Pre Tour de France-thread

[Broccolidwarf]

Re:

He asked why there is not a single mountain stage on a weekend this year. It doesn't matter how 'explosive' Alps will be if one has to work.

Well, cycling is more than big climbs:

2nd sunday is Roubaix
Weekend after is the airport in Mende and then Pic de Nore (both GC battles in the mountains)
Weekend after is TT and Paris

 

[rghysens]

Re: Re:

Who decided to put the Alps & Pyrenees in the middle of the week?

I think it's great

It's a brutal start to the alps

First stage 9, which is like 85 % Paris-Roubaix, and the 9th race day in a row (only 2 of them being "easy" for GC riders) - leaving everyone depleted

Then a long transport from the north of France to the alps.

Then a rest day (and we all know, a lot of riders struggle the first day after a rest day)

Then the mountains start (and we all know, some riders suffer the first day on big climbs), with 3 huge stages in the alps in a row.

Add to that, that many captains know, it is the first 9 days (obviously excluding the TTT) they can hurt Sky, Movistar and BMC, which means the pressure will be on most days, leading up the the explosive stages in the alps.

Paris Roubaix is over 250km long with over 50km cobbles. Stage 9 is 155km long and has a bit more than 20km of cobbles, none of which is a 5* sector (they do 800m of the 3000m long Mons-en-Pévèle sector, however). 50% Paris-Roubaix is closer to the truth. And I count 5 "easy" days in the first 8 stages instead of 2 (unless there are crosswinds).

 

[roundabout]

Re: Re:

He asked why there is not a single mountain stage on a weekend this year. It doesn't matter how 'explosive' Alps will be if one has to work.

Well, cycling is more than big climbs:

2nd sunday is Roubaix
Weekend after is the airport in Mende and then Pic de Nore (both GC battles in the mountains)
Weekend after is TT and Paris

And? What if someone prefers actual mountain stages?

Again, the original question was why all high mountain stages are on weekdays.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re: Re:

Who decided to put the Alps & Pyrenees in the middle of the week?

I think it's great

It's a brutal start to the alps

First stage 9, which is like 85 % Paris-Roubaix, and the 9th race day in a row (only 2 of them being "easy" for GC riders) - leaving everyone depleted

Then a long transport from the north of France to the alps.

Then a rest day (and we all know, a lot of riders struggle the first day after a rest day)

Then the mountains start (and we all know, some riders suffer the first day on big climbs), with 3 huge stages in the alps in a row.

Add to that, that many captains know, it is the first 9 days (obviously excluding the TTT) they can hurt Sky, Movistar and BMC, which means the pressure will be on most days, leading up the the explosive stages in the alps.

Paris Roubaix is over 250km long with over 50km cobbles. Stage 9 is 155km long and has a bit more than 20km of cobbles, none of which is a 5* sector (they do 800m of the 3000m long Mons-en-Pévèle sector, however). 50% Paris-Roubaix is closer to the truth. And I count 5 "easy" days in the first 8 stages instead of 2 (unless there are crosswinds).

You are right on the math

I just think it will be ridden harder, because the agendas are different.

It is more important to gain time, than winning the stage, for all of the GC teams, so I suspect it will be ridden like a big mountain stage, hard from the start, every pavee entry will be hard fought, and pressure will be put on, on every pavee, by the teams whos captains are good on cobbles.

Oh - and nobody shows up for Paris-Roubaix, with 8 consecutive race days in their legs, all with maximum mental pressure.

I saw an interview with Quintana from Marca today - he cited stage 9 as his biggest worry for the entire race (and incidentally said his only experience with cobbles, his entire career, was one day scouting the stage this spring).

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re: Re:

He asked why there is not a single mountain stage on a weekend this year. It doesn't matter how 'explosive' Alps will be if one has to work.

Well, cycling is more than big climbs:

2nd sunday is Roubaix
Weekend after is the airport in Mende and then Pic de Nore (both GC battles in the mountains)
Weekend after is TT and Paris

And? What if someone prefers actual mountain stages?

Again, the original question was why all high mountain stages are on weekdays.

Might as well ask why not?

Why aren't all sprints on Sundays? - I prefer sprints....

 

[saunaking]

Re: Re:

Who decided to put the Alps & Pyrenees in the middle of the week?

I think it's great

It's a brutal start to the alps

First stage 9, which is like 85 % Paris-Roubaix, and the 9th race day in a row (only 2 of them being "easy" for GC riders) - leaving everyone depleted

Then a long transport from the north of France to the alps.

Then a rest day (and we all know, a lot of riders struggle the first day after a rest day)

Then the mountains start (and we all know, some riders suffer the first day on big climbs), with 3 huge stages in the alps in a row.

Add to that, that many captains know, it is the first 9 days (obviously excluding the TTT) they can hurt Sky, Movistar and BMC, which means the pressure will be on most days, leading up the the explosive stages in the alps.

