Pulling a Wiggins

[martinvickers]

Prologue in 2006 over 7km he came 16th
2007 he came 4th over 7.8km

2006 First TT over 52km he came 28th, 2m 50secs down
Second TT in 2006 he came 56th and 7m 35secs down

2007 first TT he came 5th 2m 14 secs down

Paris Nice Prologue of 2006 he came 7th

Dauphine Prologue of 2006 he came 21st
Dauphine TT over 43km he came 37 over 3 and a half minutes down

2008 Giro first TT he came 157th 8 and a half mins down....I assume he crashed or was sick in the interests of fairness.

2009 Giro he came 7th at two mins down over 60km


For a good Time trialist, who was always supposedly top class at the event, it's amazing how he only began seeing consistently really high end TT results when he lost weight, became a much better climber, beyond all recognition, increased power (nobody seems to know how this is possible)...



Note: he did win the Dauphine Prologue of 2007

Of course he could never be the rider Boyer is alluding to with the aicar

It's rather bizarre that you wish to ignore his results in high profile GT TT's and the World Champs TT, and yet in the same year place such reliance on the week long races, as if he would be peaking for those...

One might ALMOST think you're trying to cherry pick, and not awfully well, to match your original bias.

 

[sniper]

...
Of course he could never be the rider Boyer is alluding to with the aicar

my french is limited, but are you sure boyer was singling out one rider?
What i heard (and I could have heard wrong) was Boyer making a more general observation about cofidis riders (plural) becoming rather skinny without loosing power and that to him that seemed impossible without doping.
do correct me if i heard wrong. (or perhaps you're referring to an interview i haven't seen/read?)

 

[Digger]

my french is limited, but are you sure boyer was singling out one rider?
What i heard (and I could have heard wrong) was Boyer making a more general observation about cofidis riders (plural) becoming rather skinny without loosing power and that to him that seemed impossible without doping.
do correct me if i heard wrong. (or perhaps you're referring to an interview i haven't seen/read?)

he was specific - didn't name a rider but did say a rider who won one day races, lost weight and went on to win stage races.

 

[the sceptic]

Define 'clean'

Lets make it simple. Anyone who hasnt tested positive or been linked to a doping doctor.

After you have figured that one out, perhaps you could enlighten us as to how you think a track pursuiter can become the best climber in the world in one year.

And please, stop nitpicking.

 

[Digger]

It's rather bizarre that you wish to ignore his results in high profile GT TT's and the World Champs TT, and yet in the same year place such reliance on the week long races, as if he would be peaking for those...

One might ALMOST think you're trying to cherry pick, and not awfully well, to match your original bias.

You are correct Martin - 7th in 2006 and 10th in 2007 in the Worlds were other notable results.

You seem to have this attitude that you can be as short and patronising as you like with posters but don't like it the other way. And that's not even just with me.
And looking back on your post from three pages...it's extremely hypocritical of you to say I cheery picked my results...

 

[Granville57]

that bloody sysmex machine...a hundred grand machine and it won't work properly.

I believe that in order for it to work "properly" you have to slide some money into the slot near the bottom.

 

[Digger]

Lets make it simple. Anyone who hasnt tested positive or been linked to a doping doctor.

After you have figured that one out, perhaps you could enlighten us as to how you think a track pursuiter can become the best climber in the world in one year.

And please, stop nitpicking.

And that's the thing - it wasn't even one year, as ridiculous as that would be...it was 6 weeks. Joke.

 

[sniper]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/photos/wiggins-values-point-to-cleaner-peloton/82092

cool thanks.
and pretty damning in combination with ashenden's quote.

 

[Justinr]

It's rather bizarre that you wish to ignore his results in high profile GT TT's and the World Champs TT, and yet in the same year place such reliance on the week long races, as if he would be peaking for those...

One might ALMOST think you're trying to cherry pick, and not awfully well, to match your original bias.

The 2007 TT the official stats are now 1 minute back since Vino's doped result has been taken out.

And why no time splits for the Prologues?

 

[Digger]

The 2007 TT the official stats are now 1 minute back since Vino's doped result has been taken out.

And why no time splits for the Prologues?

And why don't you address the other results? If you are going to just dismiss those two so readily...and you guys say I cherry pick....

 

[Justinr]

And why don't you address the other results? If you are going to just dismiss those two so readily...and you guys say I cherry pick....

I'm not dismissing them, just pointing out that Vino's time was struck off for that one.

Also curious why no splits for prologues or are you saying they are too short to be valid (and no I'm not goading, just curious).

 

[RownhamHill]

The 2007 TT the official stats are now 1 minute back since Vino's doped result has been taken out.

And why no time splits for the Prologues?

Good grief, a successful rider was doping in 2007? Who'd a thunk it. . .

 

[BYOP88]

Lets make it simple. Anyone who hasnt tested positive or been linked to a doping doctor.

After you have figured that one out, perhaps you could enlighten us as to how you think a track pursuiter can become the best climber in the world in one year.

And please, stop nitpicking.

The way the track banks up is pretty steep, perfect for getting climbing practice.

 

[Digger]

Good grief, a successful rider was doping in 2007? Who'd a thunk it. . .

Wait now - you can't have it both ways...that dopers were successful but then you can also beat dopers when it suits.

 

[Justinr]

Good grief, a successful rider was doping in 2007? Who'd a thunk it. . .

