Qui Tam, Baby

[ChewbaccaD]

Mine seems to be the only opinion consistent with the facts.

They don't know whether they can win.

So have left it down to the wire - with probable massive internal disagreement.

For all the blather - You have offered nothing else alternative.

Maybe they will try to file for an extension to allow them to hear lance speak first.

You never let the facts of anything influence your trolling before, why do you claim to have started now?

Now, please produce these "facts" you have that show the DoJ being hesitant because they are not sure of success. I think we would all like to see that.

 

[mountainrman]

but one person with the power to nullify that consensus would not budge.

You mean the guy whose name and reputation would be stuck to this if it fails did not want to play? That is how governments work Chewbacca. It is a game of musical chairs and pass the parcel. Nobody wants this parcel when the music stops, so it must be hot.

That means internally they cannot agree on it. That means it cannot be certain. I am guessing there are blazing rows between people like you who think it can, and others who are equally certain there are problems.

Armstrong no longer has political protection. Nobody will take his calls since september. So political pressure will no longer wash as any kind of explanation

The fact that they have not joined it with 24 hours to go, and have passed the parcel up the chain RADIATES indecision.

Political pressure may have been true till september. Certainly not an explanation since.

 

[RownhamHill]

And I keep telling you Chewbacca , just because something can be enforced legally , does not make it just. I am sure that Landis lawyers have done a good job of digging dirt to make a case.

These lawyers who leave their scruples at home are as much to blame as those that instruct them. They seem to get scruple bypass operations. Ask David Walsh why he apologised to Armstrong some years ago, and whether he thinks the law and justice had much in common. Armstrong traded on legal enforcers for years.

So Here is a serial liar and doper Landis, hoping to get rich out of being a pot calling a kettle blacker. Is that your idea of justice? It is not mine. If I had been Landis's lawyer I would have told him to take a running jump. Sad to say the rest of the legal profession would welcome him with open arms, seeing a paycheck.

Landis does not deserve to get rich out of this. He does not deserve Jail time either, and I am confident if you polled the benefactors to the floyd fairness fund the overwhelming majority would be p*ssed with him, but not want the fraud charge to happen either. A difference then between law and in that case what those who were damaged think is just.

USPS got what they paid for. The fact they are now insolvent is nothing to do with Lance, but their own bad management, and the current fiasco will have little or no effect on them. If they read the newspapers of the time they would know that the sport was endemically corrupt which they knew (or should have known) before they got involved - and that might make an interesting bunfight if Armstrongs lawyers try to prove it.

So if they manage to wriggle out by using fine print, it will be like most other contractual torts, aimed at getting the benefit of a contract then arguing in court to diminish liabilities. Get the goods without having to pay. Having the cake and eating it. It happens every day. The winner is the richest of the claimants who buries the other in paperwork. Armstrong modus operandi, till he challenges someone with deeper pockets than him. The DOJ. It may get them money back, it may make lawyers rich. It will not serve justice a jot.

There are far more deserving claimants to Armstrongs ill gotten gains than USPS who got what they paid for.

And you never have answered my mainlegal issue on this.

If it was such a surefire thing, why did they not fire it till the very last day?
The answer is because it is probably legally murky. Not nearly as clear cut as the clinic hopes.

And by the way, I don't claim to be king of china at 3. I am just what I say. A maths nerd till my late twenties, serial business owner since , till selling out and more or less retiring in late forties - not a rich guy but well enough off, and I dont value material things very much. I am a lifelong ultra running guy who got on a bike because of injuries. I am simply not stupid as most of your posts tried to claim, which is why I commented on the matter.


.

Right. So ignoring the 'fine print'. In your view if:

1. Someone knowingly fraudulently enters into a contract to honestly promote a brand, and receives $32 million for doing so.

2. They then provide 'promotion' by serially cheating and breaking the rules.

3. The brand gets some associated benefit for a couple of years, though over time this benefit depreciates as first rumours, and then proof of the level of fraud is revealed.

4. Finally the brand gets huge negative promotion as it has become thoroughly associated with a serial cheat by millions people read.

Then:

It is 'just' that the person who knowingly entered the fraudulent relationship, by explicitly lying and cheating, gets to keep the $32million, and the brand who were the victim of the deceit has no right to redress?

Is that right?