Paris Roubaix is over 250km long with over 50km cobbles. Stage 9 is 155km long and has a bit more than 20km of cobbles, none of which is a 5* sector (they do 800m of the 3000m long Mons-en-Pévèle sector, however). 50% Paris-Roubaix is closer to the truth. And I count 5 "easy" days in the first 8 stages instead of 2 (unless there are crosswinds).

Well, 1st weekend boring stages, fine not much you can do about that
2nd weekend, cobbles stage should be great, other one not so much
3rd weekend, meh. Mende is easy stage with a nice finish though 3k@10%, Carcasonne stage looks dull, big climb but not super hard and with 40k still to go
4th weekend, TTzzzzzzzz and procession.

so 1 of 8 stages i really want to watch live

 

[wansteadimp]

Re: Re:

He asked why there is not a single mountain stage on a weekend this year. It doesn't matter how 'explosive' Alps will be if one has to work.

Well, cycling is more than big climbs:

2nd sunday is Roubaix
Weekend after is the airport in Mende and then Pic de Nore (both GC battles in the mountains)
Weekend after is TT and Paris

And? What if someone prefers actual mountain stages?

Again, the original question was why all high mountain stages are on weekdays.

Prudhomme knows there's less chance of Gigs_98 watching at the weekend = better racing!

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

Who decided to put the Alps & Pyrenees in the middle of the week?

I think it's great

It's a brutal start to the alps

First stage 9, which is like 85 % Paris-Roubaix, and the 9th race day in a row (only 2 of them being "easy" for GC riders) - leaving everyone depleted

Then a long transport from the north of France to the alps.

Then a rest day (and we all know, a lot of riders struggle the first day after a rest day)

Then the mountains start (and we all know, some riders suffer the first day on big climbs), with 3 huge stages in the alps in a row.

Add to that, that many captains know, it is the first 9 days (obviously excluding the TTT) they can hurt Sky, Movistar and BMC, which means the pressure will be on most days, leading up the the explosive stages in the alps.

Paris Roubaix is over 250km long with over 50km cobbles. Stage 9 is 155km long and has a bit more than 20km of cobbles, none of which is a 5* sector (they do 800m of the 3000m long Mons-en-Pévèle sector, however). 50% Paris-Roubaix is closer to the truth. And I count 5 "easy" days in the first 8 stages instead of 2 (unless there are crosswinds).

You are right on the math

I just think it will be ridden harder, because the agendas are different.

It is more important to gain time, than winning the stage, for all of the GC teams, so I suspect it will be ridden like a big mountain stage, hard from the start, every pavee entry will be hard fought, and pressure will be put on, on every pavee, by the teams whos captains are good on cobbles.

Oh - and nobody shows up for Paris-Roubaix, with 8 consecutive race days in their legs, all with maximum mental pressure.

I saw an interview with Quintana from Marca today - he cited stage 9 as his biggest worry for the entire race (and incidentally said his only experience with cobbles, his entire career, was one day scouting the stage this spring).

He went through this in 2015 and 2016 at the Tour, didn't he?

 

[Robert5091]

He went through this in 2015 and 2016 at the Tour, didn't he?

Smarty pants! (now you've gone and ruined Nairo Q's bluff about riding on cobbles.)

 

[cellardoor]

Re:

He went through this in 2015 and 2016 at the Tour, didn't he?

Smarty pants! (now you've gone and ruined Nairo Q's bluff about riding on cobbles.)

Didn't he also ride one of the cobbled classics this year?

 

[ice&fire]

Re: Re:

He went through this in 2015 and 2016 at the Tour, didn't he?

Smarty pants! (now you've gone and ruined Nairo Q's bluff about riding on cobbles.)

Didn't he also ride one of the cobbled classics this year?

Dwars. He also rode Dwars and E3 in 2015. But everyone around here insists that Flandrian cobbles can't be compared to French cobbles, so they don't count

 

[tobydawq]

He has also ridden on the Champs Élysées plenty of times.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: Re:

Who decided to put the Alps & Pyrenees in the middle of the week?

I think it's great

It's a brutal start to the alps

First stage 9, which is like 85 % Paris-Roubaix, and the 9th race day in a row (only 2 of them being "easy" for GC riders) - leaving everyone depleted

Then a long transport from the north of France to the alps.

Then a rest day (and we all know, a lot of riders struggle the first day after a rest day)

Then the mountains start (and we all know, some riders suffer the first day on big climbs), with 3 huge stages in the alps in a row.

Add to that, that many captains know, it is the first 9 days (obviously excluding the TTT) they can hurt Sky, Movistar and BMC, which means the pressure will be on most days, leading up the the explosive stages in the alps.

Paris Roubaix is over 250km long with over 50km cobbles. Stage 9 is 155km long and has a bit more than 20km of cobbles, none of which is a 5* sector (they do 800m of the 3000m long Mons-en-Pévèle sector, however). 50% Paris-Roubaix is closer to the truth. And I count 5 "easy" days in the first 8 stages instead of 2 (unless there are crosswinds).

You are right on the math

I just think it will be ridden harder, because the agendas are different.

