Quickstep sponsored by spam

[LugHugger]

I can still get SR shifters for less at a few bike shops in Portland than what Ribble is selling Red shifters for. That's amazing to me.

edit: Dura Ace prices @ retail are even more stupid. So I'm not picking on SRAM here.

Well........Ribble have SR shifters at £239 at the moment!!!!! That's an amazing deal in comparison with Red and DA. Admittedly, that's only one part of a groupset but for Red and DA to be 30%+ more expensive than SR is surprising to me.

 

[Fenceline]

I have reconditioned a number of these hubs. The problem is that the plastic bush runs on an anodised aluminium surface. When the anodising wears out the aluminium underneath then wears rapidly and contaminates the oil in a self perpetuating cycle. Generally the bush shows little wear. A steel sleeve on the hub stops the wear, and the freewheel is much more reliable.
The main question for mavic is why are replacement rims and spokes so expensive?

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Checked on our production manager regarding our annual Sram warranties.

Big fat 0!

That's with an annual production level of upwards of 2500 bikes a year. So from more than 500 bikes equipped with Sram, not a dickie bird.

I rest my case.

Sigh, fine and dandy, yep, I lying about what I have warrantied..you have fun with red frogs and such and enjoy riding your spam bike...I think you ought to turn in your Campag stuff, I don't think you rate it.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Checked on our production manager regarding our annual Sram warranties.

Big fat 0!

That's with an annual production level of upwards of 2500 bikes a year. So from more than 500 bikes equipped with Sram, not a dickie bird.

I rest my case.

I was at 11 shops today, more than half had ScRAM Equipped bikes on the floor. I asked each service manager what they thought of their groups, 7 basically said that if it was up to them they wouldn't touch the stuff, but understand that they took over as the kings of OEM and just deal with it. 2 said they only really sell ScRAM to people new to road cycling, most of their experienced riders are all on Campy and Shimano. 2 were ScRAM fanatics such as yourself, but those were chain stores with nothing but big brands Wrek, Giant poop, Specialneeds, Cannonfail. Funny bit is that I was in the bike industry when many of the employees at these hideous chain stores weren't even in grammar school yet, they don't know anything else but what's fed to them on the daily, kind of like young Hitler Youth.

That's 11 shops, you are 1.

I rest my case.

 

[ultimobici]

Sigh, fine and dandy, yep, I lying about what I have warrantied..you have fun with red frogs and such and enjoy riding your spam bike...I think you ought to turn in your Campag stuff, I don't think you rate it.

I don't doubt your experience. But overall SRAM is no less reliable than Shimano or Campagnolo.

As for riding SRAM myself, I only have Campagnolo 11.

 

[ultimobici]

I was at 11 shops today, more than half had ScRAM Equipped bikes on the floor. I asked each service manager what they thought of their groups, 7 basically said that if it was up to them they wouldn't touch the stuff, but understand that they took over as the kings of OEM and just deal with it. 2 said they only really sell ScRAM to people new to road cycling, most of their experienced riders are all on Campy and Shimano. 2 were ScRAM fanatics such as yourself, but those were chain stores with nothing but big brands Wrek, Giant poop, Specialneeds, Cannonfail. Funny bit is that I was in the bike industry when many of the employees at these hideous chain stores weren't even in grammar school yet, they don't know anything else but what's fed to them on the daily, kind of like young Hitler Youth.

That's 11 shops, you are 1.

I rest my case.

SRAM fanatic???

I ride Campagnolo and have done for the last 2 years.

In 20 years in the industry I've seen all sorts of garbage. SRAM is not any better or worse than Shimano or Campagnolo.

Go into any number of shops and you'll find varying opinions on all manner of kit. That's all they are, opinions. I can only base my opinion on how often I have problems I have to sort out. SRAM
, in my experience is tied with Campagnolo BEHIND Shimano in terms of warranty claims. That's not ones I've thought were warranty but where the customer was claiming a warranty.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

SRAM fanatic???

I ride Campagnolo and have done for the last 2 years.

