Prime Lance vs. Contador ... Who Wins

[rhubroma]

I don't care if we are talking Lance + Doping vs Clean contador or Contador with less doping in today's age, versus nearly unmitigated doping of past. Don't care.

Who rode faster. contador now. Lance in 2001.

What are the climbing times of this years Giro? Got a link?

Pantani.

 

[rhubroma]

It's impossible to compare the two because Lance in his prime was on such a huge amount of drugs--so much more than riders can take today, what with the bio-passport and all. Today riders have to micro-dose and work around the testers. In Lance's prime, you could take all the drugs you wanted, whenever you wanted. Ah, those were the days... If you put Contador on the program Lance was on in his prime, it would be like watching a bicycle duct-taped to the space shuttle go up the alps. You have to factor all that in when figuring out which one is the most talented.

True, so true. Although Mr. 60% had everybody beat.

No question, AC is the greater pure talent. Just look at his consistency throughout the year. We may have never seen the long solo break, though he has never focused on one event during his career. He can win from March to October. LA could never do that. Therein lies the differnce between artistry and science.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

No one knows. Contador is only half-way through his career. He may win several more GT's going faster than we've seen him go yet.

A big part of the problem is because doping has been so prevalent and blood boosters so effective in the last two decades, it's impossible to gauge. Those times on the Alpe from the link are just outrageous. The fact that Marco and Lance put up five times that were each over ten minutes faster than LeMond and Hinault on that one climb is just absurd.

I'm thinking this thread should maybe be in the Clinic.

 

[Francois the Postman]

Which race?

As the way I see it, chances are that Contador shows up (to win) and Lance doesn't, especially prime Lance. Unless we are talking just the TdF again.

You also do realize (as others have pointed out) that we probably still have to wait a bit to see how good this Contador fella is when he reaches his prime. We're only in 1998 on the Lance scale. 1998 is when Lance "Cancer Survivor" Armstrong ** appeared to magically become a GT contender, taking 4th at the Vuelta and started to plan the route to his first of seven TdF. 1998 Contador has already got 4 GTs under his belt, including 2 Tdf (he wasn't allowed a shot at #3).

I'm speculative going with Contador, whatever criterium you want to apply...call me a gambler.

Be afraid, be very afraid...

** everytime I type "Armstrong" my auto-spell-checker inserts the longer and correct alternative for it

 

[auscyclefan94]

Polish compiled this bit of useful info and AC's most recent time was estimated on that same thread at 41:38:http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=8032

Some said it was 43 to 44 because of the wind. AC in a tour prep event with Brajkovic and others with him would not of done 41 and a half minutes with a head wind.

 

[hfer07]

I'd say-History will tell- but so far-Contador will have a more colorful palmares-and he seemed to realized that he'd rather pursue more challenges than the tour alone, so he won't be labeled as LA's tour contender, but a rider whom chose a different path....

 

[ErmOkk]

We'll have to wait until AC is around 30. LA of 2001 and 2004 would have beaten the current contador I think. In 2001 LA was flying up mountains, and in 2004 he trully embarrased the rest in ITT's. The other years probably AC...

 

[lancewillwin8]

Wow, so many peoples hatred for Lance has caused them to become completely irrational. There is no comparison. Lance 2001 will never ever be beaten. It follows that Armstrong is the the greatest of all time.

 

[Francois the Postman]

Wow, so many peoples hatred for Lance has caused them to become completely irrational. There is no comparison. Lance 2001 will never ever be beaten. It follows that Armstrong is the the greatest of all time.

Wow, you managed to accuse those that have a differing point of view of hatred and irrationality in one post! Congratulations, you just qualified for a certificate that proves your outstanding internet debating skills. Feel free to feel superior and a bit less insecure, you deserved it.

 

[craig1985]

Wow, you managed to accuse those that have a differing point of view of hatred and irrationality in one post! Congratulations, you just qualified for a certificate that proves your outstanding internet debating skills. Feel free to feel superior and a bit less insecure, you deserved it.

Mate, for your sanity, and I think you are a quality poster, just skim read their posts.

 

[reyan12]

Wow, so many peoples hatred for Lance has caused them to become completely irrational. There is no comparison. Lance 2001 will never ever be beaten. It follows that Armstrong is the the greatest of all time.

LOL! you managed to create a new account again

 

[lancewillwin8]

Wow, you managed to accuse those that have a differing point of view of hatred and irrationality in one post! Congratulations, you just qualified for a certificate that proves your outstanding internet debating skills. Feel free to feel superior and a bit less insecure, you deserved it.

hahah you must not have much of a life to be worried about debating skills on a cycling forum on the net.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Meh, Lance in his prima was nowhere near Riis and Ullrich in 1996/1997

Where Lance rode his climbs in the Tour at averages between 440 and 450W. Jan Ullrich and Bjarne Riis where smashing all human possible limits with performances up to 510W, completely insane and normally unsustainable if you aren't doped up enormously.
Just check cyclismag and old watts measurements.

