Pulling a Wiggins

[Wallace and Gromit]

...the Sky fans post outrage as per usual.

It's more amused resignation from the Sky fans. One doesn't tend to get too outraged if one has the mindset that takes on board the history of cycling and certain riders and still concludes that these are the guys to support.

The outrage is generally expressed by the anti-Sky faction, who seem to take things much more seriously.

 

[JimmyFingers]

If Sky fans wanted to contribute to the discussion they would offer other exmaples and riders that BroDeal asked for but the Sky fans post outrage as per usual.

The same old song being used the excuse the proliferation of Sky threads, and the fact that Sky usually gets brought up in non-Sky threads, blame the defenders, except its not the defenders of Sky that post these threads is it.

There are myopic, rabidly anti-Sky, anti-British posters who want every discussion to be about them so they can use it as a platform for their antipathy. I don't consider you in that bracket, as you have always attacked every rider and team with an even hand, but just as there are 'fanboys' there are their equal opposites. Tired of getting the blame for that.

One of the best was the Kittel tweet thread, where the main thrust of it quickly veered away from Sayar and onto Froome and Sky. We're not the ones that constantly bring them up, and that's the truth, Ruth.

(And I know your name isn't Ruth).

 

[Benotti69]

The same old song being used the excuse the proliferation of Sky threads, and the fact that Sky usually gets brought up in non-Sky threads, blame the defenders, except its not the defenders of Sky that post these threads is it.

There are myopic, rabidly anti-Sky, anti-British posters who want every discussion to be about them so they can use it as a platform for their antipathy. I don't consider you in that bracket, as you have always attacked every rider and team with an even hand, but just as there are 'fanboys' there are their equal opposites. Tired of getting the blame for that.

One of the best was the Kittel tweet thread, where the main thrust of it quickly veered away from Sayar and onto Froome and Sky. We're not the ones that constantly bring them up, and that's the truth, Ruth.

(And I know your name isn't Ruth).

there you go with the outrage.

Offer some examples of riders who doped for the one and only big win to then cruise on for the rest of their career. The topic only cited Wiggins as an example. Sky fans have again turned it into a sky thread. Instead of offering examples they vent their outrage.

Back on topic.

Cobo has to be another who has not only taken his foot of the gas but seems intent of getting out of the car!

 

[JimmyFingers]

Actually I think you'll find it stems from a discussion of Wiggins' career, and Ferminal's assertion he 'hasn't got enough from his career'.But don't let the facts get in the way, just blame the fanboys as usual. Easier that way.

 

[sniper]

Actually I think you'll find it stems from a discussion of Wiggins' career, and Ferminal's assertion he 'hasn't got enough from his career'.But don't let the facts get in the way, just blame the fanboys as usual. Easier that way.

Ferminal's wiggo-remark was a footnote, which was then unnecessarily and inaccurately taken out of context and placed in the center of the discussion, not by Ferminal, but by upset wiggo-fans.

EDIT: and if aynthing, Ferminal's comment was a compliment (wiggo with his talent could've gotten more out of it), but it was as so often interpreted as an insult by his overdefensive fans.

 

[Galic Ho]

As I said, this isn't a discussion about whether he was doping or not.

Sorry this is the Clinic. You just walked into a strip joint and said no tits. Sorry but it's tits or GTFO. Clinic, doping is a pre-requisite and is ALLOWED.

As for the topic King Boonen, when has Bro Deal ever created a thread in the Clinic and the talk of doping has NOT been central to the thread topic?

As for the topic. We know both the new candidates from Sky are gagging at the leash. Froome and his psuedo BFF Richie Rich. Both are too stupid to know when to stop. Maybe if one leaves Sky, the gig might be up. Maybe. The ridiculousness of this whole thing is that the Americans have it. Only Horner can match Wiggins absurdness. We know Sky aren't going to stop and Horner's age and a preferable parcours are what allowed his full blown *** GT escapades. Honestly I don't see anyone matching Sky and going full blown mental *** with a guy who has no chance.

Why? You need the money aka a teams huge financial backing and desire to earn it. Wiggins knew Sky had $$$ and an opportunity was arising. He was older, 29 when he suddenly transformed. So that is two criteria. All the upcomers are YOUNGER which makes identifying a Wiggins type emergence harder. The Italians crack down on this crap very well. The Spanish haven't had a Wiggins middle aged winner going from zero to hero since...well I can't name any. They all had palmares better than the Sky juggernaut. The only riders I can think of doing this might be Cancellara, Martin or maybe Rogers. The first two are too smart to do a Wiggins. I particularly liked King Boonens suggestion Wiggins might have a crack at Roubaix. Dream on. Not on this drug program. Gotta go full blown *** to have a chance and he won't drop the weight again.