Actually on that one, and I'm sure it has been covered before, but was any connection made between Vino's blood and Kascheksky? ie were they the same blood group and possibly go their bags mixed up?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Oh rly?

January 07, 2005

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/co...2353391/Cycling-jester-takes-to-the-road.html

I want a like button for posts.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

friggin el friggin oh friggin el at all the people - including the ones insinuating they know track racing and noone else does, who, again, for at least the second if not the third time in this thread, think or write that track cyclists focusing on the track just ride around in circles all day, or somehow cannot do any good on the road, or train on the road, or compete on the road.

W.T.F.

Seriously!?

Or again, for the fourth time, claim Wiggo was a world-class (> prologue) TTer before 2009.

Sorry guys, but no. He wasn't. Nowhere near the podium.

 

[RownhamHill]

Wait now - you can't have it both ways...that dopers were successful but then you can also beat dopers when it suits.

I was making a joke.

But then again, I can have it anyway I want. You see I know that people were definitely doping in a really hardcore way in 2006 and 2007 - I know because I've read the affidavits/autobiographies. So to achieve top ten results in Grand Tour TT stages in that period would indicate one of two things:

- you were also doping
- you were clean and had some god given talent to compete with dopers

I don't know which is true of Bradley, I really don't. But if he was already doping (a definite possibility, given his performances) then how did he transform into the GC rider he became? Because 'starting to dope' can't be the answer, can it?

And if he was clean in 2007, how did he achieve those top ten results in the first place? And then wouldn't - as the blood passport was introduced, and times seemed to slow down, and things seemed to be cleanER - you expect his relative results to improve? In fact, in abstract terms, isn't that the very point of anti-doping efforts in the first place, to allow clean riders to achieve just results?

And as a default, even if the cleanER post blood passport suggestion is just a myth, and nothing at all has changed since 2007, and he was clean in 2007 and did start doping in 2009, and he still managed to beat a field that was as dirty as it ever had been in 2012 anyway, then what does it actually matter? Or are you suggesting that everyone else cleaned up, while he uniquely started doping?

 

[Digger]

Best post ever by the Hitch - few pages back but it needs to be brought out again...just think that six weeks before this picture, Wiggins finished 2hrs 20mins behind on GC in the Giro - which was actually an improvement on his other efforts in GT's.

So if we know he was concentrating on the road long before 2009, how did he improve so much?

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1433240&postcount=724

 

[Benotti69]

Best post ever by the Hitch - few pages back but it needs to be brought out again...just think that six weeks before this picture, Wiggins finished 2hrs 20mins behind on GC in the Giro - which was actually an improvement on his other efforts in GT's.

So if we know he was concentrating on the road long before 2009, how did he improve so much?

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1433240&postcount=724

I am sorry you dont believe in miracles.................

 

[Justinr]

friggin el friggin oh friggin el at all the people - including the ones insinuating they know track racing and noone else does, who, again, for at least the second if not the third time in this thread, think or write that track cyclists focusing on the track just ride around in circles all day, or somehow cannot do any good on the road, or train on the road, or compete on the road.

W.T.F.

Seriously!?

Or again, for the fourth time, claim Wiggo was a world-class (> prologue) TTer before 2009.

Sorry guys, but no. He wasn't. Nowhere near the podium.

Stage 13 2007 TDF : 4th - thats right, "Nowhere near the podium."

 

[roundabout]

Best post ever by the Hitch - few pages back but it needs to be brought out again...just think that six weeks before this picture, Wiggins finished 2hrs 20mins behind on GC in the Giro - which was actually an improvement on his other efforts in GT's.

So if we know he was concentrating on the road long before 2009, how did he improve so much?

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1433240&postcount=724

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider_palm.asp?riderid=936&year=2008&all=1&current=0

Similar buildup. Guess it's a garmin thing.

 

[The Hitch]

Keep watching. Wiggins around 29:50. The commentators are

lol pace was too slow for Wiggins

 

[martinvickers]

You are correct Martin - 7th in 2006 and 10th in 2007 in the Worlds were other notable results.

You seem to have this attitude that you can be as short and patronising as you like with posters but don't like it the other way. And that's not even just with me.
And looking back on your post from three pages...it's extremely hypocritical of you to say I cheery picked my results...

I didn't cherry pick, that's the point, so you're basic premise is wrong. I went to the most high profile TT's he would have been involved in. That's just common sense. Or are you saying a Dauphine Prologue is more important or notable than a TdF TT, or the Worlds?

If I come across as short, well, them's the breaks. I'm tranquilo with punchy banter.

But if I come across as patronising, that is not intended, and I'll apologise for that.

I think you've raised some good points, honestly. I just think you've raised some weak ones too. That's the point of the debate, is it not?

 

[Ferminal]

friggin el friggin oh friggin el at all the people - including the ones insinuating they know track racing and noone else does, who, again, for at least the second if not the third time in this thread, think or write that track cyclists focusing on the track just ride around in circles all day, or somehow cannot do any good on the road, or train on the road, or compete on the road.

W.T.F.

Seriously!?

Or again, for the fourth time, claim Wiggo was a world-class (> prologue) TTer before 2009.

Sorry guys, but no. He wasn't. Nowhere near the podium.

lol still waiting on my answer to McGee 2004...