Pulling a Wiggins

[The Hitch]

I said it's hard to lose even a kilo when you're only muscles. You may think: "yeah, they are all day on the bike climbing hills, they lose 10 kilos from Monday to Thursday. That's why people go to gym, to lose fat. They are like 6 hours a day at intensive gym." It's not like that at all. A fat person lose 20 kilos faster than a cyclist 5 kilos. It's one getting rid of fat and it's something different reducing your muscle mass.

Ok, and what part of my post are you responding to?

 

[The Hitch]

Stephen Swart confessed without any pressure. He wanted to clear his conscience.

How many millions of pounds did that confession cost him? And what did they do about the kinghthood he had received. What about the New Zealand sports personality of the year, all the olympic gold medals he had won the Tour de France? Did he get to keep those at least? Did people begin to see those victories as tainted?

 

[McLovin]

Ok, and what part of my post are you responding to?

"Wiggins strongest rider in the world because he lost weight (why doesn't everyone else do that then?)"

I quote it before. Take a look.

Sorry for the continuous offtopic, but I found the clip from 2004 Tourmalet. Tyler had a big behind and some big legs for his small body.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RF3spKhTdyk#t=157

 

[The Hitch]

"Wiggins strongest rider in the world because he lost weight (why doesn't everyone else do that then?)"

I quote it before. Take a look.

That is called sarcasm. Wigginsfan05722, gave loss of weight as a simple reason for why cleany mclean could learn to climb like Lance,

I ask, if its so simple that a guy who sees 1 chance at the Tour can just lose all that weight and become a worlds best climber, how comes no one else can manage to do that.

 

[roundabout]

"Wiggins strongest rider in the world because he lost weight (why doesn't everyone else do that then?)"

I quote it before. Take a look.

Sorry for the continuous offtopic, but I found the clip from 2004 Tourmalet. Tyler had a big behind and some big legs for his small body.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RF3spKhTdyk#t=157

offtopic and ontopic

And Wiggins gets trouble for omitting Sastre from the list of "clean" winners

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=591

The top-30, no, 40 is hilarious.

But don limpio still limped home to 5th despite all his attacking.

 

[thehog]

I will agree the other riders you list were fat by Sky standards, and you may have a point with Hamilton for the Phonak/Tinkoff years. I think end of USPS and early CSC he rivals at least Wiggins. Chicken and Dawg are on another level.

Back on topic, I can see Wiggins getting black out drunk and shooting his mouth off about something incriminating.

First paragraph, yes.

Second paragraph. Hagan and Stannard will be the first to break and say something. A hint at the very least to come.

Wiggins will take his secrets with him.

Hagan on the Dawg program would be Ullrich. Kid don't want to play though.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Only an idiot would put someone as loose as Wiggo on a team program

DB is no idiot.


(unlike me apparently for having an odd thought along these lines)

No team program imo.

 

[The Hitch]

offtopic and ontopic

And Wiggins gets trouble for omitting Sastre from the list of "clean" winners

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=591

The top-30, no, 40 is hilarious.

But don limpio still limped home to 5th despite all his attacking.

Your preaching to the choir as far as Sastre is concerned. Wiggos comment was messed up because he offered Ferrari Evans as the clean tdf winner.what has Evans done that makes him clean over Sastre?

 

[Archibald]

How many millions of pounds did that confession cost him? And what did they do about the kinghthood he had received. What about the New Zealand sports personality of the year, all the olympic gold medals he had won the Tour de France? Did he get to keep those at least? Did people begin to see those victories as tainted?

don't forget the "I don't want to have to face my kids" speech too

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

First paragraph, yes.

Second paragraph. Hagan and Stannard will be the first to break and say something. A hint at the very least to come.

Wiggins will take his secrets with him.

Hagan on the Dawg program would be Ullrich. Kid don't want to play though.

That only makes me like him more. He could be just like unkle Thor...

 

[thehog]

That only makes me like him more. He could be just like unkle Thor...

Well he is an odd one.

Stand him side by side with Froome and EBH has more talent in his right earlobe than Froome put together.

Why has he stayed flat since 2010 and Froome/Porte/Wiggins went gangbusters?

He was meant to be the next big thing.

He needs to get out.

And what's going on there with Stannard? Why won't they resign him?

 

[42x16ss]

Well he is an odd one.

Stand him side by side with Froome and EBH has more talent in his right earlobe than Froome put together.

Why has he stayed flat since 2010 and Froome/Porte/Wiggins went gangbusters?

He was meant to be the next big thing.

He needs to get out.

And what's going on there with Stannard? Why won't they resign him?

