Pre La Vuelta-thread

[yaco]

Re:

So without Chaves, and probably without Adam, its once again all out for one of the Yates brothers. Simon is great, and is one of the favourites, but it clearly hasn't worked out for them so far. Whats their best GC placement this year?

The fact is the last twelve months have been a disaster for MS' GC riders and this issue must be addressed in the off-season - The most frustrating thing is that at times the riders have looked to have been in excellent form - Chaves was good until halfway through the 2017 Vuelta and the 2018 Giro - S.Yates was excellent until the very end of the Giro - Simon produces his Giro form and he should podium and in saying that if Porte produces his best form he should be top 2.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Ewan not in the Mitchelton Scott Vuelta squad. Not a consequence of him going in the break at Ride London, White says he’s known his schedule for weeks. What a disgraceful episode in the history of that team all of this has been, vindictive in the extreme.

It is 100% the correct decision and White should be applauded for his decisive action- I posted that Ewan was given every chance to reset his goals and do a Viviani in 2017 and get wins on the board - What makes it more galling is that once Viviani missed out on the Giro he had no chance to ride a GT in 2017, but put his head down, collected 9 wins and set himself up for a successful 2018, while MS were happy for Ewan to ride the Vuelta if his form and attitude were good in the Surrey Classic and Tour of Poland, but unfortunately Ewan chucked a tantrum last Sunday - The most pissed off person at MS has to be Mezgec whose program continually changes.

White explicitly said that his schedule was decided weeks ago, so no, they weren’t “happy for him to ride the Vuelta” and their vindictiveness has nothing to do with his supposed “tantrum”. I have no idea why you are so determined to find ways to mask the malicious behaviour of this team towards a rider who didn’t sign an extension. “Decisive action”, “should be applauded”, Jesus Christ is Matt White your Dad?

I hope Ewan does as much damage to their image in Australia as possible on his way out.

Its simple - I post info about MS from time to time and which has proven to be mostly accurate - White is being publically kind to Ewan by not criticising him in any way - You seriously believe White when he states Ewan was in the break, got a flat and couldn't make it back to the break who had over 7 minutes on the peleton - Gee, Ewan threw the toys out of the cot and you are doing the same - This is the irony - At the end of the day, Ewan could have ridden the Vuelta if he adopted a more professional attitude.

Yes, I believe White when he says Ewan’s schedule was decided weeks ago. No I do not believe that MS are motivated by “kindness” towards a rider that that they have systematically screwed over since he refused to sign a new contract.

Im not “throwing the toys out of the cot”. I’m not a huge partisan of Ewan’s nor did I have anything against MS as a team. I had no emotional investment in either beyond being vaguely well disposed towards both. I have however come to have contempt for the vindictiveness of the MS management over all of this. They tell a rider to focus his whole season around the Tour. Then they drop him at the last minute after he doesn’t sign a contract extension in favour of yet another domestique to aid their desperate battle for a top 30 on GC. Then they decide to leave him without any GT at all in nearly two years, knowing that will significantly undermine the career development of a young rider. It’s malice and vindictiveness all the way down with that bunch. And of course they think nothing of screwing over Kluge and Mezgec, destroying their seasons as mere collateral damage.

The fact is Mezgec was sadder than Ewan over the TDF debacle - Mezgec was given a choice of riding his own programme to chase wins or to follow Ewan - He chose to follow Ewan which has left him in a shocking position - Mezgec will get a spot in the Vuelta if chooses no longer to follow Ewan - Kluge never fitted into the team well - Kluge will change teams but at the same time is grateful to MS who've allowed him to often ride on the track, and in fact last weekend they allowed him to miss the Surrey Classic and ride in a criterium in Germany - MS biggest mistake was dropping him at the last minute from the 2017 Giro for a second year pro in Edmondson which undoubtedly cost Ewan another stage victory in that Giro - Anyway wait until Dirk Provin enters this thread - My final thought is sometimes a rider's manager can make life unnecessarily difficult.

 

[movingtarget]

Oh well it's history now. Ewan will be glad to get out of a team that has not only had a mediocre season but is a bit curious with it's decisions.They will also have a decison to make about Chaves when his contract is due. Long time since Ewan has been in a grand tour.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Somehow really hoping MS once again fail to place riders in the top-10 due to how they have handled all of this.

 

[yaco]

Re:

Somehow really hoping MS once again fail to place riders in the top-10 due to how they have handled all of this.

What a childish and immature post - Ewan's antics in the Surrey Classic cost him a place in the Vuelta squad - And the final decision wasn't made by Matt White - It's good to see Bouhanni is keeping his head down after being omitted from Cofidis TDF team and will be rewarded with a ride in the Vuelta.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

Somehow really hoping MS once again fail to place riders in the top-10 due to how they have handled all of this.

