Quinn Simmons is the new Quinn Simmons

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Chris Gadsden

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Why not? Of course Simmons acts (again) quite cocky here, but telling another rider in a private message that he thinks the other one "is not good enough" is bad manners and questionable style, but not more. It adds to painting a picture of Simmons' personality, though.
Let's also not forget Williams was accusing the selection/coaching/coach as not selecting him because of his skin color. If Williams was correct then that's despicable by the coach. If he was wrong then it was despicable by Williams.
 
Yellow is also racist.
Cute, but I’m trying to have a serious conversation.

I don't buy the racist angle here. Trek caved to an onslaught of social media attention rolling in because of a stance we can't discuss. The black waving hand would never have been on anybody's radar if it were some run-of-the-mill post.

Trek caved from pressure applied by those who have a hardcore agenda.
Both things can be true. It was clearly racist, and I doubt the denial is fooling anyone. Plenty of people see it for what it is. Trek certainly was responding to social media pressure. Bad media exposure for the team is bad media exposure.
 
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As I said, the tweet was deemed to be racism, and reasonable people can debate that. The point, if you’re following, was to refute the idea that he was fired for supporting a political candidate.

Regarding the tweet, I personally don’t see why a white kid would be using a black fist icon. I know what it means and I don’t buy for one second it was an accident. You have to select the alternate color from a menu off the yellow hand.
An immature teenager who seemingly likes to be blunt, confrontational and provocative. Not exactly an uncommon species.

I don't see any hate or malice in that. Dumb and divisive (made worse in the current climate that both feeds polarizing messages and escalates sh!tstorms), but there's a step from that to racism (not saying that it cannot be that, only that it is not necessarily so).
 
An immature teenager who seemingly likes to be blunt, confrontational and provocative. Not exactly an uncommon species.

I don't see any hate or malice in that. Dumb and divisive (made worse in the current climate that both feeds polarizing messages and escalates sh!tstorms), but there's a step from that to racism (not saying that it cannot be that, only that it is not necessarily so).
There is of course truth in what you say about teenagers, but your comments pointedly ignore his use of “blackface” in the tweet in question.
 

Chris Gadsden

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I don't see any hate or malice in that. Dumb and divisive (made worse in the current climate that both feeds polarizing messages and escalates sh!tstorms), but there's a step from that to racism (not saying that it cannot be that, only that it is not necessarily so).
Unless those calling out racism know what's in the kids heart then the default position should be to ask him and not assume you know. He apologized for offending anybody and denounced racism of all forms. That should have been the end of it ... but it's not because a vocal minority are out for his scalp.

Make no mistake, there is hatred and malice going on here. It's just not necessarily coming from QS.
 
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Chris Gadsden

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I’m not going to debate you about the default color of emojis. I didn’t think you were serious, and I can’t actually get my head around the idea that you are.
Ok, so if the default color Apple chose was black then everything would be cool.

And the point missed is.... if you or anybody else is starting everyday looking for racism/racist symbols then you will find them. Your declaration of "it was clearly racist" is an excellent example of what is found if one goes looking for it. There's nothing clear about it.
 

Chris Gadsden

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It’s entirely in bad faith and you are quite right not to respond. In fact introducing the idea that the use of default “yellow” emojis is racist towards Asian people, for the sole purpose of drawing a false equivalence, is itself the deployment of a racist trope..

It's not false equivalence. It's to point out anything can be considered racist if that's what you want it to be.

If your position is Asians in the US haven't suffered from racism then I'd say you don't have a good grasp on the subject.
 
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Unless those calling out racism know what's in the kids heart then the default position should be to ask him and not assume you know. He apologized for offending anybody and denounced racism of all forms. That should have been the end of it ... but it's not because a vocal minority are out for his scalp.

Make no mistake, there is hatred and malice going on here. It's just not coming from QS.
Actually, in the U.S. the default position should be an assumption that some racist element exists—Because Americans are infused with different degrees of racism like a rest-day blood bag, and only after some serious self-discernment can a member of the group/class with the most power have confidence they are cleanz. I know I have some degree of racism lying in less visited recesses of my brain that I haven’t dealt with as yet. That’s why it’s wise not to go there (e.g. making jokes or commentary associated with racial differences), . . . unless one intends to be a provocateur.
 
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Chris Gadsden

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Oct 28, 2019
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Actually, in the U.S. the default position should be an assumption that some racist element exists—Because Americans are infused with different degrees of racism like a rest-day blood bag, and only after some serious self-discernment can a member of the group/class with the most power have confidence they are cleanz. I know I have some degree of racism lying in less visited recesses of my brain that I haven’t dealt with as yet. That’s why it’s wise not to go there (e.g. making jokes or commentary associated with racial differences), . . . unless one intends to be a provocateur.
If you mean each of us has bias... then yeah. That's probably true.

And brash 19 year-olds will be brash 19 year-olds.
 
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Chris Gadsden

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You think that you are being clever, but you are just glib
Deny it as a historical racial slur all you like. Whatever fits in you logic box is what you really should concentrate on.