It is more important to gain time, than winning the stage, for all of the GC teams, so I suspect it will be ridden like a big mountain stage, hard from the start, every pavee entry will be hard fought, and pressure will be put on, on every pavee, by the teams whos captains are good on cobbles.

Oh - and nobody shows up for Paris-Roubaix, with 8 consecutive race days in their legs, all with maximum mental pressure.

I saw an interview with Quintana from Marca today - he cited stage 9 as his biggest worry for the entire race (and incidentally said his only experience with cobbles, his entire career, was one day scouting the stage this spring).

I start to think you are right. This stage can be brutal. Cobbles specialist who want to win driven by teams who want to gain time. No tactics. Row power + cobbles skills.

Last but not lease. No mercies. No waiting.

We just need one more thing. Weather like in 2014.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I wonder if any other teams are going the Mitchelton-way of selecting a bunch of time trial riders and not much else. Thats one of the positive aspects of a TTT, some teams might pick rouleurs over climbers.

 

[Laplaz]

Re:

I wonder if any other teams are going the Mitchelton-way of selecting a bunch of time trial riders and not much else. Thats one of the positive aspects of a TTT, some teams might pick rouleurs over climbers.

Wouldn't be bad. Less control in the mountains.

 

[Jspear]

Re:

I wonder if any other teams are going the Mitchelton-way of selecting a bunch of time trial riders and not much else. Thats one of the positive aspects of a TTT, some teams might pick rouleurs over climbers.

Well Adam better not let them down. They better win the TTT, gain yellow and not let go of it and in the final days only crack a little and still finish on the podium. I’d expect nothing less with them dropping Ewan.

 

[Anderis]

I'm not sure if choosing TT-ers instead of climbers was just a choice from Mitchelton. To me it looks like they just don't have the climbing depth to send much more to TdF after what they sent to the Giro anyway.

I'm also not sure if leaving Ewan home is a right move then. Surely, the team will look a bit stronger on paper for TTT but that's pretty much the only benefit. Bring Ewan with one lead-out men instead of Bauer/Hamyan/Hepburn/whoever and Yates still have enough men to protect him on flat stages, perhaps more than plenty of other GC teams will send. Would that be such a big blow to their TTT capabilities? Sprint trains can sometimes be strong on these, especially when mixed by a couple of specialists which Mitchelton would have.
They didn't bring more climbers in place of Ewan and his train so they stage hunting options will be very limited if something goes wrong with Yates.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

I wonder if any other teams are going the Mitchelton-way of selecting a bunch of time trial riders and not much else. Thats one of the positive aspects of a TTT, some teams might pick rouleurs over climbers.

it kinda makes sense for them with nine days before the first rest day and no hard mountains until the second half of the race. Be interesting to see how many GC riders are already out of contention after that rest day. Also Michelton don't have much serious climbing talent to add so it's natural they will look to strengthen the TTT for some gain. It seems the podium is the real target and nothing else.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

You would have to think that Adam Yates must be showing very good form

 

[yaco]

Re:

I'm not sure if choosing TT-ers instead of climbers was just a choice from Mitchelton. To me it looks like they just don't have the climbing depth to send much more to TdF after what they sent to the Giro anyway.

I'm also not sure if leaving Ewan home is a right move then. Surely, the team will look a bit stronger on paper for TTT but that's pretty much the only benefit. Bring Ewan with one lead-out men instead of Bauer/Hamyan/Hepburn/whoever and Yates still have enough men to protect him on flat stages, perhaps more than plenty of other GC teams will send. Would that be such a big blow to their TTT capabilities? Sprint trains can sometimes be strong on these, especially when mixed by a couple of specialists which Mitchelton would have.
They didn't bring more climbers in place of Ewan and his train so they stage hunting options will be very limited if something goes wrong with Yates.

The Ewan sprint team by default provides a strong TTT to give Yates a headstart in GC - And Bauer and Impey were already in the team Ewan or not - In effect it's out Ewan,Mezgec and Kluge and in Nieve, Durbridge and either Hayman/Hepburn - It makes the TTT a bit stronger but not significantly so.

 

[yaco]

Re:

You would have to think that Adam Yates must be showing very good form

A.Yates has been in good form all year - I expect a top 5 and possibly a podium.

 

[Breh]

It would be nice the edit the OP with the confirmed teams.

LottoNL, LottoBE, AG2R and MS have confirmed their teams I think.

 

[Escarabajo]

With 8 riders team it makes it difficult for coaches to split teams with two different objectives. Additionally Ewan made the decision easier with the decision of changing teams at the end of the year.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

With 8 riders team it makes it difficult for coaches to split teams with two different objectives. Additionally Ewan made the decision easier with the decision of changing teams at the end of the year.

If Ewan had signed a new deal it would never have occurred to MS that there was a decision to make. They’d automatically be bringing him.

Yates had better deliver now, and he will have less opportunity to stay under the radar.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Hopefully they haven't brought a team fully devoted to Yates for him to ride an anonymous Adam Yates-esque race. As ZL states, he really can't fly under the radar. Just imagine him crashing out the first 9 days.... that team is just completely useless then.