To compare, Contador rides at the same level as Lance Armstrong in his peak, although slightly lower so far (around 435w)

 

[theyoungest]

hahah you must not have much of a life to be worried about debating skills on a cycling forum on the net.

Have pity with those who don't have Lance Armstrong in their lives.

 

[ttrider]

If contador goes and does giro-tour next year and wins them both as well as tour and potentially vuelta this year there should be no remining doubt that he truly belongs with people like Mercx and Hiuault and above Lance by a long way and that would mean he would almost equal lances total GT wins by the age at which lance had 1!

 

[Bike Boy]

I say since both riders have won one set each, why don't we let this year be the third and decisive one?

 

[ruswilks]

If contador goes and does giro-tour next year and wins them both as well as tour and potentially vuelta this year there should be no remining doubt that he truly belongs with people like Mercx and Hiuault and above Lance by a long way and that would mean he would almost equal lances total GT wins by the age at which lance had 1!

Would be an amazing achievement, but I can't see Bertie entering 4 consecutive GTs (Tour-Vuelta-Giro-Tour), would love to see him try though!

 

[Francois the Postman]

Would be an amazing achievement, but I can't see Bertie entering 4 consecutive GTs (Tour-Vuelta-Giro-Tour), would love to see him try though!

You know, after having missed out on the last Vuelta because of the whole team situation I think he is quite keen not to miss this year's one. He has already said he is interested to do the Giro next year, and the way he enjoys cycling, he probably doesn't want to sit too many Giro's out in a row either. He loves the big events with tradition and history. That he wants to do the Tour next year seems logical too.

I'm trying to come up with an argument why he wouldn't give 4-in-a-row a shot, all the more as he seems less inclined to take "not winning one" as a personal failure as some others.

If anyone would be able to pull it off, or come darn close trying, he seems to be the guy. IT might depend a bit on what happens at the end of the year with transfers and stuff, but I'm sure the head is willing.

 

[ttrider]

In terms of the 4 in a row yeh it would be awesome but i think he will miss either the vuelta or the giro....but raelly not sure which one. I think it all depends on recovery this winter, if he can recover and do a Basso style quiet Giro prep with maybe pais vasco, fleche wallon, lbl and romandie as his only races it could be possible will be very interesting to wait and see

 

[Barrus]

To be honest, to me it seems like Contador likes riding more than that Armstrong did at his peak. Contador really seems to enjoy himself on his bike and even if he isn't in a certain race specifically for the win, he at least tries quite hard to win, no matter what the race is.

BTW I myself do think he'll ride the vuelta this year, he has been talking about his interest in the parcour for quite a while now

 

[180mmCrank]

I moved this to the clinic - too many comments about doping to leave it in the main pro racing thread.

Terry

 

[redtreviso]

Prime Lance was 1994...He showed all the potential he had. There's no such thing as a miracle.

 

[Polish]

A 38yr old Lance would DEMOLISH a 38yr old Alberto in the TdF.

A 2nd year pro Lance riding with the Curse of the Rainbow Jersey
would STILL be FASTER in the TdF than Alberto with the same.

And yes, Lance in his prime would DESTROY prime Alberto. Its TRUE.

So far, Lance and Alberto have faced off in the tour TWICE.

Lance beat Alberto by 63mins
Alberto beat Lance by 5mins

2010 will be the Tie-Breaker.
Lance is still 58mins ahead.

 

[Wallace]

You know, after having missed out on the last Vuelta because of the whole team situation I think he is quite keen not to miss this year's one. He has already said he is interested to do the Giro next year, and the way he enjoys cycling, he probably doesn't want to sit too many Giro's out in a row either. He loves the big events with tradition and history. That he wants to do the Tour next year seems logical too.

I'm trying to come up with an argument why he wouldn't give 4-in-a-row a shot, all the more as he seems less inclined to take "not winning one" as a personal failure as some others.

If anyone would be able to pull it off, or come darn close trying, he seems to be the guy. IT might depend a bit on what happens at the end of the year with transfers and stuff, but I'm sure the head is willing.

I think the main question about AC going for the Vuelta this year is whether Astana is up to it, not whether he's up for it. After the Giro and the Tour, that's going to be a pretty tired squad. But if he can get a good team of riders who have enough in their legs to support him, then it's hard to imagine AC not winning the race, and pulling off the never-before-accomplished Tour-Vuelta double. I would love to see it happen.

 

[The Hitch]

A 38yr old Lance would DEMOLISH a 38yr old Alberto in the TdF.

A 2nd year pro Lance riding with the Curse of the Rainbow Jersey
would STILL be FASTER in the TdF than Alberto with the same.

And yes, Lance in his prime would DESTROY prime Alberto. Its TRUE.

So far, Lance and Alberto have faced off in the tour TWICE.

Lance beat Alberto by 63mins
Alberto beat Lance by 5mins

2010 will be the Tie-Breaker.
Lance is still 58mins ahead.

But in sport generally it doesnt matter how big or small the margin of victory is, a win is a win. If you win a set 6-0 and lose the next 7-6 you dont go into the third set up by 5, you go in even.