch his handlebars. Moreover, if the TdF were decided that way to favor of Schleck, Contador wouldn't act otherwise, because it's a real sports drama. I bet, you would hate Schleck even more if he won. No matter how it could happen. As far as I can see, hating Schleck became kind of a form of life on the forum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe7wpDjGHXU

ya bro he so wasn't changing the front ring gear the exact moment the chain popped. . . .

jesus christ there is even a video of the 2008 vuelta when contador attacks mosquera and perico explains during the attack that he was clearly careful when changing the front ring gear so he wouldn't drop it while andy changed it going full gas so he dropped it. i am also pretty sure that perico delgado knows much more about bikes then the so called unnamed experts you are "quoting"

in case you still don't get it the chain popped because it was under too much "stress" from the power applied by the rider and the fact that it was too much crossed(big ring at the front on the outside and big ring at the back on the inside) in the 2008 vuelta contador realizes this and sits lowers the amount of pressure he is putting on the pedals and carefully changes the front ring, andy does it while putting all his power and the chain simply slipped past the crank.

you get it now? and yes i know it will be hard to get mostly because of the very poor grammar i feel like i have used on this entire post(this sentence included)