Power Outputs Contador & Wiggins

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Aug 18, 2009
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I'm not adding anything to it, it was just to save people searching for what was said during the 09 Tour.
 
Jul 3, 2012
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BigBoat said:
If he only weighs 71 kg then he's even 'more' "JACKED" through the roof. LOL, 6 watts per kilo at FTP just does not happen cleanly. But then again, when JACKED on HGH, cortisol, cow blood it certainly does happen all the time.

There are lots of amateurs that are doped and would be good pros if they raced pro. Thats true. BTW, if you have a problem with my comments you can just put me on ignore. LOL

:)
You have no idea what is possible without doping. The riders at TdF are the very best in the world, in their very best form. Among these riders, a few excel. Fantastic talent, training to perfection and an extreme ability to suffer separate these riders from others. Yes, a lot of riders have doped over the years, and there are probably doped riders in this year's TdF as well. But a 6 W/kg FTP is nothing magic.

I know for a fact of clean pros who have done 6.2 W/kg for more than 45 minutes during racing. They didn't maintain the power for an hour because the climb wasn't long enough.

I also know for a fact of clean 20-year-olds who have done 6.1 W/kg for half an hour during training. These riders were reasonably good climbers at 2.2-races. They were former mountain bikers. Their problem was a lack of endurance and experience due to their young age. They often couldn't cope with the long racing distances and position fighting to have enough power left for the final climbs. Such skills take years to achieve. Body composition is also an issue. Cyclist often gradually lose weight during their career, losing upper body muscle and a little body fat.

I'm not saying whether Wiggins is racing cleanly or not. But for sure 6.0 W/kg is possible without doping for many of the best riders.
 
May 26, 2010
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Waikiki said:
You have no idea what is possible without doping. The riders at TdF are the very best in the world, in their very best form. Among these riders, a few excel. Fantastic talent, training to perfection and an extreme ability to suffer separate these riders from others. Yes, a lot of riders have doped over the years, and there are probably doped riders in this year's TdF as well. But a 6 W/kg FTP is nothing magic.

I know for a fact of clean pros who have done 6.2 W/kg for more than 45 minutes during racing. They didn't maintain the power for an hour because the climb wasn't long enough.

I also know for a fact of clean 20-year-olds who have done 6.1 W/kg for half an hour during training. These riders were reasonably good climbers at 2.2-races. They were former mountain bikers. Their problem was a lack of endurance and experience due to their young age. They often couldn't cope with the long racing distances and position fighting to have enough power left for the final climbs. Such skills take years to achieve. Body composition is also an issue. Cyclist often gradually lose weight during their career, losing upper body muscle and a little body fat.

I'm not saying whether Wiggins is racing cleanly or not. But for sure 6.0 W/kg is possible without doping for many of the best riders.
Wiggins only showing it at a late age increases the doubt.
 
Jul 25, 2011
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Benotti69 said:
Wiggins only showing it at a late age increases the doubt.
While I agree and this also raises doubts to me, in all fairness to Wiggins, he did show early results on the track. I don't know much about track performances (more anaerobic? similarities to road etc.) but given his results (Words, Olympics, ..) this somewhat makes it a bit more credible to me.

If anything I find Froomes performances more questionable given his history! (like none of importance before last year vuelta? and that at 27 .. )

Also I think we haven't seen any numbers above 6.4 w/kg ftp or something
 
Jul 3, 2012
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iZnoGouD said:
How long had that 20 years old rider been riding? just for curiosity
One of them had been racing and training well for four years. I don't know about the other guy.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Waikiki said:
You have no idea what is possible without doping. The riders at TdF are the very best in the world, in their very best form. Among these riders, a few excel. Fantastic talent, training to perfection and an extreme ability to suffer separate these riders from others. Yes, a lot of riders have doped over the years, and there are probably doped riders in this year's TdF as well. But a 6 W/kg FTP is nothing magic.

I know for a fact of clean pros who have done 6.2 W/kg for more than 45 minutes during racing. They didn't maintain the power for an hour because the climb wasn't long enough.

I also know for a fact of clean 20-year-olds who have done 6.1 W/kg for half an hour during training. These riders were reasonably good climbers at 2.2-races. They were former mountain bikers. Their problem was a lack of endurance and experience due to their young age. They often couldn't cope with the long racing distances and position fighting to have enough power left for the final climbs. Such skills take years to achieve. Body composition is also an issue. Cyclist often gradually lose weight during their career, losing upper body muscle and a little body fat.

I'm not saying whether Wiggins is racing cleanly or not. But for sure 6.0 W/kg is possible without doping for many of the best riders.
Experience and repeatability is needed for longer races, but an FTP of 6.0 is not common at all........Brajkovic's is around 5.8 right now. Riders can lie about their power output though and I'm sure it happens a lot. Now you can have the slope wrong on a power meter or the rider can mess with the slope to make the power file read higher than it is. We've not seen many 20 year olds who could even possibly have 6.0 w/kg in the last 20 years.............. Maybe Ullrich had close to 6.0 after he started using epo in the mid 1990s at age 20. He might not have back then even! Now at age 23 he certainly had over 6 watts per kilo after a little advice from Mr. 60%. :)

Take for example Peter Keen's estimate of Eddy Merckx sea level power at threshold, 429 watts. 5.87 watts per kilo. Thats from a man who took amphetamines but did not take epo. And it was done after he'd specifically trained for the hour event. So it was a true all out effort by the top man. And the best he could achieve was around 430 or so at sea level (360 watts est. average at Mexico City with little Acclimatization).