In 20 years in the industry I've seen all sorts of garbage. SRAM is not any better or worse than Shimano or Campagnolo.

Go into any number of shops and you'll find varying opinions on all manner of kit. That's all they are, opinions. I can only base my opinion on how often I have problems I have to sort out. SRAM
, in my experience is tied with Campagnolo BEHIND Shimano in terms of warranty claims. That's not ones I've thought were warranty but where the customer was claiming a warranty.

Sure, we're about the same tenure, but I feel ScRAM road goups are 3rd in line behind it's competition as far as performance goes, but not a close 3rd, a very distant one.

I have about 20 more shops to see before the week is over, the majority of which are very road centric, and they have a much stronger negative opinion of ScRAM than the shops I saw today. You won't be happy with the opinions I post, even more so than any of us ScRAM haters have posted here so far. They have vastly different perspective compared to your experience with the brand. Just sayin'.

 

[ultimobici]

Sure, we're about the same tenure, but I feel ScRAM road goups are 3rd in line behind it's competition as far as performance goes, but not a close 3rd, a very distant one.

I have about 20 more shops to see before the week is over, the majority of which are very road centric, and they have a much stronger negative opinion of ScRAM than the shops I saw today. You won't be happy with the opinions I post, even more so than any of us ScRAM haters have posted here so far. They have vastly different perspective compared to your experience with the brand. Just sayin'.

Rather than ask them about what they feel, ask them what the actual volume of warranty returns is like across the brands. That is a fairer indicator than what a guy on the shopfloor thinks. If I polled our sales staff I'd get a split between Shimano, Sram & Campag pretty much in line with what they ride. If I ask the mechanics, the head mechanic will say Campagnolo primarily because he's Italian! The rest are pretty much all Campag bar one who's into Rohloff and is therefore beyond help.

I'd agree that a higher proportion of customers buying Sram equipped bikes will be newcomers. This is likely a function of what the likes of Specialized, Trek & Giant etc spec on their entry to mid level bikes. On the other hand I find a lot of more experienced riders are opting for Sram simply because you get more bang for buck than Campag or Shimano. 2012 Force is lighter than Ultegra and Chorus for less and gives Dura Ace a run for its money on weight too.

But for me, now that Campag have finally changed their levers to fit me, I'll stick with SR11 until EPS arrives.......

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Rather than ask them about what they feel, ask them what the actual volume of warranty returns is like across the brands. That is a fairer indicator than what a guy on the shopfloor thinks. If I polled our sales staff I'd get a split between Shimano, Sram & Campag pretty much in line with what they ride. If I ask the mechanics, the head mechanic will say Campagnolo primarily because he's Italian! The rest are pretty much all Campag bar one who's into Rohloff and is therefore beyond help.

I'd agree that a higher proportion of customers buying Sram equipped bikes will be newcomers. This is likely a function of what the likes of Specialized, Trek & Giant etc spec on their entry to mid level bikes. On the other hand I find a lot of more experienced riders are opting for Sram simply because you get more bang for buck than Campag or Shimano. 2012 Force is lighter than Ultegra and Chorus for less and gives Dura Ace a run for its money on weight too.

But for me, now that Campag have finally changed their levers to fit me, I'll stick with SR11 until EPS arrives.......

I'm sorry Ultimo, you reside in a Bizarro world of bike shops. I've don't know any shop here on the Front Range that has had zero ScRAM warranties in the past year. That's crazy talk.

Don't get me started on weight now. The difference in weight from group to group makes about as much impact as aerodynamics from RR frame to frame. Means nothing.

 

[ultimobici]

I'm sorry Ultimo, you reside in a Bizarro world of bike shops. I've don't know any shop here on the Front Range that has had zero ScRAM warranties in the past year. That's crazy talk.

I'm not kidding. Not one failure. There were issues with the first batch of Red callipers and I have seen some failures with Rival shifters. But that's it. Maybe we're lucky here in London, who knows?