This. I lost a lot of sympathy for that team over the last months

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

Somehow really hoping MS once again fail to place riders in the top-10 due to how they have handled all of this.

What a childish and immature post - Ewan's antics in the Surrey Classic cost him a place in the Vuelta squad - And the final decision wasn't made by Matt White - It's good to see Bouhanni is keeping his head down after being omitted from Cofidis TDF team and will be rewarded with a ride in the Vuelta.

Please just shut it. You've made your point clear about ten posts ago and keeping to claim to be the only one who knows the truth won't make it any more true.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re: Re:

Ewan not in the Mitchelton Scott Vuelta squad. Not a consequence of him going in the break at Ride London, White says he’s known his schedule for weeks. What a disgraceful episode in the history of that team all of this has been, vindictive in the extreme.

It is 100% the correct decision and White should be applauded for his decisive action- I posted that Ewan was given every chance to reset his goals and do a Viviani in 2017 and get wins on the board - What makes it more galling is that once Viviani missed out on the Giro he had no chance to ride a GT in 2017, but put his head down, collected 9 wins and set himself up for a successful 2018, while MS were happy for Ewan to ride the Vuelta if his form and attitude were good in the Surrey Classic and Tour of Poland, but unfortunately Ewan chucked a tantrum last Sunday - The most pissed off person at MS has to be Mezgec whose program continually changes.

White explicitly said that his schedule was decided weeks ago, so no, they weren’t “happy for him to ride the Vuelta” and their vindictiveness has nothing to do with his supposed “tantrum”. I have no idea why you are so determined to find ways to mask the malicious behaviour of this team towards a rider who didn’t sign an extension. “Decisive action”, “should be applauded”, Jesus Christ is Matt White your Dad?

I hope Ewan does as much damage to their image in Australia as possible on his way out.

You are writing like it is a superstar we are talking about.

The guy has 1 win this year, a stage in tour down under, that's it..... he is clearly off form.

Why would you bring a guy like that to a GT, when he is leaving the team anyway?

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Somehow really hoping MS once again fail to place riders in the top-10 due to how they have handled all of this.

What a childish and immature post - Ewan's antics in the Surrey Classic cost him a place in the Vuelta squad - And the final decision wasn't made by Matt White - It's good to see Bouhanni is keeping his head down after being omitted from Cofidis TDF team and will be rewarded with a ride in the Vuelta.

Please just shut it. You've made your point clear about ten posts ago and keeping to claim to be the only one who knows the truth won't make it any more true.

Yeah, yaco is becoming increasingly more annoying thinking he knows everything about the team and his opinion is the only right one. Guess what, thats not how it works and people look at it differently and many feel the team has handled this case pretty poorly.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Re: Re:

Somehow really hoping MS once again fail to place riders in the top-10 due to how they have handled all of this.

What a childish and immature post - Ewan's antics in the Surrey Classic cost him a place in the Vuelta squad - And the final decision wasn't made by Matt White - It's good to see Bouhanni is keeping his head down after being omitted from Cofidis TDF team and will be rewarded with a ride in the Vuelta.

Please just shut it. You've made your point clear about ten posts ago and keeping to claim to be the only one who knows the truth won't make it any more true.

Yeah, yaco is becoming increasingly more annoying thinking he knows everything about the team and his opinion is the only right one. Guess what, thats not how it works and people look at it differently and many feel the team has handled this case pretty poorly.

Fact is, there's a bunch of factors which determine selection for any race, the majority of which we aren't party to, and remain internal to the team. I've not seen anyone on here show that they have any inside knowledge, either for or against Ewan's inclusion on the Tour or Vuelta. As such, we don't really know whether White's made a good or bad decision.

Two things I do know though. Firstly, he's built up enough credit as DS of MS over the years for me to give him a pass on this one. Secondly, if a rider is leaving a team, that rider's development no longer becomes a factor in choosing a team for any particular race, else White wouldn't be doing the job he's paid for.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Somehow really hoping MS once again fail to place riders in the top-10 due to how they have handled all of this.

What a childish and immature post - Ewan's antics in the Surrey Classic cost him a place in the Vuelta squad - And the final decision wasn't made by Matt White - It's good to see Bouhanni is keeping his head down after being omitted from Cofidis TDF team and will be rewarded with a ride in the Vuelta.

Please just shut it. You've made your point clear about ten posts ago and keeping to claim to be the only one who knows the truth won't make it any more true.

I get it now - The truth is wrong and opinions are right.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Somehow really hoping MS once again fail to place riders in the top-10 due to how they have handled all of this.

What a childish and immature post - Ewan's antics in the Surrey Classic cost him a place in the Vuelta squad - And the final decision wasn't made by Matt White - It's good to see Bouhanni is keeping his head down after being omitted from Cofidis TDF team and will be rewarded with a ride in the Vuelta.