Because, from where I'm standing it looks like you have a fairly obscure conception of 'justice'.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

You mean the guy whose name and reputation would be stuck to this if it fails did not want to play? That is how governments work Chewbacca. It is a game of musical chairs and pass the parcel. Nobody wants this parcel when the music stops, so it must be hot.

That means internally they cannot agree on it. That means it cannot be certain.

Armstrong no longer has political protection. Nobody will take his calls since september. So political pressure will no longer wash.

It may have been true till september. Certainly not since.

Yea, because their failure to continue the criminal investigation and file charges did soooooo much for their "reputation." The political calculus here seems to be a bit over your head. I don't think you were a chess prodigy; you were really a "I quit peeing in my bed before I was 14" kind of guy, weren't you? No, failure to join the case with the evidence in the public sphere has far harsher reputational consequences than failing to win a slam-dunk case.

You keep trying to touch the ceiling junior. If you keep jumping, you just might get there one day.

 

[caryopsis]

So now we know why the government didn't join earlier: Political pressure. (we already knew that) One person stopped the government from joining Tuesday. Holder has the decision now. We'll see if the Justice Department is a department of justice.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i-team/landis-case-lance-wet-whistle-tune-90m-article-1.1241686

Manipulation of the process is par for the course, lets just hope this time that they are forced into actually performing their job.

RaceRadio and NYVelocity have already reported this on Twitter, but the NY Daily News link now goes to a 404 error page. maybe somebody didn't like the content?

if anyone finds a new link or saved the copy before it was removed, please re-post!

 

[mountainrman]

You offered no other explanation except "political pressure" which is a complete dead duck since he became a pariah late summer.

We will both have to wait to see what happens next.

They clearly do not agree internally, and are leaving it might close to the deadline and that speaks volumes to me.

There is only a couple of other candidates as far as I can see.
1./ they intend to file a different action, so could not care less about the deadline
2/ they are in late stage negotiation with LA and holding off to see if they can agree on it.
3/ They are already in front of a judge asking for a stay to allow them to listen to Oprah first.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

RaceRadio and NYVelocity have already reported this on Twitter, but the NY Daily News link now goes to a 404 error page. maybe somebody didn't like the content?

if anyone finds a new link or saved the copy before it was removed, please re-post!

I just clicked the link in my post, and it is live. What it doesn't say specifically is that the decision has been made to join.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

You offered no other explanation except "political pressure" which is a complete dead duck since he became a pariah late summer.

We will both have to wait to see what happens next.

They clearly do not agree internally, and are leaving it might close to the deadline and that speaks volumes to me.

There is only a couple of other candidates as far as I can see.
1./ they intend to file a different action, so could not care less about the deadline
2/ they are in late stage negotiation with LA and holding off to see if they can agree on it.
3/ They are already in front of a judge asking for a stay to allow them to listen to Oprah first.

All of those are wrong.

 

[mountainrman]

All of those are wrong. .

Possibly so - they are guesses.

And if so we are left with the obvious which I have said many times. They have left it so late because of indecision, which means they are not confident of winning and there is an argument internally.

You offered nothing else.
.
I am sure we will have an announcement soon.

 

[caryopsis]

I just clicked the link in my post, and it is live. What it doesn't say specifically is that the decision has been made to join.

Thanks, Chewbacca - glad to see it's back up!

 

[DirtyWorks]

RaceRadio and NYVelocity have already reported this on Twitter, but the NY Daily News link now goes to a 404 error page. maybe somebody didn't like the content?

if anyone finds a new link or saved the copy before it was removed, please re-post!

It's back up. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i-team/landis-case-lance-wet-whistle-tune-90m-article-1.1241686

-- A “conflict of interest and overlapping interests” between the owner of Armstrong’s teams, Thomas Weisel, and USA Cycling and the USA Cycling Foundation “that made it possible for the USPS team to carry on an extensive doping program.”

USACDF? Really? Gee, nothing funny going on there

At this point, a lifetime ban from sport for Wiesel is the *bare* minimum.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Possibly so - they are guesses.

And if so we are left with the obvious which I have said many times. They have left it so late because of indecision, which means they are not confident of winning and there is an argument internally.

You offered nothing else.
.
I am sure we will have an announcement soon.

