Power Data Estimates for the climbing stages

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Gesink today on the final climb, 446W and 1883 VAM for 11m29

That was not enough to be in the first group though.

Pinot, 11m00 and 416W and VAM 1966.. Not bad

So Gesink has to put out 30W and still gets dropped. His length/weight doesn't help.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Any chance this thread can get back to discussing power estimates from climbing data?

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Re:

Any chance this thread can get back to discussing power estimates from climbing data?

Please could a moderator cleanse it of the recent off-topic posts.
IMO this is an important thread and it would be nice if it retained its high signal-to-noise ratio

 

[sittingbison]

Re: Re:

Any chance this thread can get back to discussing power estimates from climbing data?

Please could a moderator cleanse it of the recent off-topic posts.
IMO this is an important thread and it would be nice if it retained its high signal-to-noise ratio

yes to both

tour hasn't started yet gents

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Gesink on Mur de Huy, 557W, 3m30, max around 570W.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Mur de Bretagne: 520W for 4m13s. Again Gesink

 

[motty89]

Re:

Mur de Bretagne: 520W for 4m13s. Again Gesink

any idea how much gesink weighs?

 

[meat puppet]

a couple kilos shy of 70 would be my guess, maybe dekker has a more accurate one.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

His peak weight is 68kg

 

[motty89]

Re:

His peak weight is 68kg

thanks, so it was aroung 7.6W/kg to stay with the top group. Not looking good for nibali if he can't hold that for 4 minutes

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

https://www.strava.com/activities/345923267/overview#_=_

https://www.strava.com/activities/345923267/segments/8223093781
Gesink, 409W on the final climb.
Nothing short of exceptional. The fact that Froome pulled out 1'30 on him is really mind boggling

 

[jens_attacks]

Is 6,2 w/kg in such a easy stage really that mind-boggling?

what i hope we'll really find in the years to come is what happened to the other teams and riders on the rest day and why only sky performed as expected.

 

[enCYCLOpedia]

Interesting comments on the leaked power data from Ross Tucker: http://sportsscientists.com/2015/07/long-live-transparency-the-data-video-controversy/

Also, I was hoping to read Michele Ferrari's take on this. Unfortunately, his website which was running on Sunday, seems to be down today: http://www.53x12.com

As for the 2015 TdF, it was interesting for a week...

Tucker estimates Froome's performance today at 6,2 W/kg for 41 minutes, and has just posted his thoughts on this "one more pixel" of evidence: http://sportsscientists.com/2015/07/day-1-in-the-mountains-one-more-pixel-context-mistrust/

 

[motty89]

I know ross tucker talked about around 6.2-6.4 being the physiological limit but is that rested at sea level or at altitude in 2nd/3rd week of tdf? imo there's quite a big difference

 

[hrotha]

Re:

Is 6,2 w/kg in such a easy stage really that mind-boggling?

what i hope we'll really find in the years to come is what happened to the other teams and riders on the rest day and why only sky performed as expected.

If only Sky performed as expected, shouldn't that tell you that the conditions weren't conducive to as good performances as previously thought and, therefore, that Sky did do extraordinarily well?

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

Is 6,2 w/kg in such a easy stage really that mind-boggling?

what i hope we'll really find in the years to come is what happened to the other teams and riders on the rest day and why only sky performed as expected.

You know this guy was doing 5.3 watts/kg a few years back anyway. Now I want to know what kind of training he did to get to 6.2 w/kg.

6.2 w/kg is borderline for 40+minutes

 

[Escarabajo]

Interesting comments on the leaked power data from Ross Tucker: http://sportsscientists.com/2015/07/long-live-transparency-the-data-video-controversy/

Also, I was hoping to read Michele Ferrari's take on this. Unfortunately, his website which was running on Sunday, seems to be down today: http://www.53x12.com

As for the 2015 TdF, it was interesting for a week...

Tucker estimates Froome's performance today at 6,2 W/kg for 41 minutes, and has just posted his thoughts on this "one more pixel" of evidence: http://sportsscientists.com/2015/07/day-1-in-the-mountains-one-more-pixel-context-mistrust/

These people sound pi$$ed off!!!
Gesink: 5.8 kg/w
Quintana:5.9 kg/w
Froome: 6.2 kg/w

For 41 minutes, making some conservative assumptions (that is, weighted in favour the rider), that implies a VO2max over 90 ml/kg/min, but more likely mid-90s, because he’d need to be riding at a super high % of max for it to be any lower. Or he must be 25 to 26% efficient, something documented and disputed only once before. And of course, the combination of super high VO2max and high efficiency is, by definition, rare. Too many ifs and buts, however, so moving along…

 

[jens_attacks]

Re: Re:

Is 6,2 w/kg in such a easy stage really that mind-boggling?

what i hope we'll really find in the years to come is what happened to the other teams and riders on the rest day and why only sky performed as expected.

