Pro Cycling Manager - anyone played it

[Cobblestoned]

i never use training camps and managed to win the Tour de France on hard with Stijn Devolder (against an in top form contador mind you)..

So, really, the game IS too easy.

People can tell much when day is long
I would like to see your biological passport or a detailed szenario.

Which version, or which year ?
If it was 2010 with that cobbled stage, I would even consider believing you.

That stage screwed up the whole Tdf, so I prefered the version without cobbles.

 

[Havetts]

How can it be so hard to get over the cobbled sections with your main GC guy? Let him follow some guy with high cobbles +75 and start at the head of the peloton, never fallen or punctured that way. Neither did the other GC contenders except for Fränk Schleck, yea I know , so its easy to be fair.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Are you sure you've turned Passive AI off? Cause that option would allow me to get 20 minutes with Menchov attacking on the stage to Morzine Avoriaz.. :S

I'm no noob, I played this game since CyM1 in 2001. I'm know everything there is about this game. Certainly the passive AI influence, that's been known since PCM 2007 already

 

[Cobblestoned]

Not sure what you mean about attacking.

If you are the first to attack... you'll tire out quicker. Those countering your attack will go longer. You don't run into situations very often where you counter another attacker and they keep going while you tire out.

As for working with you... if you are attacking with a marked rider they won't... pretty much like in real life. If at the beginning of a Tour stage Contador or Schleck attacked... those who went with him would never help. Favorites are rarely allowed in the "break of the day".

One interesting thing is finding stages where the peloton lets the break go. I won the Giro with Uran once when on a multiple mountain stage I realized the break was at 15 minutes with 100km left. It was clear the peloton weren't chasing (or maybe they expected my team to... I think my main GC guy was in 5th or 6th). So I attacked with Uran who was 4-5 minutes down on the GC in 10th-13th... and won by 9 minutes. Held on to win with him by 30 seconds or so.... losing bit by bit each stage. Kind of reminded me of last year's Giro in some ways.

Yes thats how it works. Like in real life.

I follow/counterattack the third or fourth attacker and when they are empty I stop attacking after 1-2 seconds, and than wait for next attack - till break is successful. Sometimes I just try with an other rider, when peloton is upset with some names in attack.

Your Giro-story sounds great. Was surely a thrilling race.

@sherer
If they don't relay, they just don't like you in the break or you should try to lower the power. If you ride with 55-60 it often works.
When you go to high then you are left alone or with just 1 other rider who helps.
You can go higher later in race, thats when they seem to ride with more power then too.
75 works fine in final 50 km.

And yes, managing the chasing is not easy when speed and power is high.

 

[Havetts]

Haha, just checking .

Do you know what Gesinks climbing ability is in the PCM 2011 database?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

People can tell much when day is long
I would like to see your biological passport or a detailed szenario.

Which version, or which year ?
If it was 2010 with that cobbled stage, I would even consider believing you.

That stage screwed up the whole Tdf, so I prefered the version without cobbles.

This was PCM 2009, but incidentally, it doesn't make a difference really. I could do it in PCM 2010 as well, probably even easier considering the gameplay flaws.

Once you discovered how to play this game (never attack, use the dot, exploit the weaknesses of the AI), you'll cruise to victory so many times...

 

[hrotha]

That's true of most games, unfortunately. :\

 

[sherer]

Yes thats how it works. Like in real life.

I follow/counterattack the third or fourth attacker and when they are empty I stop attacking after 1-2 seconds, and than wait for next attack - till break is successful. Sometimes I just try with an other rider, when peloton is upset with some names in attack.

Your Giro-story sounds great. Was surely a thrilling race.

@sherer
If they don't relay, they just don't like you in the break or you should try to lower the power. If you ride with 55-60 it often works.
When you go to high then you are left alone or with just 1 other rider who helps.
You can go higher later in race, thats when they seem to ride with more power then too.
75 works fine in final 50 km.

And yes, managing the chasing is not easy when speed and power is high.

What I was referring to was getting in a break at the start of a stage race. Usually I do this with a domestique or average rider, not a Contador or Evans. It just seems you can never get the breaks to work, all the riders are on the attack for what seems like forever, even though all the other riders or nobodies either. When I tire they just go off on their own and you have to cruise back to the peloton.

 

[Cobblestoned]

How can it be so hard to get over the cobbled sections with your main GC guy? Let him follow some guy with high cobbles +75 and start at the head of the peloton, never fallen or punctured that way. Neither did the other GC contenders except for Fränk Schleck, yea I know , so its easy to be fair.