Then again we do have other means to identify contenders. Those who suddenly find they've acquired some unknown physical ailment. The freakier the better. They're candidates. People who zig zag up mountain passes count. Guys who get dropped by the groupetto also count. Deliberately slowing down to drop out of the Tour aka Kirilenka does not qualify a rider. Faking is not good enough. Gotta have the room to grow on the drug program. Suddenly entering the end of the year and finding your contract is up is another requirement. Froome and Horner are both examples of having no extension and then suddenly becoming a world beater. Oh and to be really cute...gotta be Anglo Saxon in origin. As sleek and Lance like as you can be in front of the camera helps. You gotta believe the crap you're pushing to the public. Fill those requirements, have been crap for most of your career, or someone's lackey domestique till you were 38-39...yeah, I think we can sign you up. Brailsford should write a book on this. It's solid GOLD.

 

[King Boonen]

Ferminal's wiggo-remark was a footnote, which was then unnecessarily and inaccurately taken out of context and placed in the center of the discussion, not by Ferminal, but by upset wiggo-fans.

EDIT: and if aynthing, Ferminal's comment was a compliment (wiggo with his talent could've gotten more out of it), but it was as so often interpreted as an insult by his overdefensive fans.

Really though? At the time he was winning Gold medals at the Olympics hardly anyone in Britain cared about road racing, this would have extended to Wiggins even if he was winning road races at the time. Wiggins career path has gone from a Gold-medal winning Olympian, which caught the British publics' attention, to being the first Englishman to win the Tour. If you look at it only in terms of road racing then yes, his career could have been better, but that's like looking at someone career only in terms of one job when they have done several and is unfair.

He's had a fantastic career, especially as competition wasn't, and probably still isn't, as great on the track but that gets glossed over by the British media. I'd say that if he had ridden more on the road his overall career would have been worse.

I certainly didn't interpret it as an insult, but then I'm not much of a Wiggins fan, just as inaccurate when you take everything he has done into account.

 

[King Boonen]

Sorry this is the Clinic. You just walked into a strip joint and said no tits. Sorry but it's tits or GTFO. Clinic, doping is a pre-requisite and is ALLOWED.

Go deflect and cry with your melted ice-cream in the corner.

I didn't say it wasn't allowed, I said it wasn't the discussion I was having.

 

[sniper]

You just walked into a strip joint and said no tits.

dude, i was having my post-lunch cappuccino.
it's all over my screen now.

 

[sniper]

Really though? At the time he was winning Gold medals at the Olympics hardly anyone in Britain cared about road racing, this would have extended to Wiggins even if he was winning road races at the time. Wiggins career path has gone from a Gold-medal winning Olympian, which caught the British publics' attention, to being the first Englishman to win the Tour. If you look at it only in terms of road racing then yes, his career could have been better, but that's like looking at someone career only in terms of one job when they have done several and is unfair.

He's had a fantastic career, especially as competition wasn't, and probably still isn't, as great on the track but that gets glossed over by the British media. I'd say that if he had ridden more on the road his overall career would have been worse.

I certainly didn't interpret it as an insult, but then I'm not much of a Wiggins fan, just as inaccurate when you take everything he has done into account.

fair enough.
no debating that he had a fantastic carreer.
still, most here sense that with the proper mindset (read: a proper program) he could be highly competitive for years to come.

and to be sure, if would be foolish to write him off already.

 

[King Boonen]

If he stays with Sky he's done unless Froome gets injured/drops off. His style doesn't suit the Giro or Vuelta very much and they are less likely to add TT miles to cater to him.

I can see him doing well back on the track and possibly in the classics if he keeps the weight on. Not sure if he fancies it though. If he's scared descending surely the thought of a crash in Arenberg causes him to mess his bib shorts?

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

still, most here sense that with the proper mindset (read: a proper program) he could be highly competitive for years to come.

Wiggo's 33 already. I don't think there have many properly competitive GT rides by riders over this age, let alone victories, so the odds are he'd be fighting a losing battle even if fully motivated.

 

[King Boonen]

As for the topic King Boonen, when has Bro Deal ever created a thread in the Clinic and the talk of doping has NOT been central to the thread topic?

As I said, it's not the discussion I was having with Ferminal.

 

[Galic Ho]

dude, i was having my post-lunch cappuccino.
it's all over my screen now.

Sorry, I just needed a very strong analogy at that moment.

I'm not picking on you King Boonen, but come on, stay on topic. It is the Clinic and people will talk about doping. Like I said, Bro Deal started the thread. It's a given. Just like the sun rising in the morning.

I personally am still waiting for Team Sherpa from Nepal to turn up and get put on the Sky marginal gains program. A whole team of climbers where the worst is Quintana level. Gonna be AWESOME!!!

 

[King Boonen]

The OP states doping as a given, which is why I didn't want to get involved in a discussion about it. That and there are more than enough threads to discuss Wiggins/Froome?Sky and their preparation.

 

[Galic Ho]

Wiggo's 33 already. I don't think there have many properly competitive GT rides by riders over this age, let alone victories, so the odds are he'd be fighting a losing battle even if fully motivated.

How old was Evans when he won the Tour? A year older.

How old was Carlos Sastre when he won? How many GT's in the space of two years did he kick **** at? At the same age mind you? Bro Deals point stands...Wiggins is running scared and backed off big time.

I say good on him personally. One less joke is good for cycling. Now he's believable. Well kind of, if I squint hard enough.