Is this the first sign of cracks? I bet whispers will start up when/if EBH and Stannard find new teams. Could be a case of:

They don't want the Full Ret. program and are trying to show a moral compass or
They want in but it's only the GT boys allowed?

EBH was progressing nicely in 2011, two TdF stage wins and other nice results, since then, nothing This could get interesting, when is EBH's contract up anyway? And like you said, WTF is happening with Stannard? He's a properly good rider, you'd think Sky would hold on to him. Then again, they let riders like Dowsett, Hayman and Gerrans go without any thought of replacing them.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Well he is an odd one.

Stand him side by side with Froome and EBH has more talent in his right earlobe than Froome put together.

Why has he stayed flat since 2010 and Froome/Porte/Wiggins went gangbusters?

He was meant to be the next big thing.

He needs to get out.

And what's going on there with Stannard? Why won't they resign him?

To get support for the classics he certainly does need to leave. That's a crying shame.

That's what kicks my @ss, I'd like to cheer for some of the Sky boys, but most of them - coupled with the inherent team @ss-hatness - make me dislike them terribly.

But, I'll still root for EBH when he's in a good break...

 

[42x16ss]

I don't even think Sky see EBH as a classics/breakaway guy, he's just a flatland dom/rouleur to Brailsford. It's almost like anyone who isn't a key part of the GT squad is expendable because they struggle to see the point of any other type of rider.

 

[blackcat]

That is called sarcasm. Wigginsfan05722, gave loss of weight as a simple reason for why cleany mclean could learn to climb like Lance,

I ask, if its so simple that a guy who sees 1 chance at the Tour can just lose all that weight and become a worlds best climber, how comes no one else can manage to do that.

actually, this market efficiency theory, is trumped by my economic market theory.

Before Wiggins started doping at Garmin, he would have been earning max, US$200k per annum. Then he top 10s in the Giro and has a solid Tour, he jumps to US$450k.

In the previous decade at Linda MAc, FDJ, Cofidis, High Road, and the GB Cycling grants, he would have averaged under US$200k.

Now he ears 2 million GBP per annum.

So this lose weight, GC playa' theory, goes out the window and trumped by this economic incentive premise.

If he always had the potential in his legs to earn 5 times, 10 times what he did, he would have done it a decade ago at Linda McCartney. But I dont begrudge him, they all dope, and he doped at each of his other teams. And doping is not a naughty word the forum makes it out to be.

 

[timmers]

Well he is an odd one.

Stand him side by side with Froome and EBH has more talent in his right earlobe than Froome put together.

Why has he stayed flat since 2010 and Froome/Porte/Wiggins went gangbusters?

He was meant to be the next big thing.

He needs to get out.

And what's going on there with Stannard? Why won't they resign him?

Early Developer

Not That Good When Racing With The Big Boys

 

[42x16ss]

He was actually VERY good racing with the big boys. Before the focus went to Froome, Wiggins and Cav EBH WAS one of the big boys. Excellent sprinter and even better stage hunter.

Oh that's right, it was pre 2011 Vuelta

 

[Catwhoorg]

2012 was EBH's best year for getting CQ points and his best ranking (6th joint with his 'breakout' year at HTC)

He is very consistent, and shows a year on year increase in points earned at SKY (though he did drop from that HTC year initially), until you come to the broken shoulder in 2013.

He isn't winning a huge amount, but lots of placings and consistency in performance. I'd love to see him do a little better.

His stage hunting is going to be limited at the TDF for Sky, thats for sure, but he will rack up points elsewhere.

 

[JimmyFingers]

No team program imo.

Did a double take at this, mainly because I agree!

 

[thehog]

actually, this market efficiency theory, is trumped by my economic market theory.

Before Wiggins started doping at Garmin, he would have been earning max, US$200k per annum. Then he top 10s in the Giro and has a solid Tour, he jumps to US$450k.

In the previous decade at Linda MAc, FDJ, Cofidis, High Road, and the GB Cycling grants, he would have averaged under US$200k.

Now he ears 2 million GBP per annum.

So this lose weight, GC playa' theory, goes out the window and trumped by this economic incentive premise.

If he always had the potential in his legs to earn 5 times, 10 times what he did, he would have done it a decade ago at Linda McCartney. But I dont begrudge him, they all dope, and he doped at each of his other teams. And doping is not a naughty word the forum makes it out to be.

Yes. There's no science like money!

 

[Ferminal]

Yeh, Norway got a 2.1 and he went to Peking.