No problem for me, but for other GC guys
I hate to start a Tour with Contador or others 8-15 minutes down on Wiggins and cuddles or something. Just for example.

Of course, giving ALL the GC guys a 70 or something in db-editor also worked.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Haha, just checking .

Do you know what Gesinks climbing ability is in the PCM 2011 database?

I'll take a bet and go for 77

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I don't know, the initial cyanide db is crap and I never use it.

I guess PCM Daily will quickly convert their PCM 2010 - 2011 update to PCM 11, and then Gesink would have 80 climb and 78 hill, they just need to update his ITT stats now

 

[Cobblestoned]

What I was referring to was getting in a break at the start of a stage race. Usually I do this with a domestique or average rider, not a Contador or Evans. It just seems you can never get the breaks to work, all the riders are on the attack for what seems like forever, even though all the other riders or nobodies either. When I tire they just go off on their own and you have to cruise back to the peloton.

Yes, i was talking about getting in break.
You just have to go on exercising I think and always watch your heart rate.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

I don't know, the initial cyanide db is crap and I never use it.

I guess PCM Daily will quickly convert their PCM 2010 - 2011 update to PCM 11, and then Gesink would have 80 climb and 78 hill, they just need to update his ITT stats now

Gesink had more climbing in PCM 2009 82 or something ^^

 

[hrotha]

I'm pretty sure I saw Wiggins with a 79 climb in some update.

 

[Havetts]

I don't know, the initial cyanide db is crap and I never use it.

I guess PCM Daily will quickly convert their PCM 2010 - 2011 update to PCM 11, and then Gesink would have 80 climb and 78 hill, they just need to update his ITT stats now

Awesome, Hills remaining the same but climbing went up by two.

Breaks are easy to form though, just requires to jump at the right time. For example first break always gets caught, when the peloton catches you wait for your heartrate to go down and go again..

 

[Cobblestoned]

D_T did you have the option that the AI is passive turned off? If LtD won you the giro thats sick.

But I always have the feeling the AI is somewhat cheating with the red and yellow bars, I've been riding with the Dot mode all day with my 'own created' rider with 80 climbing and the computer has been attacking 3 times already with A Schleck and Evans, and I catch them everytime without wasting much yellow and red yet when I attack they somehow still have 3 times my energy and counter me four times. So I've stopped attacking, I've just rode tempo up to climbs and thats waaaaay better cause no one goes high tempo at the start of the climb and you can create a gap pretty quickly.

Cobble, tell me the 'secret' what is gesinks climbing in 2011 DB ;p?

Tätärätäääääääääääää !

Climbing 80 ( Contador and Andy 83 )
TT 71 (ok, that db came out before Oman and T-A. would be 85 now )

But see, generally its not just all about climbing value or 1 value.
It's the whole combination and all values that make a rider good.
Gesink, for example, has 76 in fighting and 78 in recuperation, which is quiet helpful too.

 

[Cobblestoned]

You can win pretty much everything with anyone if you use enough training camps. I managed to win L-B-L, Giro, Vuelta and Worlds TT+ RR in the same season with EBH on extreme, who originally has 72 mountain and 76 hill...

Wasn't the number of trainingcamps limited ? I think I read something like that.
If you do that too often, doesn't it impact the training-fatigue to hard ?

I don't even know. I just do what makes sense and then its ok.
I do a 6 day pre-season camp with all riders before Tour Down Under.
Sometimes shortly after that, sometimes before Australian champs when I have an Australian on team.
Then I have a mountain-camp before Giro with Giro-riders, and same before the Tour with Tour-riders.
Thats all.

 

[Parrulo]

This was PCM 2009, but incidentally, it doesn't make a difference really. I could do it in PCM 2010 as well, probably even easier considering the gameplay flaws.

Once you discovered how to play this game (never attack, use the dot, exploit the weaknesses of the AI), you'll cruise to victory so many times...

what do you mean by using the dot? just checking if you use it the same way as me

 

[Cobblestoned]

With regards to the game being easy to dominate... this is very true. Given 2-3 seasons you will usually end up with an unbeatable team, regardless of how bad your team is to start with.

I generally do custom teams and place some sort of limit on the nationalities of my signings. At times I've done the English language only team (only sign from US, Britain, Ireland, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand and Canada). Other times I do teams limited to only the Americas or just slavic countries. My current team (sponsored by ING) only signs riders from the US and the Netherlands.

