Power Data Estimates for the climbing stages

[Red Rick]

Any numbers for todays Vuelta stage? Stage was weird, climb was weird, racing was weird, gaps were big. Really want to know some numbers

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

Any numbers for todays Vuelta stage? Stage was weird, climb was weird, racing was weird, gaps were big. Really want to know some numbers

ammattipyöräily ‏@ammattipyoraily 3 Std.
#LaVuelta, Stage 2. Alto de la Mesa
Esteban Chaves: 10 min 00 sec = VAM 1890 m/h

 

[Red Rick]

Any crazy power outputs today?

 

[May0maniac]

ammattipyöräily ‏@ammattipyoraily

#LV2015, Stage 9. MTF Alto de Puig Llorenca (3.86 km, 9.61 %)
"6.50 W/kg [DrF]" = 11 min 34 sec

Tom Dumoulin: 11 min 37 sec

According to the Chicken: VAM 1916 m/h

 

[ppanther92]

Re:

ammattipyöräily ‏@ammattipyoraily

#LV2015, Stage 9. MTF Alto de Puig Llorenca (3.86 km, 9.61 %)
"6.50 W/kg [DrF]" = 11 min 34 sec

Tom Dumoulin: 11 min 37 sec

According to the Chicken: VAM 1916 m/h

Pretty much the same as Henao and Zakarin on Arrate earlier this year.

 

[BrentonOfTheNorth]

6w/kg for an hour is equivalent to [??] for 10 minutes?
There was a lot of marking and slowing down... could have been climbed significantly faster.

 

[Escarabajo]

Not sure what can be concluded from such a short effort. Maybe if we compare the times to other eras would be better.

 

[acoggan]

Re:

6w/kg for an hour is equivalent to [??] for 10 minutes?

6.72 +/- 0.30 W/kg.

 

[May0maniac]

ammattipyöräily ‏@ammattipyoraily
#LV2015, Stage 11. Cortals d'Encamp (8.50 km, 8.91 %, 757 m)
Fabio Aru: 27 min 29 sec, 18.56 Kph, VAM 1653 m/h, 5.72 W/kg [DrF]

ammattipyöräily ‏@ammattipyoraily 3
#LV2015, Stage 11. Mikel Landa climbed Cortals d'Encamp approx. as fast as Daniel Moreno and Joaquim Rodriguez

The climb is 8,7 km@ 9,2% in the roadbook, so maybe Aru's performance was even better.

 

[BrentonOfTheNorth]

Re: Re:

6w/kg for an hour is equivalent to [??] for 10 minutes?

6.72 +/- 0.30 W/kg.

Thank you!

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

ammattipyöräily ‏@ammattipyoraily
#LV2015, Stage 11. Cortals d'Encamp (8.50 km, 8.91 %, 757 m)
Fabio Aru: 27 min 29 sec, 18.56 Kph, VAM 1653 m/h, 5.72 W/kg [DrF]

ammattipyöräily ‏@ammattipyoraily 3
#LV2015, Stage 11. Mikel Landa climbed Cortals d'Encamp approx. as fast as Daniel Moreno and Joaquim Rodriguez

The climb is 8,7 km@ 9,2% in the roadbook, so maybe Aru's performance was even better.

Cool thank you

Best comparison I think is Quintana on La Toussuire, which I think was a tiny bit lower, although that stage was raced a lot harder and Quintana waited incredibly long to attack on that climb.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Ian Boswells Stage 11 data article

http://www.teamsky.com/teamsky/news/article/64932#2e5LacexvtlPk8Jf.97

Having ridden for four hours at an average of 284 watts, Boswell came to the final climb of the day, the Category 1 Alto Els Cortals d'Encamp. For 40 minutes his Normalized Power® was 339 watts while averaging 20.3km/h

earlier they said 90 Minute Power of 312 watts, or 4.58w/kg
So a simple estimate of the final climbs comes out at 339/312 * 4.58 = 4.98 w/Kg

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re:

Ian Boswells Stage 11 data article

http://www.teamsky.com/teamsky/news/article/64932#2e5LacexvtlPk8Jf.97

Having ridden for four hours at an average of 284 watts, Boswell came to the final climb of the day, the Category 1 Alto Els Cortals d'Encamp. For 40 minutes his Normalized Power® was 339 watts while averaging 20.3km/h

earlier they said 90 Minute Power of 312 watts, or 4.58w/kg
So a simple estimate of the final climbs comes out at 339/312 * 4.58 = 4.98 w/Kg

Just a small comment (yes I know this was just napkin maths example, but for others that may not be aware):

For such calculations, you'd generally want the average power value, not a normalized power value.