Please just shut it. You've made your point clear about ten posts ago and keeping to claim to be the only one who knows the truth won't make it any more true.

Yeah, yaco is becoming increasingly more annoying thinking he knows everything about the team and his opinion is the only right one. Guess what, thats not how it works and people look at it differently and many feel the team has handled this case pretty poorly.

Fact is, there's a bunch of factors which determine selection for any race, the majority of which we aren't party to, and remain internal to the team. I've not seen anyone on here show that they have any inside knowledge, either for or against Ewan's inclusion on the Tour or Vuelta. As such, we don't really know whether White's made a good or bad decision.

Two things I do know though. Firstly, he's built up enough credit as DS of MS over the years for me to give him a pass on this one. Secondly, if a rider is leaving a team, that rider's development no longer becomes a factor in choosing a team for any particular race, else White wouldn't be doing the job he's paid for.

yaco acts like he has inside knowledge in this case, saying it was due to his behaviour in London contrary to official statements...

 

[tobydawq]

But honestly, would you expect an official statement containing the words "his non-selection is due to him acting like a baby in London"?

They can't really write that even if it's the truth.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

Somehow really hoping MS once again fail to place riders in the top-10 due to how they have handled all of this.

What a childish and immature post - Ewan's antics in the Surrey Classic cost him a place in the Vuelta squad - And the final decision wasn't made by Matt White - It's good to see Bouhanni is keeping his head down after being omitted from Cofidis TDF team and will be rewarded with a ride in the Vuelta.

Please just shut it. You've made your point clear about ten posts ago and keeping to claim to be the only one who knows the truth won't make it any more true.

I get it now - The truth is wrong and opinions are right.

I don't claim to know the truth, but you do despite having no more knowledge about this topic than us. Personally I believe MS that they already made the decision before the London race, but I might be wrong. You believe the opposite but you behave as if there is no chance you are wrong.
That said, my post was written a bit harshly I think, I wasn't in good mood this morning, so sorry about that. But my general opinion on the topic hasn't changed.

 

[movingtarget]

Obviously for Michelton if they can't podium grand tours there is no point trying for sprint stages either. They would have lost nothing including Ewan in the line up even if he didn't try too hard in the British race. It's not going to cost them a podium at the Vuelta. But not being included in any grand tour for the season seems odd to me especially when it's been a mediocre season apart from the TDU and the Giro stage wins. He will probably soft pedal the rest of the season now but I would rather see him win a few races.

 

[ice&fire]

Stage 2 won't finish at the same place than in 2015. The finish will be at the upcoming Visitor Reception Centre of Caminito del Rey.
https://www.lavuelta.es/en/news/2018/the-upcoming-visitor-reception-center-of-caminito-del-rey-will-held-the-finish-line-for-the-second-stage-of-la-vuelta-18/12856

The Vuelta web site still keeps the old profile but the map shows that the climb to the Alto de la Mesa won't be part of the stage.
https://www.lavuelta.es/en/stage-2

From the look of the map, they'll climb less than 200m in the last 4.5 km with the last km at ~5%.

 

[Escarabajo]

Ok. Thanks. So stage 2 means nothing now. 8 MTT including Muritos. That's a low for Vuelta standards.

 

[Tonton]

Wide open Vuelta, bad course, but as one of you mentioned, great courses don't always mean great racing.

On the paper, Porte could dominate it, but like many here I'm expecting something weird to happen and a DNF. The curse. Not that I believe in curses, but I believe in mental scars: Porte may think to much, get the "here we go again" thoughts, be cautious and make a mistake, so in that sense, he's cursed IMO.

I'd like Simon and Tibo to podium after their heartbreak at Il Giro. And Vincenzo to be there. That would be my perfect podium.

I'm starting to think that Quintana is done, Valverde is not unbeatable anymore, and if I were him, I would put all my marbles on that elusive rainbow. See what happens GC-wise half-way through La Vuelta, and if winning is unlikely, take it easy. For Valverde, this RRWC, its course, that's a once a career opportunity.

I'd like to see Soler, Mas, SK do well. Sprinters? I don't care.

This should be an entertaining Vuelta. It's wide open.

 

[Red Rick]

I just want Nibali to win the stage to Andorra solo over at least the last 3 climbs, so everyone is pooping their pants ahead of the Worlds.

 

[Koronin]

Wide open Vuelta, bad course, but as one of you mentioned, great courses don't always mean great racing.

On the paper, Porte could dominate it, but like many here I'm expecting something weird to happen and a DNF. The curse. Not that I believe in curses, but I believe in mental scars: Porte may think to much, get the "here we go again" thoughts, be cautious and make a mistake, so in that sense, he's cursed IMO.

