Quintana??

[Ataraxus]

Re:

not much change from 2015 to 2018 in terms of how the peloton ride the problem is nairo preparation and doping program that seems not effective
yesterday he was 3 minutes slower than 2015

Or he's past his prime now (i.e. 35-36 Years old) and three years ago he was at his peak age.

 

[telencefalus]

Re: Re:

not much change from 2015 to 2018 in terms of how the peloton ride the problem is nairo preparation and doping program that seems not effective
yesterday he was 3 minutes slower than 2015

Or he's past his prime now (i.e. 35-36 Years old) and three years ago he was at his peak age.

he past his prime only if he is not 28 but he is 34 :lol:

 

[Ataraxus]

Re: Re:

not much change from 2015 to 2018 in terms of how the peloton ride the problem is nairo preparation and doping program that seems not effective
yesterday he was 3 minutes slower than 2015

Or he's past his prime now (i.e. 35-36 Years old) and three years ago he was at his peak age.

he past his prime only if he is not 28 but he is 34 :lol:

This thread was revived by my comment (some hours ago).
Its last comment was in July 2017 until today.
Read that comment, have a look at the picture in the link and don't make hasty jokes.

https://roadbikeaction.com/movistar-trio-quintana-landa-valverde-in-for-tdf/

No way Landa can be older than Nairo. Even Bala looks younger than him.

 

[telencefalus]

so you think quintana is a mid 30 guy instead of a 28 years old? i don't think so but your doubt could only be solved by the doctors that see nairo born

 

[Ataraxus]

Re:

so you think quintana is a mid 30 guy instead of a 28 years old? i don't think so but your doubt could only be solved by the doctors that see nairo born

It's a hard to prove speculation.
But so are the majority of the speculations in the clinic right

Based on what we see from Thomas/ Froome/Dumoulin etc. we can speculate about their doping programs.
In this case I see Nairo's face and his results that don't have the trajectory of a 28 year old pro cyclist.

 

[hrotha]

This is at about the same level as saying that all Asians look the same so some Chinese rider is actually several people taking turns.

 

[zlev11]

yeah it can't be that the 8 flat stages plus 15 sectors of cobblestones didn't just take a lot of energy out of him, it must be that he's lying about his age by six years.

he looks exactly 28 years old to me.

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

He definitely looks 3 years younger than Uran

 

[Ataraxus]

Re:

yeah it can't be that the 8 flat stages plus 15 sectors of cobblestones didn't just take a lot of energy out of him, it must be that he's lying about his age by six years.

he looks exactly 28 years old to me.

Tour 2015 had 8 flat stages and cobbles.
Check PSM and Cauterets and Plateau de Beille results.

P.S. Nobody's saying that age doping MUST be the option. It is being discussed that it MIGHT be an option.
Get your facts straight and increase the level of argumentation for us to find it enjoyable as well.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

not much change from 2015 to 2018 in terms of how the peloton ride the problem is nairo preparation and doping program that seems not effective
yesterday he was 3 minutes slower than 2015

Or he's past his prime now (i.e. 35-36 Years old) and three years ago he was at his peak age.

...or it could be that he peaked early as some professionals do. It doesn't have to be some underhanded reason for the decline in his performance. Hey, maybe it's some virus that has yet to be diagnosed/discovered that is compromising his ability to reach the heights of his earlier professional career.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

so you think quintana is a mid 30 guy instead of a 28 years old? i don't think so but your doubt could only be solved by the doctors that see nairo born

It's a hard to prove speculation.
But so are the majority of the speculations in the clinic right

Based on what we see from Thomas/ Froome/Dumoulin etc. we can speculate about their doping programs.
In this case I see Nairo's face and his results that don't have the trajectory of a 28 year old pro cyclist.

I really don't see anything in his face that make me believe that he is older than indicated. What would be gained from him not pursuing a professional career earlier? The sport is big in Colombia so it wouldn't be likely that he got a late start because of a lack of exposure to it.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

yeah it can't be that the 8 flat stages plus 15 sectors of cobblestones didn't just take a lot of energy out of him, it must be that he's lying about his age by six years.

he looks exactly 28 years old to me.