Average power will be less than or equal to normalized power (except over occasional short durations due to algorithm anomalies). How much less depends on a few things, in particular how variable the effort is, and the duration, depth, number and frequency of any surges or attacks.

In the case of long and steady efforts, AP and NP won't be significantly different and so using NP as an upper limit to AP is valid. If a ride was more variable in effort terms, then then NP/AP ratio can be well over 100%.

 

[Red Rick]

Numbers for today's final climb? I'm guessing they're pretty low?

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

Numbers for today's final climb? I'm guessing they're pretty low?

I would have guessed the same, but apparently Landa set a great pace.

ammattipyöräily ‏@ammattipyoraily 58 Min.

#LV2015, Stage 16. Alto Ermita de Alba (6.70 km, 11.33 %, 759 m)
Joaquim Rodriguez: 24 min 57 sec, 16.11 Kph, VAM 1825 m/h
I know, It's just a 25min effort, but after la Cobertoria, in a hard stage and at the end of the 2nd week and on the 3rd MTF in a row it's impressive.

 

[webvan]

Nice pace indeed, what's strange is that so many guys were able to hang on for such a long time. I suppose it's because it was a fast steady pace. With a hard attack in the bottom, several groups would probably have paced themselves separately.

 

[Cookster15]

Re:

Nice pace indeed, what's strange is that so many guys were able to hang on for such a long time. I suppose it's because it was a fast steady pace. With a hard attack in the bottom, several groups would probably have paced themselves separately.

Steady pace would have helped Dumoulin. The fact all the climbers were tired actually helped Dumoulin put himself in a position to possibly win the Vuelta.

 

[Red Rick]

Does anyone have an idea what the W/kg of the gruppetto typically are?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Re:

Does anyone have an idea what the W/kg of the gruppetto typically are?

Ask Team SKY for Froome's pre - 2011 Vuelta numbers and you will have your answer

https://mariposabicycles.ca/blog/2011/05/19/620/

http://www.srm.de/news/road-cycling/le-tour-de-france-stage-18..

and so on...

The grupetto races like hell on the descends though.

 

[vedrafjord]

https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily has some Vuelta numbers:

These are obviously interesting, but with the two caveats that:
* in stage 7 you have seven riders who finished together all getting the same watts/kg, which means their weight has been ignored, which is one of the things we're most interested in for e.g. Quintana vs Dumoulin
* short climbs e.g. stage 16 have higher watts as you'd expect, and multi mountain stages have lower watts for the final climb, which is all good when looking at individual climbs, but it means that the difficulty of the course is a big influence on what the 5 climb average is.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily has some Vuelta numbers:

These are obviously interesting, but with the two caveats that:
* in stage 7 you have seven riders who finished together all getting the same watts/kg, which means their weight has been ignored, which is one of the things we're most interested in for e.g. Quintana vs Dumoulin
* short climbs e.g. stage 16 have higher watts as you'd expect, and multi mountain stages have lower watts for the final climb, which is all good when looking at individual climbs, but it means that the difficulty of the course is a big influence on what the 5 climb average is.

Remember that Ferrari's formula don't take into account the drag or wind conditions. The watts/kg for these different climbs can mislead people in which the length of the climbs vary with each other. That's why you have the highest numbers for Stage 16.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Re:

https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily has some Vuelta numbers:

These are obviously interesting, but with the two caveats that:
* in stage 7 you have seven riders who finished together all getting the same watts/kg, which means their weight has been ignored, which is one of the things we're most interested in for e.g. Quintana vs Dumoulin
* short climbs e.g. stage 16 have higher watts as you'd expect, and multi mountain stages have lower watts for the final climb, which is all good when looking at individual climbs, but it means that the difficulty of the course is a big influence on what the 5 climb average is.

Remember that Ferrari's formula don't take into account the drag or wind conditions. The watts/kg for these different climbs can mislead people in which the length of the climbs vary with each other. That's why you have the highest numbers for Stage 16.

It's only a 3-4.5% difference. For me that's not really worth the bother of indicating climb length etc, given power readings from SRMs are 1-2% inaccurate.

 

[Red Rick]

Bump. Wonder if we'll be able to get the times of the Malhao ascent from some sort of footage

 

[Simurgh]

Just read that Pinot did Malhão in 7'01, 10 seconds faster than the ascent of Kwiatkowski last year, which means that Contador did climb it in 6'41 (since he was 20 seconds faster than Pinot). Don't have the source yet, I just read this a moment ago in the other forum!!

Update: Still can't find where I read it, but Thibaut Pinots Strava does confirm that he did it in 7'01. https://www.strava.com/segments/5151361

 

[Red Rick]

Don't know how good the calculator is, but estimating Contador at 62kg gives 7.15 W/kg