No, most likely, Armstrong's attorneys are using their political connections to continue the process so that Wonderboy can beg his way into a settlement that the DoJ will accept. This isn't "late stage" negotiation. This is Armstrong finally seeing what anyone who is not blinded by his narcissistic personality disorder could already see, he is ****ed. He just started to beg and plead.

 

[Microchip]

Today's the day!

Last day for the Feds to join Floyd's lawsuit! Woo-hoo!

 

[mountainrman]

No, most likely, Armstrong's attorneys are using their political connections

Do you really think there is anyone left in politics willing to help him?
I doubt it. He is toxic now.

I read somewhere (Forbes?) that one option open to DoJ is to state to the court that they reserve the right to join the suit later on. - I thought it was more final than that.

 

[skidmark]

You are still looking at a legal issue - what were conditions and what were terms - and what fineprint DoJ can use to reclaim.

The bigger question is justice.
Landis is a liar and doper who is a pot hoping to get rich by calling a kettle black.
Is that your idea of justice? It is not mine.

Whoa, hold on. Landis is a FORMER liar and doper who has overturned the standard cycling omerta by being completely honest about all his activities in the past and advocating the value of truth in and of itself. If you believe he's being cynically manipulative in that expression, that's one thing, but if you take him at face value then, at least in my sense of 'justice', he should absolutely be held to a different standard than someone like Armstrong and those who are still lying, and it is totally just that he jumps on board the case.

Are you arguing that whistleblower lawsuits in themselves are 'unjust'? Because for people to come forward and blow the lid off something, they're always going to be people who toed the line and lied in the past.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Do you really think there is anyone left in politics willing to help him?
I doubt it. He is toxic now.

I read somewhere (Forbes?) that one option open to DoJ is to state to the court that they reserve the right to join the suit later on. - I thought it was more final than that.

Yes, there are. He and the others may have lost face, but they still have large bank accounts. Never underestimate the power of money. He may not be able to get off Scott free, but he can reduce the cost.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Last day for the Feds to join Floyd's lawsuit! Woo-hoo!

I am hearing that they are filing an extension to allow Wonderboy to continue to try to beg his way into a deal they will accept.

 

[Oldman]

It's back up. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i-team/landis-case-lance-wet-whistle-tune-90m-article-1.1241686

-- A “conflict of interest and overlapping interests” between the owner of Armstrong’s teams, Thomas Weisel, and USA Cycling and the USA Cycling Foundation “that made it possible for the USPS team to carry on an extensive doping program.”

USACDF? Really? Gee, nothing funny going on there

At this point, a lifetime ban from sport for Wiesel is the *bare* minimum.

...and Ochowicz confirming Weisel "managed" accounts for Hein! Now you have the opportunity to follow the money. My wife asked how the UCI guys would actually profit off of supporting Lance. My suggestion was that a bag of cash or the pin to a Cayman bank account is the usual laundering method. "They couldn't be stupid enough to have and auditable trail for the money"...apparently they could've been.
Again, Weisel's gotta be wondering now what he actually got out of the sport that he couldn't have recieved by rubbing one out each morning by himself.

 

[BroDeal]

So I see BPC has gone full genius again.

 

[mountainrman]

Whoa, hold on. Landis is a FORMER liar and doper who has overturned the standard cycling omerta by being completely honest about all his activities in the past and advocating the value of truth in and of itself. If you believe he's being cynically manipulative in that expression, that's one thing, but if you take him at face value then, at least in my sense of 'justice', he should absolutely be held to a different standard than someone like Armstrong and those who are still lying, and it is totally just that he jumps on board the case.

Are you arguing that whistleblower lawsuits in themselves are 'unjust'? Because for people to come forward and blow the lid off something, they're always going to be people who toed the line and lied in the past.

A true whistleblower is someone like the British born CEO of Japanese Olympus who on seeing the dodgy balance sheet, refused to get involved in it. And he sacrificed a $7figure package to out corruption and the truth.

Clearly others get involved in some dodgy stuff before pulling out. But a real whistleblower generally loses something by whistleblowing, mainly the job with the target of the whistleblowing..

So Landis is different.