Tour 2015 had 8 flat stages and cobbles.
Check PSM and Cauterets and Plateau de Beille results.

P.S. Nobody's saying that age doping MUST be the option. It is being discussed that it MIGHT be an option.
Get your facts straight and increase the level of argumentation for us to find it enjoyable as well.

As if the age argument is increasing anyone sane's level of enjoyment in this discussion.

 

[vedrafjord]

Re:

b) we're clearly in a different Clinic era now - in the 90's riders could increase power with EPO while maintaining weight

I'm not 100% convinced that this is the right description. Yes, we have the examples of Riis and Indurain, but the ability of flea-weights to actually mix it up is just as strange. People forget that flea-weight climbers seldom did that well in the GC (Herrera as talented exception). Winning stages? yep. but podium on a GC? Rare indeed.

In the line before it I pointed out that the number of flat ITT kilometres in GTs has dropped dramatically over the last 30 years. In the relative absence of ITTs the only opportunities for lightweight climbers to lose time are cobbles and crosswinds, and most GTs don't feature much of either (crosswinds arguably cost Quintana victory in 2015).

 

[Ataraxus]

Re: Re:

not much change from 2015 to 2018 in terms of how the peloton ride the problem is nairo preparation and doping program that seems not effective
yesterday he was 3 minutes slower than 2015

Or he's past his prime now (i.e. 35-36 Years old) and three years ago he was at his peak age.

...or it could be that he peaked early as UNICORN professionals do. It doesn't have to be some underhanded reason for the decline in his performance. Hey, maybe it's some virus that has yet to be diagnosed/discovered that is compromising his ability to reach the heights of his earlier professional career.

Fixed that for you

 

[Ataraxus]

Re: Re:

yeah it can't be that the 8 flat stages plus 15 sectors of cobblestones didn't just take a lot of energy out of him, it must be that he's lying about his age by six years.

he looks exactly 28 years old to me.

Tour 2015 had 8 flat stages and cobbles.
Check PSM and Cauterets and Plateau de Beille results.

P.S. Nobody's saying that age doping MUST be the option. It is being discussed that it MIGHT be an option.
Get your facts straight and increase the level of argumentation for us to find it enjoyable as well.

As if the age argument is increasing anyone sane's level of enjoyment in this discussion.

Yet I see you have contributed a lot to the topic with your replies

 

[Ataraxus]

Re: Re:

so you think quintana is a mid 30 guy instead of a 28 years old? i don't think so but your doubt could only be solved by the doctors that see nairo born

It's a hard to prove speculation.
But so are the majority of the speculations in the clinic right

Based on what we see from Thomas/ Froome/Dumoulin etc. we can speculate about their doping programs.
In this case I see Nairo's face and his results that don't have the trajectory of a 28 year old pro cyclist.

I really don't see anything in his face that make me believe that he is older than indicated. What would be gained from him not pursuing a professional career earlier? The sport is big in Colombia so it wouldn't be likely that he got a late start because of a lack of exposure to it.

Well we actually can't go on with "I really do see.... and I really don't sees..." in here.
We have to maintain the level of argumentation (careful....Argumentation, not discussion) a bit higher
So I took 10 different pictures of the three amigos at the Tour presentation and put them in a age prediction software.
Guess the age order that the software predicted.
The numbers were higher than their reported actual age for all three (as expected).

 

[Franklin]

Re: Re:

In the line before it I pointed out that the number of flat ITT kilometres in GTs has dropped dramatically over the last 30 years. In the relative absence of ITTs the only opportunities for lightweight climbers to lose time are cobbles and crosswinds, and most GTs don't feature much of either (crosswinds arguably cost Quintana victory in 2015).

The decline of ITT miles is absolutely correct, but in the past Fleaweights lost most time in the mountains due to not having the resilience of stronger riders.