I'd like Simon and Tibo to podium after their heartbreak at Il Giro. And Vincenzo to be there. That would be my perfect podium.

I'm starting to think that Quintana is done, Valverde is not unbeatable anymore, and if I were him, I would put all my marbles on that elusive rainbow. See what happens GC-wise half-way through La Vuelta, and if winning is unlikely, take it easy. For Valverde, this RRWC, its course, that's a once a career opportunity.

I'd like to see Soler, Mas, SK do well. Sprinters? I don't care.

This should be an entertaining Vuelta. It's wide open.

The way Valverde has been talking since June, it sounds like that's more or less what he's planning on doing. The fact he showed up for the Tour only in race shape should lead to this as well.

This Vuelta is more sprinter friendly that some other recent additions.

 

[movingtarget]

Wide open Vuelta, bad course, but as one of you mentioned, great courses don't always mean great racing.

On the paper, Porte could dominate it, but like many here I'm expecting something weird to happen and a DNF. The curse. Not that I believe in curses, but I believe in mental scars: Porte may think to much, get the "here we go again" thoughts, be cautious and make a mistake, so in that sense, he's cursed IMO.

I'd like Simon and Tibo to podium after their heartbreak at Il Giro. And Vincenzo to be there. That would be my perfect podium.

I'm starting to think that Quintana is done, Valverde is not unbeatable anymore, and if I were him, I would put all my marbles on that elusive rainbow. See what happens GC-wise half-way through La Vuelta, and if winning is unlikely, take it easy. For Valverde, this RRWC, its course, that's a once a career opportunity.

I'd like to see Soler, Mas, SK do well. Sprinters? I don't care.

This should be an entertaining Vuelta. It's wide open.

The way Valverde has been talking since June, it sounds like that's more or less what he's planning on doing. The fact he showed up for the Tour only in race shape should lead to this as well.

This Vuelta is more sprinter friendly that some other recent additions.

i think the Worlds is a tough course even for someone like Valverde but I still think he has a better chance there than at the Vuelta. I am starting to think that the Vuelta will have a first time grand tour winner as there are doubts about Aru, Quintana and Nibali if he starts. Yes it's very open. It could be a fun race if Yates, Pinot, Porte and others find some form. If Valverde is in a good position on GC in the final week of the Vuelta he will aim for the podium I am sure. He is too much of a competitor not to. An interesting field of off form GT winners and riders looking for a breakthrough win. Expect to see some chaos.......

 

[Tonton]

...agree. There will be opportunities, guys need to take advantage of them.

 

[Koronin]

Wide open Vuelta, bad course, but as one of you mentioned, great courses don't always mean great racing.

On the paper, Porte could dominate it, but like many here I'm expecting something weird to happen and a DNF. The curse. Not that I believe in curses, but I believe in mental scars: Porte may think to much, get the "here we go again" thoughts, be cautious and make a mistake, so in that sense, he's cursed IMO.

I'd like Simon and Tibo to podium after their heartbreak at Il Giro. And Vincenzo to be there. That would be my perfect podium.

I'm starting to think that Quintana is done, Valverde is not unbeatable anymore, and if I were him, I would put all my marbles on that elusive rainbow. See what happens GC-wise half-way through La Vuelta, and if winning is unlikely, take it easy. For Valverde, this RRWC, its course, that's a once a career opportunity.

I'd like to see Soler, Mas, SK do well. Sprinters? I don't care.

This should be an entertaining Vuelta. It's wide open.

The way Valverde has been talking since June, it sounds like that's more or less what he's planning on doing. The fact he showed up for the Tour only in race shape should lead to this as well.

This Vuelta is more sprinter friendly that some other recent additions.

i think the Worlds is a tough course even for someone like Valverde but I still think he has a better chance there than at the Vuelta. I am starting to think that the Vuelta will have a first time grand tour winner as there are doubts about Aru, Quintana and Nibali if he starts. Yes it's very open. It could be a fun race if Yates, Pinot, Porte and others find some form. If Valverde is in a good position on GC in the final week of the Vuelta he will aim for the podium I am sure. He is too much of a competitor not to. An interesting field of off form GT winners and riders looking for a breaththrough win. Expect to see some chaos.......

I'm sure he would as well, esp since he's chasing history at la Vuelta. he needs one more podium to tie the record for most ever Vuelta podiums and it is a record he's said he wants. It appears that the Worlds is really his main focus since the start of the season when he showed he was back.

 

[Scarponi]

Someone is going to do a Horner to Nibali

 

[movingtarget]

Someone is going to do a Horner to Nibali

Well he was Ported in the Tour...........hate to think he would be Ported, and Hornered in consecutive races........