Proof of government doping program in Russia

[DirtyWorks]

It was when Stepanov talked about officials trying to make sure that top athletes in certain sports won't be tested. When asked which spots he named cycling amongst others. It's at 23:26

Woops! I wonder how much that costs?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Story released by the AP in the U.S., so it will be everywhere.

I love the photo used here:
http://www.usnews.com/news/sports/articles/2014/12/03/russia-facing-allegations-of-systematic-doping

Anyone remember 2nd place's controversy?

The way the story is told, the IAAF's role in this is minimized despite the fact the refund came from a senior IAAF official. This, in my estimation, is average IOC sport corruption.

 

[Aapjes]

A very good write-up too by AP. This cannot be ignored now.

 

[slowspoke]

It's in the Guardian too. It seems very damning.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/dec/03/russia-accused-athletics-doping-cover-up-olympics

 

[blackcat]

again, very fair points by Dear Wiggo and Screaming Fist.

Otoh,
1. who in his right state of mind and with a desire to live goes traveling through Russia to investigate state sponsored doping?
I think only someone with a good level of protection from above would do that.

2. the recent suppression by government and NADO of a huge and damning report on doping in Germany up to present had all the ingredients of a story that Hajo could pursue. Why didn't he? If he's to convince me that he's not on the German government's bandwagon, I expect some sort of reference to that report in tonight's program.

ask martin vinnicombe on hurdler liu xiang

 

[Benotti69]

So Russia runs state sponsored doping and yet at the Olympics in track, TeamGB swept the boards, hmmmmmmmmm

 

[MrKangaroo]

I downloaded the report and was thinking if I should try subbing it. Anyone interested?

 

[python]

i see a high probability of at least 2 huge consequences of the film...

- their athletics federation either expelled from the international competition for a while or forced to clean up management/training staff cardinally
(the evidence if the federation head taking payments seems too real with all the records and emails...)

- their wada lab will be suspended (less evidence, but still plenty if wada gets mad)

what i found curious, was that the footage of nordic skiers faces (legkov, vyleg, chernousov) was more frequent, or at least out of proportion with any on-screen or audio evidence, compared with the mountains of evidence in the athletics..

 

[Benotti69]

i see a high probability of at least 2 huge consequences of the film...

- their athletics federation either expelled from the international competition for a while or forced to clean up management/training staff cardinally
(the evidence if the federation head taking payments seems too real with all the records and emails...)

- their wada lab will be suspended (less evidence, but still plenty if wada gets mad)

what i found curious, was that the footage of nordic skiers faces (legkov, vyleg, chernousov) was more frequent, or at least out of proportion with any on-screen or audio evidence, compared with the mountains of evidence in the athletics..

The Germans have their own agenda. They are quick to look outside Germany for doping. What about their national football team and the team doctor. Kimmage remembers him and a hotel bed full of syringes at Fagor.

 

[The Hitch]

Hopefully Conconi client Seb Coe chimes in next.

Coe was a Conconi client?

 

[python]

The Germans have their own agenda. They are quick to look outside Germany for doping. What about their national football team and the team doctor. Kimmage remembers him and a hotel bed full of syringes at Fagor.

i agree...i think sniper has it right at least in part - the current political mess in europe makes such a film an easily digestible and profitable red meat...that the germans know how to dope i know first hand.

 

[MrKangaroo]

The Germans have their own agenda.

Yes because German's act like the Borg with one single agenda.

If you took 5 mins to look up the journalist behind this you'd know that your post makes no sense.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

this is NOT news. nor is it remotely accurate.

rather a typical media hype to SELL something as news about an easily demonizable target.

several posters, including one of my recent posts in the xc skiing doping thread related an insider info. specifically, i have alluded to the high likelihood of the russians using the gases to get an edge...

the 'unfortunate' fact was that the use was NOT illegal under the WADA rules in effect then.

NOW, it is.

big deal ? yes and no, b/c everything scientific i was able to find is pointing to a very minor effect compared to epo, yet likely sufficient against anyone
NOT using the stuff.

Hajo Seppelt has broke many big stories of doping in sport. He uncovered Contador's positive when the UCI was trying to keep it quite. He uncovered a lot of the details of Fuentes operation, including his German transfusion tech, Markus Choina. He also did a big expose on the doping of Kenyan distance runners

This will likely be big news

So was it "NOT news"? or "big news"?