But to be fair, it always ends like this in nearly every kind of games.
Same with Fussballmanager, or other managers.
That means you are clever, good manager and understood how game works.
Dominance is always boring after you are rich and well-fed on hard level.
Time for a new challenge and just accepting the win.

Especially in C&C, in early years when I was still young , I had these moments. Huge base and army, multiple defence of every kind everywhere after 5-6 hours, and then just enjoying to watch how the opponents crush at my defence.
Final attack then has to wait till my compassion is exhausted.

 

[Parrulo]

actually when playing football manager if you start at the very bottom it can take you a few seasons to get to the top. iirc it took me 5 seasons to win the champions league a couple years ago. i started at the lowest level league in portugal with the team closest to my hometown. i was on a first division team after 2 seasons(not the original team) and in benfica the next season. then 2 seasons building a team with benfica and a some luck and i won the champions league

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

what do you mean by using the dot? just checking if you use it the same way as me

I'm using the "own effort" the whole ride, even on the flat. Always start climbs in front, and then use a low % effort when you know the peloton is not going to break anyway. I often go from front to middle/back of peloton the whole time but it doesn't matter because I lose very little energy, much less than sitting in front all day on "hold position" anyway. Only exception are downhills, where I use hold position.
Then on the final climb I make sure I start near the front or on the front, then keep a steady but high pace during the climb.
I don't care who attacks or how many times, usually they get gobbled up if my GC rider/climber is in good form. And then attack at the very very end (using energy gel also). Ideally you still have red left at the sprint then you can make a huge difference.
Sometimes I've won 2 minutes just in the final 2km...

 

[hrotha]

I'm using the "own effort" the whole ride, even on the flat. Always start climbs in front, and then use a low % effort when you know the peloton is not going to break anyway. I often go from front to middle/back of peloton the whole time but it doesn't matter because I lose very little energy, much less than sitting in front all day on "hold position" anyway. Only exception are downhills, where I use hold position.
Then on the final climb I make sure I start near the front or on the front, then keep a steady but high pace during the climb.
I don't care who attacks or how many times, usually they get gobbled up if my GC rider/climber is in good form. And then attack at the very very end (using energy gel also). Ideally you still have red left at the sprint then you can make a huge difference.
Sometimes I've won 2 minutes just in the final 2km...

That's so gamey and so completely unlike anything vaguely resembling real cycling you should be ashamed

Eurotour was much better in that regard (go check Ryo's thread in the General forum)

 

[Havetts]

Does it really save you that much energy to use own effort on the flat / sprint stages? Once I had it that my GC guy got dropped from the bunch during the sprint seeing I kept him on too low effort I guess.

I always keep my team up front during the whole stage, so it takes a little more time to get dropped or you dont get counted as an A group.

I use my best climber after my gc guy to protect him and to simply drive away from the bunch at the start of the climb and gain some time, using almost 90% of the climbers' power so that my gc guy is up front with less energy wasted and then usually going a high steady tempo with the dot.

 

[Cobblestoned]

This was PCM 2009, but incidentally, it doesn't make a difference really. I could do it in PCM 2010 as well, probably even easier considering the gameplay flaws.

Once you discovered how to play this game (never attack, use the dot, exploit the weaknesses of the AI), you'll cruise to victory so many times...

I would like to see you playing PCM.

I am playing for 6 years now and figured out that this is sometimes even more realistic, cause this might work out because of many reasons, but you have no guarantee that it always works out.

If some GC guys attack and play some tactical games and watch each other before next attack or do some mindgames, then someone like Ullrich or Sastre maybe quicker and in better control of body, because they do a constant speed all the time. But on their personal constant diesel-limit, that might be quicker than some guys attacking and waiting all the time.

If I follow attacks and see other guys are not working or to slow, I go in dot mode for some meter and see what happens, but never completely slow down even if they just hang on.
There might be danger of Dekker-Tifosi coming from back in dot-mode.

Always depends on situation. I just do what makes sense and don't try any tricks.

Could be all worse and I am happy. I think it is not easy to develope a perfect and flawless AI for a cycling-game.

 

[Havetts]

If I follow attacks and see other guys are not working or to slow, I go in dot mode for some meter and see what happens, but never completely slow down even if they just hang on.
There might be danger of Dekker-Tifosi coming from back in dot-mode.

Problem is, DT or anyone who goes dot 24/7, will not be behind the group but morelikely infront of it so when people attack they get to the 'dotdriver ' and then are kind of exhausted while the dotrider is wasting wayyyyyyy less energy and can still push up the tempo higher .