Hinault who won most (sometimes all) TT's in a TdF actually gained most time in the mountains, even though he seldom won a mountainstage. For example Winnen lost almost double the time in the mountains than in the ITT (1982), which is eyepopping considering he was among the best climbers and a terrible TT rider. And the best pure climber in 1982 (Breu, 2 stage wins) got absolutely crushed on the longer mountain stages.

More obvious are Fignon and Lemond who dominated the TT's and simultanuously slam dunked all climbers (they won multiple mountainstages between each other). And this was in the Postobon heighdays.

Even if we scratch all TT miles, I sincerely doubt the true small fleaweights will win. It will be the 175-185 riders. And yup there's physiology (relatively heavy organs) and bike weight in play there. Quintana is really an odd one in this respect. Somehow he managed to compensate that gap enough to win GT's... rather unique. Even Herrera struggled in the GC (one GT win for that talent).

 

[Le breton]

Re:

I'm talking generally. i.e. Armstrong 75kg, Lemond 74kg, Merckx 74kg, Wiggins 72kg, Froome 68kg, Evans 68kg, Contador 62kg. Heavier riders generally win Tour de France. Only sub 60kg climber like Quintana to win Tour de France in last 30 years is Pantani and i'm not sure how comparable Pantani's exploits are to anything we see today anyway. You have to go back to Luis Ocaña in 70's to find the next sub 60kg climber to win Tour

This is funny, you claim that LeMond (presumably in his cycling days) was 74 kg and nobody seems to take exception (probably because they mostly see him as a 90 kg fat businessman).

But LeMond was 68 kg in those cyclingdays. Nowadays a modern LeMond would probably weigh at most 64 kg.

 

[zlev11]

Re: Re:

yeah it can't be that the 8 flat stages plus 15 sectors of cobblestones didn't just take a lot of energy out of him, it must be that he's lying about his age by six years.

he looks exactly 28 years old to me.

Tour 2015 had 8 flat stages and cobbles.
Check PSM and Cauterets and Plateau de Beille results.

P.S. Nobody's saying that age doping MUST be the option. It is being discussed that it MIGHT be an option.
Get your facts straight and increase the level of argumentation for us to find it enjoyable as well.

PSM? where he lost over a minute to Froome? Cauterets wasn't really a big GC day as they only finished 1/3rd of the way up the climb, and a group of 5-6 GC riders came in together on Plateau de Beille because there was a strong headwind. Geraint Thomas himself led the group most of the way up the climb and brought back attacks from most of the big climbers in the race: Contador, Quintana and Nibali.

maybe you should get your facts straight instead.

 

[SeriousSam]

PSM? where he lost over a minute to Froome?

That was a nuclear Froome though. Quintana was comfortably the third best climber that day, behind only Froome and, of course, Porte

 

[Koronin]

It is possible age doping has happened in this case. It's also possible he hit an early peak that does on occasion happen. However, regardless of which it is, I do think his days at Movistar are numbered after this.

 

[Roninho]

Re:

He definitely looks 3 years younger than Uran

And Uran rode this TDF like he is 38 so 34-35 seems like a good guess for Nairo

 

[Roninho]

On a more serious note: What about negative pergormance effect due to psychological issues. Or better said: stress.

Fighting politics in tge team to be #1 can be a motivation for some and issue for others.

 

[Koronin]

Re:

On a more serious note: What about negative pergormance effect due to psychological issues. Or better said: stress.

Fighting politics in tge team to be #1 can be a motivation for some and issue for others.

To a point his performance the last two years has brought that on. His looking around when Froome attacked on the descent in 2016 and then the collapse last year didn't help. Of course Movistar's management has also wanted Landa since he was a young pro with the old Euskati Euskatel team. (Sorry for the spelling as I'm sure I didn't spell it correctly).

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

He definitely looks 3 years younger than Uran

And Uran rode this TDF like he is 38 so 34-35 seems like a good guess for Nairo

He abandoned due to injuries from a crash compromised his ability to continue. Are you saying he crashed because he was riding like he was 38 years old.