Don't get me started on weight now. The difference in weight from group to group makes about as much impact as aerodynamics from RR frame to frame. Means nothing.

Try telling the punters that. They read the reviews and see the claimed weights and they think that it'll cure all their shortcomings in training. Then they spec a compact & 11-28 to ride the surrey "hills", claiming that they need the gearing! I have 2 plates & 10 pins in my right ankle and can ride them comfortably on 28x25 FFS!

 

[Parera]

I'm calling shenanigans here on zero warranty issues with SRAM. I live in a small town, and my shop of choice is very small and there always SRAM equipped bikes in the shop needing serious work/warranty replacement because the mountain stuff is pure, unfiltered crap.

 

[ultimobici]

I'm calling shenanigans here on zero warranty issues with SRAM. I live in a small town, and my shop of choice is very small and there always SRAM equipped bikes in the shop needing serious work/warranty replacement because the mountain stuff is pure, unfiltered crap.

Hand on heart, zero. But we only deal with road.
Perhaps they never ride their bikes?

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I'm not kidding. Not one failure. There were issues with the first batch of Red callipers and I have seen some failures with Rival shifters. But that's it. Maybe we're lucky here in London, who knows?

Try telling the punters that. They read the reviews and see the claimed weights and they think that it'll cure all their shortcomings in training. Then they spec a compact & 11-28 to ride the surrey "hills", claiming that they need the gearing! I have 2 plates & 10 pins in my right ankle and can ride them comfortably on 28x25 FFS!

My nuts are titanium! Oof that's rough, know a lot of Steve Austins in Colorado. This place is hard on the body, and equipment. Well Ultimo it's up to us to let the punters know that saving 100 grams isn't going to make them faster, not even a placebo effect. Laying off the fish & chips will gain you more performance advantage than spending a dime on any gear. You know.

 

[ultimobici]

My nuts are titanium! Oof that's rough, know a lot of Steve Austins in Colorado. This place is hard on the body, and equipment. Well Ultimo it's up to us to let the punters know that saving 100 grams isn't going to make them faster, not even a placebo effect. Laying off the fish & chips will gain you more performance advantage than spending a dime on any gear. You know.

When I broke the ankle I had two operations a couple of days apart.

After the first the consultant came round and asked if I had any questions. So I asked that the plate was made from. "Titanium, is that OK?" he replied. Two days later the same thing happened but the answer was "Surgical steel, but I can change it if you want!" I declined.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

When I broke the ankle I had two operations a couple of days apart.

After the first the consultant came round and asked if I had any questions. So I asked that the plate was made from. "Titanium, is that OK?" he replied. Two days later the same thing happened but the answer was "Surgical steel, but I can change it if you want!" I declined.

So you really did choose Campy over ScRAM. Good on ya!

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I didn't have good experiences with Sram mountain stuff. I switched back to XTR. Love it.

Supposedly Sram have improved their mountain stuff, but my LBS isn't all that impressed with their hydraulic brakes.

 

[Race Radio]

Funny letter to the Nick

SRAM Red shifters, Red front/rear derailleur ......the front shifting, going from the little to the big ring, is very inconsistent; one time spot on and the next time it will struggle. From time to time I will have chain drop or chain suck. My LBS has re-cabled the front derailleur and tried to make some adjustments but nothing consistently improves the performance.

Nick suggests some $65 Gore cables and admits

SRAM’s Red titanium front derailleur has issues with cage flex

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...k-nick/ask-nick-whats-in-nicks-toolbox_203140

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

The coolest things ScRAM has ever built.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Funny letter to the Nick

Nick suggests some $65 Gore cables and admits

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...k-nick/ask-nick-whats-in-nicks-toolbox_203140

I have had the exact same experience with the cables. As I mentioned though, I went with the Yokozuna Reaction cables. Excellent shifting since then.

 

[ultimobici]

So you really did choose Campy over ScRAM. Good on ya!

Not then. I was 7700 all the way. Could never really get on with the original Ergos or the 9 speed shape either for that matter.