 

[Galic Ho]

The OP states doping as a given, which is why I didn't want to get involved in a discussion about it. That and there are more than enough threads to discuss Wiggins/Froome?Sky and their preparation.

Fair enough. Then don't. No need to demand everyone else don't do it.

Most will just leave their one comment. When you bring it up again and again, it could derail the thread. Just saying.

Carry on by all means. Throw some names out if you want. I gave the requirements for some. I still think based on the Sky graph of career progression they have another Froome on the squad. Ian Stennard. Or was it Pete Kennaugh? Geraint Thomas was too high up on the graph. Yeah they'll all want a piece of the pie soon enough. Too many Roosters in the hen house. If it all spills over, this will play a part.

Older guys? Yeah Michael Rogers should have a crack. Simon Gerrans. I'd buy either of them before the other Anglo Saxons. Note they aren't morons so they won't do it.

 

[skidmark]

After juicing his performance to levels unseen in his career, Wiggins now cannot be bothered to ever try for a grand tour again. Convenient. Hesjedal was pretty much a joke this season. Even Contador does not seem willing to risk much. Is this the new strategy for doping: Dope yourself to the moon then coast on the results?

Who is next?

Are you suggesting that top-level athletes don't want to win? I dunno, I think Wiggins is a special case, he seems to need to be in control whether it's dominating or just giving up. I'm not convinced by your other examples - Hesjedal was animating the Giro until it was apparent that he didn't have legs for whatever reason (I suppose you could make a doping argument), and Contador clearly only didn't attack every 5 seconds in the Tour because he was about to blow. So I don't think those guys were coasting, I just think they sucked. I suppose there's a possible premise that Contador is doping less because he's been suspended and doesn't want to lose his whole career, and this is what he's like when he's doped less. But I don't think it's because he doesn't want to win. He maybe just doesn't want to win as bad as Di Luca.

Like hrotha said, Pereiro. Maybe Horner, now. But Nibali and Froome don't seem to be 'coasting', although I guess we'll see with Froome next year.

 

[King Boonen]

Fair enough. Then don't. No need to demand everyone else don't do it.

I didn't. I merely stated that it wasn't the discussion I was having that people jumped in to and it wasn't a discussion I wanted to have. People can do what they want, just don't reply to me, quote my posts or put my name in your post if you aren't trying to discuss it with me (that's general, not specifically to Galic Ho).

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

How old was Evans when he won the Tour? A year older.

How old was Carlos Sastre when he won? How many GT's in the space of two years did he kick **** at? At the same age mind you? Bro Deals point stands...Wiggins is running scared and backed off big time.

The age of Evans and Sastre was why I made reference to "not many" GT winners older than Wiggo.

Their performances since, plus Basso's (32 when he won the Giro in 2010) suggest that there's not much likelihood of additional GTs once you've won one in your 30s.

Maybe that was actually your point.

Wiggo wasn't going so badly in the Giro this year, at least uphill and on the flat. It's only since then that he's obviously given up on GTs; he was maybe a kg or two heavier for the Giro than last year's Tour, but his major weight gain - the most overt sign of having given up on GTS - has been since the Giro.

 

[martinvickers]

No whitewashing, please. Those planets apparently aligned for a whole year, and for all the ITT kilometers, the only rider who managed to drop Wiggins in the mountains was his teammate and domestique Froome.

A year of one week races won in dominant TT's, to be fair, and really, who else was really on mountain form in that tour, bar nibali? Andy and Berti were out, Menchov was..well, Menchov. Frank pinged and Evans was dogging it (not unlike Wiggsy this year, actually!). Quintana, Purito, would have crucified him.

 

[BroDeal]

It did not take the handbag ladies long to make everything about Sky. Even Vickers managed to crawl out of his hole. It is telling how sensitive they are; obviously even they smell the stench.

 

[BroDeal]

It did not take long for the handbag ladies to turn the thread into a hilarious example of "defend Sky at any cost". Really pathetic. The Sky stench is so great that they cannot even contribute anything to the purpose of the thread. That is pure unadulterated fanboyism at its worst.

It looks like Vickers is stuck in 2012. He still sticking with the BS about no one being in form. The funny thing is the same thing happened to Horner at the Vuelta.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Endcapping his career with another track gold in Rio makes a whole lot of sense, and is his current stated goal*. Two stabs at the ITT worlds (this year and next) with that as a focus, then track focus to Rio.

Then a life of boozing ahead of him. (Not belittling him, I do think he is going to have to confront his drinking demons one day. I'd rather see him clean up than be another George Best)

*though to be fair Wiggos stated goals change on a weekly basis.

 

[ToreBear]

Schleck (Tour de France winner!)
Evans
Gilbert
Hushovd
Sastre (2010-2011)

Although sometimes it may be hard to separate those who given up for this reason and those whose best results were achieved unsustainably.

He was sick. He started building his fitness slowly again in august 2012. His first training was going hunting for moose.

As in walking in the forest, carrying a gun and shooting. Just looking at results are often misleading.

He seems to be on the mend as his results this summer indicate.