It's pretty simple, either he's a long term doper or has always been clean (and thus by now would probably expect to stay clean the rest of his career). Very consistent over several seasons suggests clean or a highly stable and independent program (imo this is a reasonable inference, although consistency may a bit harder to measure for a rider of his type compared to say a GC rider who peaks for the Tour every year).

If he's not winning Monuments or Paris-Nice it's because he's a doper and not much left to improve (other dopers are better) or he's awesome (clean), not able to topple the best dopers. I say this because given his rapid development from an early age it's hard to say that he's just an average clean rider.

Ugh, or did he get on the Highroad program in 2009? I've never really looked at that before. Maybe he dopes but not as much as the big guns. He definitely had a clean break from them and transitioned perfectly into Sky, unlike other suspects.

So it's not really that simple I still reckon clean.

Anyway, the point I really want to make is that for his performance to improve at Sky would mean that he's either on their rampant team-wide program or Tim Kerrison is a miracle or something and can actually make you better than other professional cyclists. Both of those views are quite extreme.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

or Tim Kerrison is a miracle or something and can actually make you better than other professional cyclists. Both of those views are quite extreme.

Let's consider the implication of this, if it's true. Not sure which thread to put it in, but the factors possible would include:

1. AWC - anaerobic work capacity
2. efficiency
3. typical hema increases - via training ???
4. ??? where there could be n more factors trainable

And it has to happen in what, 30 minutes (David Walsh)? 12 months? 6 weeks?

The miracle he is performing is occurring in an aerobic sport, hardly unique in that regard. If he is in fact doing something legit and miraculous, are Sky keeping it to themselves because that way they can control knowledge transfer / potential leaks vs sharing it with other aerobic endurance athletes in the UK sporting system? Triathletes, 5k+ runners, enduro MTBers and endurance swimmers, for example, should all be able to take advantage of his brilliance.

 

[martinvickers]

Let's consider the implication of this, if it's true. Not sure which thread to put it in, but the factors possible would include:

1. AWC - anaerobic work capacity
2. efficiency
3. typical hema increases - via training ???
4. ??? where there could be n more factors trainable

And it has to happen in what, 30 minutes (David Walsh)? 12 months? 6 weeks?

The miracle he is performing is occurring in an aerobic sport, hardly unique in that regard. If he is in fact doing something legit and miraculous, are Sky keeping it to themselves because that way they can control knowledge transfer / potential leaks vs sharing it with other aerobic endurance athletes in the UK sporting system? Triathletes, 5k+ runners, enduro MTBers and endurance swimmers, for example, should all be able to take advantage of his brilliance.

Doesn't seem to me like the Brownlees or Stanford (Triathlon) or Farah (5000m) need a lot of Sky's help.

 

[RownhamHill]

actually, this market efficiency theory, is trumped by my economic market theory.

Before Wiggins started doping at Garmin, he would have been earning max, US$200k per annum. Then he top 10s in the Giro and has a solid Tour, he jumps to US$450k.

In the previous decade at Linda MAc, FDJ, Cofidis, High Road, and the GB Cycling grants, he would have averaged under US$200k.

Now he ears 2 million GBP per annum.

So this lose weight, GC playa' theory, goes out the window and trumped by this economic incentive premise.

If he always had the potential in his legs to earn 5 times, 10 times what he did, he would have done it a decade ago at Linda McCartney. But I dont begrudge him, they all dope, and he doped at each of his other teams. And doping is not a naughty word the forum makes it out to be.

This makes no sense as an explanation for anything really. Surely since he now does earn 10 times what he did, then by definition, he always had the potential to do so?

And also, given the economic incentives of being a top GC rider were just as tempting 10 years ago as they are now, the interesting question you raise is why was he content to concentrate on the track/Olympic cycle as a younger rider, before transforming into a GC guy?

Yeah you can think that the transformation in his climbing was enabled by drug induced weight loss, fine, but that's an explanation of 'how' he transformed. It doesn't answer 'why' he transformed at that particular time, and neither does pointing to 'market incentives' either, because those incentives didn't just suddenly appear in 2009, they'd been there the entire length of his career.

 

[rainman]

2012 was EBH's best year for getting CQ points and his best ranking (6th joint with his 'breakout' year at HTC)

He is very consistent, and shows a year on year increase in points earned at SKY (though he did drop from that HTC year initially), until you come to the broken shoulder in 2013.

He isn't winning a huge amount, but lots of placings and consistency in performance. I'd love to see him do a little better.

His stage hunting is going to be limited at the TDF for Sky, thats for sure, but he will rack up points elsewhere.

He certainly can't be on any weight loss regime, maybe at odds with the whole system. I cant imagine him singing the Sky anthem at six every morning either.