When 7800 came out I hated the lever shape to the extent that I ran the 7700 into the ground waiting for Sram Force to become available. When the BMC rep lent me his SR11 bike I knew I was doomed to spend a lot of money converting over. 3 pairs of 7403 hubbed wheels became redundant overnight.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I was at 11 shops today, more than half had ScRAM Equipped bikes on the floor. I asked each service manager what they thought of their groups, 7 basically said that if it was up to them they wouldn't touch the stuff, but understand that they took over as the kings of OEM and just deal with it. 2 said they only really sell ScRAM to people new to road cycling, most of their experienced riders are all on Campy and Shimano. 2 were ScRAM fanatics such as yourself, but those were chain stores with nothing but big brands Wrek, Giant poop, Specialneeds, Cannonfail. Funny bit is that I was in the bike industry when many of the employees at these hideous chain stores weren't even in grammar school yet, they don't know anything else but what's fed to them on the daily, kind of like young Hitler Youth.

That's 11 shops, you are 1.

I rest my case.

Yep, he seems to be in one of a kind shop in London, with all sorts of spam stuff being sold w/o any warranties. Maybe it's against the law to complain about crappy stuff in the UK.

I have talked to more than one person from bike stuff distributors and their opinion of sram is the same as RDV and the majority of bike shop service guys here as well...most really don't like it because in the long and short run, it costs them money. 'Warranty', at the bike shop or distributor level, isn't 'free'.

I suspect the gent in London is from a 'bike village', type superstore, just a small slice above walmart and costco in terms of bike stuff. These customers buy something and then either ride a lot or not at all. If they are number 1 above, they find a better, smaller shop that actually knows how this stuff works. And how to warranty a sram lever. I had a gent from said superstore, with a specialized, broken sram lever, and they wanted to send the entire bike back for warranty. yikes, I got a lever in about 4 days, put it on(not for free) and off he went. sram didn't even ask what happened, they just asked for my acct number, right or left lever, and into the mail it went.

But I'm making this up, aren't I?

 

[ultimobici]

Yep, he seems to be in one of a kind shop in London, with all sorts of spam stuff being sold w/o any warranties. Maybe it's against the law to complain about crappy stuff in the UK.

I have talked to more than one person from bike stuff distributors and their opinion of sram is the same as RDV and the majority of bike shop service guys here as well...most really don't like it because in the long and short run, it costs them money. 'Warranty', at the bike shop or distributor level, isn't 'free'.

I suspect the gent in London is from a 'bike village', type superstore, just a small slice above walmart and costco in terms of bike stuff. These customers buy something and then either ride a lot or not at all. If they are number 1 above, they find a better, smaller shop that actually knows how this stuff works. And how to warranty a sram lever. I had a gent from said superstore, with a specialized, broken sram lever, and they wanted to send the entire bike back for warranty. yikes, I got a lever in about 4 days, put it on(not for free) and off he went. sram didn't even ask what happened, they just asked for my acct number, right or left lever, and into the mail it went.

But I'm making this up, aren't I?

Nope. Head mechanic at the largest independent shop in London until I moved to a large independent manufacturer. You do the maths. I am not pulling your leg when I recount what I personally have experienced.

People definitely complain in the UK. But despite working for a Cannondale/Trek dealer we had no warranty claims on Sram Apex, Rival, Force or Red. A few 5600 levers and virtually every FSA BB30 bearing set.

Maybe we're lucky here with product or perhaps our customer base is more mechanically sympathetic so don't kill parts. Who knows?

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

virtually every FSA BB30 bearing set.

I keep hearing this as well from my local shop. The BB30 stuff seems more high-maintenance. They are certainly not fans of any FSA cranks at all.

 

[ultimobici]

I keep hearing this as well from my local shop. The BB30 stuff seems more high-maintenance. They are certainly not fans of any FSA cranks at all.

Generally referred to as F***ing S*** Accessories!

 

[Benotti69]

Garmin are ScRaming it this year too! I thought they had gone back to dura ace?