He had the natural talent perhaps 1 in a thousand pros!
 
Jun 18, 2009
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Waikiki said:
I know for a fact of clean pros who have done 6.2 W/kg for more than 45 minutes during racing. They didn't maintain the power for an hour because the climb wasn't long enough.

Either they have grand tour winning potential, or their power meters need calibrated. Froome crushed the field with a TT of 5.8 w/kg in last year's Vuelta. Schleck and Contador are doing 6.0 w/kg up the long climbs in the TDF.
 
Jul 15, 2010
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131313 said:
Either they have grand tour winning potential, or their power meters need calibrated. Froome crushed the field with a TT of 5.8 w/kg in last year's Vuelta. Schleck and Contador are doing 6.0 w/kg up the long climbs in the TDF.
None other than Dr.Ferrari said that a rider had to ride above 6.0 to a Tour de France champion. Him saying that speaks volumes. I call BS on anyone knowing a 20 year old who can do that at the end of a long stage clean.
 

iZnoGouD

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Feb 18, 2011
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131313 said:
Either they have grand tour winning potential, or their power meters need calibrated. Froome crushed the field with a TT of 5.8 w/kg in last year's Vuelta. Schleck and Contador are doing 6.0 w/kg up the long climbs in the TDF.
Isn't Andy Schleck FTP in top form at 6.4 w/kg, Contador isn't too far from that
 
Jul 10, 2009
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Zweistein said:
None other than Dr.Ferrari said that a rider had to ride above 6.0 to a Tour de France champion. Him saying that speaks volumes. I call BS on anyone knowing a 20 year old who can do that at the end of a long stage clean.
Not saying that the number is somehow incorrect but just as a principle, in light of what he's "accomplished" do you think Dr.Ferrari as a reliable source without any agenda?
 
Jul 15, 2010
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wannab said:
While I agree and this also raises doubts to me, in all fairness to Wiggins, he did show early results on the track. I don't know much about track performances (more anaerobic? similarities to road etc.) but given his results (Words, Olympics, ..) this somewhat makes it a bit more credible to me.
Wiggins was about as good as Brad McGee on the track if you compare their careers. McGee also tried to become a GC contender loosing a heap of weight, but generally sucked outside of one reasonable giro.

All the talk about Wiggins track potential as a justification for his current performance just generally ****s me. There have been plenty of superior pursuiters who failed on the road let alone became dominant grant tour riders - Dean Woods must be kicking himself that he did'nt get his act together and win a few tours.
 
Jul 15, 2010
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He doesnt.

Unless you are their doctor/coach you dont know how much they weigh at peak condition. They spin **** with their weights now to throw poeple off the scent, but the reality is that nobody has a real handle on either their weight of their power output, there are lots of estimations but unless you are the guy that admisnisters their pre big ride enema and watches them get on the scales you dont know how much they weigh.

Your power estimates on here are based on an estimate of weight against time for a climb. Not too many big names will give you their SRM files and even if they did they will fudge their weight so it does not look too alien.
 
Jul 25, 2011
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fatsprintking said:
He doesnt.
...
Your power estimates on here are based on an estimate of weight against time for a climb. Not too many big names will give you their SRM files and even if they did they will fudge their weight so it does not look too alien.
In another thread I tried to find out Andy's ftp

412w/67kg = 1h7m10s @ 6,15w at the end of the tour, not bad indeeds
Weights/watts, they can all vary of course but around 6.2(+) ftp for schleck/contador wouldn't surprise me.

The numbers Schleck gives in the docu do alienate him a bit, exaggerating? maybe, true talent? We'll never know :rolleyes:
 
Jul 3, 2012
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131313 said:
Either they have grand tour winning potential, or their power meters need calibrated. Froome crushed the field with a TT of 5.8 w/kg in last year's Vuelta. Schleck and Contador are doing 6.0 w/kg up the long climbs in the TDF.
No wonder why they do climbs at 6.0 W/kg or time trial at 5.8 W/kg during a GT. It's really fast after many hard days of racing. And power output in a TT position is lower than when climbing in a more upright position. Remember FTP is a rider's maximum power output for 60 minutes when rested. Do you think you can ride two or three cat. 1 climbs at high speed and then do a final HC climb at FTP after 170 km?

The riders I talk about couldn't keep 6.2 W/kg on climbs for many days in a row. They get tired. Remember a lot of pro riders can perform great in the mountains on one day, and then be too tired to keep up the day after.
 
Jul 3, 2012
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BigBoat said:
No he averaged 5.6 w/kg for the TT. But it was done in the aero position which for most costs some power.
Do you use a body weight of 64 kg in those calculations? He is lighter. When he won CDL, he was less than 60 kg.
 
Mar 4, 2010
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Jani's data says 337 watts, 5.6 w/kg, for the finishing climb. So his stated weight is 60 kg.

He did 5.3 w/kg on the previous HC climb.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Tyler'sTwin said:
Jani's data says 337 watts, 5.6 w/kg, for the finishing climb. So his stated weight is 60 kg.

He did 5.3 w/kg on the previous HC climb.
hmm...not clear what his true weight is. Its in the 60-65 kg range. At 60 he would have done 5.95 w/kg for his TT.... And only 15th place!
 

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