Seems like the Olympic folks should be looking at every countries "programs".

 

[Mellow Velo]

So Russia runs state sponsored doping and yet at the Olympics in track, TeamGB swept the boards, hmmmmmmmmm

You might well have had a point there.
If the point you had was correct.
It isn't, so you don't.
Again.

 

[python]

my post #4 in this thread was very specifically and only about the xenon and the other likely gases allegedly used as doping products. it was a response to the pre-view material referring to the subject gasses...

since i watched the film in its original and in full, i can confidently say, that compared to the mountain of evidence related to other doping products it there was practically nothing on the gasses. certainly nothing new.

in that regard, my earlier post was absolutely correct ....regarding other evidence i already posted my opinion in other posts.

 

[BullsFan22]

i see a high probability of at least 2 huge consequences of the film...

- their athletics federation either expelled from the international competition for a while or forced to clean up management/training staff cardinally
(the evidence if the federation head taking payments seems too real with all the records and emails...)

- their wada lab will be suspended (less evidence, but still plenty if wada gets mad)

what i found curious, was that the footage of nordic skiers faces (legkov, vyleg, chernousov) was more frequent, or at least out of proportion with any on-screen or audio evidence, compared with the mountains of evidence in the athletics..

Legkov and Chernousov were both training with the Burgermeister group at the time, in fact did so from 2010-end of this past winter. If there is systematic doping from them, it's not from the Russian government, but from private, outside sources. They trained with Cologna quite frequently, as Cologna's former coach was a German physio who worked with the two of them since Vancouver. I think the footage was tactically put in there as nordic skiing is an endurance sport, the Russians swept the 50km and naturally it would be an easy target for German television. Whether proven right or not, the Germans couldn't have done anything better/more with this. The question I have is when is Germany going to look into their skiers, biathletes, cyclists, nordic combiners, footballers, swimmers, t&f athletes, handballers, and other sports where the government floods money to and has shown, numerous times, world domination?

 

[MrKangaroo]

skiers, biathletes, cyclists, nordic combiners, footballers, swimmers, t&f athletes, handballers, and other sports where the government floods money to and has shown, numerous times, world domination?

Not that I think they are above doping but when have any of them ever shown world domination other than the women in Biathlon?

 

[BullsFan22]

You might well have had a point there.
If the point you had was correct.
It isn't, so you don't.
Again.

Prove him wrong.

 

[kenk09]

Prove him wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletics_at_the_2012_Summer_Olympics

 

[python]

Legkov and Chernousov were both training with the Burgermeister group ..... The question I have is when is Germany going to look into their skiers, biathletes, cyclists, nordic combiners, footballers, swimmers, t&f athletes, handballers, and other sports where the government floods money to and has shown, numerous times, world domination?

from my posting in xc threads, you probably knew that i was well aware of the reto group...i even recently raised an eye brow about legkov breaking with burgermeister and behaving somewhat chaotically as if he was running away from ADAMS..that said, and this is a pure hunch, i would trust his time with reto much more than ANY time with their sprint coach kaminski...

regarding the second part of your post, i trust Hajo is a true enough professional with integrity, but his investigating priorities, or more accurately his publishing priorities, are likely set up by his government emplyer.

but i will say this, if there was ever an incentive to investigate doping in the norwegian xc skiing I would personally write a substantial check to see the effort lead by hajo.

 

[Benotti69]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletics_at_the_2012_Summer_Olympics

How about posting a link to the velodrome results from the last 2 olympics?

 

[the sceptic]

Russia got fewer golds than GB at the london olympics.

Someone should perhaps take a look into british sports.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Russia got fewer golds than GB at the london olympics.

Someone should perhaps take a look into british sports.

But they got more medals because the competition was weak, yeah?

 

[kenk09]

It was Britain all along. I should have known. Doping uncovered in Russian track and field (where they got 3 times as many medals as Britain), so Britain must have been doping in everything else.

Good work again guys.

 

[Benotti69]

It was Britain all along. I should have known. Doping uncovered in Russian track and field (where they got 3 times as many medals as Britain), so Britain must have been doping in everything else.

Good work again guys.

State sponsored doping. The Russians ignored the other sports? I dont think so. Try again.