If only Sky performed as expected, shouldn't that tell you that the conditions weren't conducive to as good performances as previously thought and, therefore, that Sky did do extraordinarily well?

the conditions were good
i'm still intrigued why all the other teams except sky didn't recover like the peloton used to after 1993, in the rest day. i'm pretty amazed by the whole situation...maybe they will in the next stages, god knows what happened.
big lol at the french.

 

[SafeBet]

Re: Re:

the conditions were good
i'm still intrigued why all the other teams except sky didn't recover like the peloton used to after 1993, in the rest day. i'm pretty amazed by the whole situation...maybe they will in the next stages, god knows what happened.
big lol at the french.

what's your take on it jens?

some of those performances were astonishigly bad. some riders almost looked clean indeed.

 

[jens_attacks]

Re: Re:

the conditions were good
i'm still intrigued why all the other teams except sky didn't recover like the peloton used to after 1993, in the rest day. i'm pretty amazed by the whole situation...maybe they will in the next stages, god knows what happened.
big lol at the french.

what's your take on it jens?

some of those performances were astonishigly bad. some riders almost looked clean indeed.

many teams directors gathering in a hotel
"hey let's all make a truce, no recovery in the rest day today, let's make team sky look really ridiculous."



no idea to be serious, seems like team sky didn't get the memo or didn't care about it or something

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

It looked like a tailwind - each non held flag I could see on the TV was flapping lightly in a direction in support of the riders. That would inflate power estimates based on ascent rate by perhaps 0.2 - 0.4W/kg.

 

[pedromiguelmartins]

Re:

It looked like a tailwind - each non held flag I could see on the TV was flapping lightly in a direction in support of the riders. That would inflate power estimates based on ascent rate by perhaps 0.2 - 0.4W/kg.

Looks like the tailwind only helped the bots.

Or do you lack so much knowledge to realize that the number "6,1W" matters as much as "5W" and "1432W"? It's about in what conditions it was done, how much time, etc. If a guy that was previously banned, is winning all sorts of races since a very young age, wins 9GTs, rides for Liberty Seguros, Once, Discovery and Tinkoff, and loses so many minutes to Froome, Porte and Thomas, just like previously winners and contenders also get obliterated, you have any info you need to formulate a decent opinion.

It may not be enough to arrest a bunch of people at sky, but it should be a start to investigate this way deeper and ban them from the sport.

 

[DBotero]

Re: Re:

the conditions were good
i'm still intrigued why all the other teams except sky didn't recover like the peloton used to after 1993, in the rest day. i'm pretty amazed by the whole situation...maybe they will in the next stages, god knows what happened.
big lol at the french.

what's your take on it jens?

some of those performances were astonishigly bad. some riders almost looked clean indeed.

many teams directors gathering in a hotel
"hey let's all make a truce, no recovery in the rest day today, let's make team sky look really ridiculous."



no idea to be serious, seems like team sky didn't get the memo or didn't care about it or something

I think Movistar did pretty good too,the surprise for Sky was that G. wasn't dropped and Porte's comeback.I think Quintana will improve as the race go on.

 

[Knutsen]

Re: Re:

Is 6,2 w/kg in such a easy stage really that mind-boggling?

what i hope we'll really find in the years to come is what happened to the other teams and riders on the rest day and why only sky performed as expected.

If only Sky performed as expected, shouldn't that tell you that the conditions weren't conducive to as good performances as previously thought and, therefore, that Sky did do extraordinarily well?

the conditions were good
i'm still intrigued why all the other teams except sky didn't recover like the peloton used to after 1993, in the rest day. i'm pretty amazed by the whole situation...maybe they will in the next stages, god knows what happened.
big lol at the french.

The possibility of night time testing?

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re: Re:

It looked like a tailwind - each non held flag I could see on the TV was flapping lightly in a direction in support of the riders. That would inflate power estimates based on ascent rate by perhaps 0.2 - 0.4W/kg.

Looks like the tailwind only helped the bots.

?
I'm simply pointing out that it looked like a bit of tailwind assist and as a result W/kg estimates might be a bit inflated. I said nothing about this only applying to particular riders.

Or do you lack so much knowledge to realize that the number "6,1W" matters as much as "5W" and "1432W"?

With all due respect, I'd say my knowledge of power output, power meters, and relevant factors is superior to most people on this forum, but not all of course. You might want to read some of my 10 years of blog posts on the topic of power output and associated matters.

It's about in what conditions it was done, how much time, etc. If a guy that was previously banned, is winning all sorts of races since a very young age, wins 9GTs, rides for Liberty Seguros, Once, Discovery and Tinkoff, and loses so many minutes to Froome, Porte and Thomas, just like previously winners and contenders also get obliterated, you have any info you need to formulate a decent opinion.

Or being unable to back up from a very tough Giro? Context indeed.