I do not dislike the guy - and of the cast of this sorry saga, he is the one who I think deep down has some kind of conscience deeper than "sorry" means "sorry I got caught"

His approach to Tygart may have been driven by conscience,

But the Qui Tam is hard to construe except as a way to earn from the situation and as an act of vengeance. And in order to buy his way out of imminent jail time. You can blame Lance for a lot of things, but defrauding Floyd Fairness to get Landis a jail term is certainly not one of them!

Landis seems to be taking advantage of the fortune that nobody can use the same tactic against him to recover the money he clearly cheated from his own later sponsors the very same way, indeed he benefited from USPS! So it smacks of hypocrisy in his forcing lance to do the same.
.

 

[D-Queued]

What I said was a fair representation of what happened.

...

Why do you like Landis so much? Why do you blame Armstrong for Landis' downfall?

No, what you said was a complete lie with respect to the outcome.

And, Lance did not use his lawyers to badger LeMond in the Trek dispute. Lance did use his Lawyers, unethically, to represent Kik.

LeMond won the dispute with Trek. Period.

Why do I like Landis so much?

You are joking, right?

I will never, ever be on Floyd's Christmas Card list.

I was one of the strongest and most consistent detractors in the Floyd Forum over on Daily Peloton Forums, and consistently took both Floyd and Wil on directly questioning virtually every lie. The facts that I provided are one of the very few counter-points that were published on the Floyd promoting Trustbut website.

My zeal was such that I was a constant focus of Floyd fanboys, and there was a concerted effort to discover and reveal my identity.

I also spent considerable time detailing and documenting the lies promoted by FFF.

My criticism was not confined solely to facts. I was arguably derisive as well, having come up with at least 100 different cynical versions of the Floyd Fools Friends initiative.

But, whether I am a 4 sigma Mensa qualifier or not, I am able to learn new things and re-assess my position based upon new facts.

Floyd does have my support in his Qui Tam lawsuit. I sent him a note on that, but have never received a reply and don't ever expect to receive one.

Dave.

 

[reginagold]

Summary of the Qui Tam situation from Forbes Magazine's whistleblower reporter today.

Says words on Oprah show will have "zero" impact on the progress of the Qui Tam suit and goes on to describe the various steps in the legal process.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikake...-against-lance-armstrong-what-to-expect-next/

 

[Dr. Maserati]

A true whistleblower is someone like the British born CEO of Japanese Olympus who on seeing the dodgy balance sheet, refused to get involved in it. And he sacrificed a $7figure package to out corruption and the truth.

Clearly others get involved in some dodgy stuff before pulling out. But a real whistleblower generally loses something by whistleblowing, mainly the job with the target of the whistleblowing..

So Landis is different.

I do not dislike the guy - and of the cast of this sorry saga, he is the one who I think deep down has some kind of conscience deeper than "sorry" means "sorry I got caught"

His approach to Tygart may have been driven by conscience,

But the Qui Tam is hard to construe except as a way to earn from the situation and as an act of vengeance. And in order to buy his way out of imminent jail time. You can blame Lance for a lot of things, but defrauding Floyd Fairness to get Landis a jail term is certainly not one of them!

Landis seems to be taking advantage of the fortune that nobody can use the same tactic against him to recover the money he clearly cheated from his own later sponsors the very same way, indeed he benefited from USPS! So it smacks of hypocrisy in his forcing lance to do the same.
.

The CEO of Japanese Olympus, eh?

Fearing for his life, Woodford contacted Financial Time reporter, Jonathan Soble and gave a 12 hour interview that fully disclosed everything he knew.

Such a pity, as your portrayal made it a lot more noble.

 

[formerlyfastfreddyp]

Summary of the Qui Tam situation from Forbes Magazine's whistleblower reporter today.

Says words on Oprah show will have "zero" impact on the progress of the Qui Tam suit and goes on to describe the various steps in the legal process.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikake...-against-lance-armstrong-what-to-expect-next/

I hope I'm wrong, but the publication of the details of the lawsuit might be a bad sign for anyone hoping that the DOJ was going to go after OneNut & Co.

 

[BroDeal]

I hope I'm wrong, but the publication of the details of the lawsuit might be a bad sign for anyone hoping that the DOJ was going to go after OneNut & Co.

I am not too hopeful either. Holden is completely incompetent. It is too much to expect any sort of justice from the DOJ as long as he heads it.

I can easily see those clowns turning down $5M and then not joining.