I have no intention of humouring your desire to start a political argument about the supposed persecution of Trump followers.
I'm well aware of the rules here. We can't discuss this thread's elephant in the room.
 
Most definitely. However, saying you support a certain candidate in an election could hardly be seen as detrimental to the team or league. If it is then the world is going to a horrible place and basic constitutional rights are at risk. Hence my surprise. Hopefully this entire thing blows over and both the team and the rider are able to safe face with this. Not the kind of publicity that cycling needs
What world constitution?
 
In all seriousness, it doesn't really matter what was in QS's heart. His employers and/or sponsors feel his actions on social media hurt their image. Simple as that. Maybe he meant something benign in both the Bean and Williams interactions but expressed it poorly. Maybe he can learn that PR is important. Or maybe he just isn't smart enough.
 

Chris Gadsden

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I’m not denying that calling Asian people yellow has been done by many racists. I’m pointing out that you, in common with those racists, are doing that here. And you’ve introduced that racist idea to the discussion purely for the purposes of a bad faith attempt to minimise another form of racism.
No actually. I'm saying you have convicted this kid based on your backwards worldview. I'm saying if you are so hard up to attach racist motives to anything/everything you see, hear and read then you will have very little problem in your own mind doing so. Really, there should be a published manual out there based on the millions of ways each of us might be offended. Because, God knows, a one word reply tweet by a white guy using a black hand waving emoji to a white woman in a different Country is truly unspeakable.

Not everything is racist or is motivated by racism. Although I'm quite sure you will argue that to the death.
 

Chris Gadsden

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Oct 28, 2019
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In all seriousness, it doesn't really matter what was in QS's heart. His employers and/or sponsors feel his actions on social media hurt their image. Simple as that. Maybe he meant something benign in both the Bean and Williams interactions but expressed it poorly. Maybe he can learn that PR is important. Or maybe he just isn't smart enough.

Post of the day.

With that I'll show myself out.
 
I’m not denying that calling Asian people yellow has been done by many racists. I’m pointing out that you, in common with those racists, are doing that here. And you’ve introduced that racist idea to the discussion purely for the purposes of a bad faith attempt to minimise another form of racism.



Yet you keep trying to turn the discussion back into a political argument.
ZL, I put flat earth on ignore this summer because everything is intentionally fake with a twist of thread wrecking. There are/have been bigger dirt bags on here, but I used my first ignore on this silly nugget.
 
That was my guess too - that the suspension wasn’t just about that twitter interaction but reflected some combination of him getting into social media rows previously and/or not handling being told to stop by the team well. As against that though, he has apparently accepted being ordered to do media training and he hasn’t piped up denouncing the team or trying to make himself a free speech martyr, so at the very least the disagreement doesn’t seem to have escalated.
He's even gone as far as to say something along the lines of being part of the Trek team is a dream come true.

I was a bone headed teenager (from 14-23ish) so I sorta get it, but...
 
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He's even gone as far as to say something along the lines of being part of the Trek team is a dream come true.

I was a bone headed teenager (from 14-23ish) so I sorta get it, but...
If we all brought our old students' union debating society politics out onto a stage as public as a World Tour cyclist's twitter page, a lot of us would get into a lot of not-unreasonable trouble with, well, someone.

It sounds like someone at Trek Corp has had a word, to have a word (or maybe even had a word directly) in his ear. You can only hope there's enough matter the other side of that ear to absorb and process the word long-term, and grow up to actually not be the kind of person that a lot of people now appear to assume him to be.
 
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Chris Gadsden

BANNED
Oct 28, 2019
131
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ZL, I put flat earth on ignore this summer because everything is intentionally fake with a twist of thread wrecking. There are/have been bigger dirt bags on here, but I used my first ignore on this silly nugget.
You mean like posting off-topic garbage while simultaneously disparaging another forum member?

I will never understand why discussing differences of opinions - and that’s all they are - is so dangerous for some of you.

  1. Quinn is young and definitely needs guidance/maturity.
  2. It wasn’t a good idea to put out any sort of controversy out on social media.
  3. Trek has every right to protect their brand.
  4. If protecting their brand means a suspension or termination then Trek has the absolute right to do that.
  5. Trek can bow/cater to any voice at any time. Their prerogative.
  6. Percieved racism by some does not necessarily mean racism was done or the kid is a racist.
  7. I don’t know what’s so controversial about points 1 - 6.
Now, I really am out of this thread.
 
In all seriousness, it doesn't really matter what was in QS's heart. His employers and/or sponsors feel his actions on social media hurt their image. Simple as that. Maybe he meant something benign in both the Bean and Williams interactions but expressed it poorly. Maybe he can learn that PR is important. Or maybe he just isn't smart enough.
Well put. The NFL, NBA spends some time on rookie orientation or expect the players' agents to do that. It's part of your contract to not say anything to damage the brand. Even LeBron, Brady, the William's Sisters all seem to respect the edges of their celebrity. They probably all had some miscues on a "message" occasionally.
Is there anyone currently riding that could get away with dissing a sponsor?
 

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