Quintana??

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

Written this 4 years ago:

"I don't know if I'm the only one, but, in my mind I have questioned Quintana's age. His face gives the impression of a much older man.
And in Latin America (and Africa) they have this trend of manipulating sportsmen passports to show them as much younger in Europe hence to increase their contract values. (There are plenty of suchlike speculations about south-american footballers)
....
Anyway. His results will show in the forthcoming years whether Quintana has that development curve a 25 year old should have in cycling. Hope my suspicions are wrong though. "

His development curve from 2013 onward doesn't look like the one of a 24 years old. Neither does his face .

Ine possible explanation for sure. Something happened with him - he only prepared for the Tour this year and still is way off from his early career performances. Not only result wise (you could blame that on increased competition), but also from a personal point (much slower than some years ago).

Quintana's issue is he's a climber and 55-60kg climbers simply don't win the Tour de France where every climb is raced at threshold, 70-75kg all-rounders do. He should aim for Vuelta and Landa for Tour exclusively where their natural physiology can be used accordingly.

It may be that he never wins a tour because of this but he's been a hell of a lot closer in the past. Have things really changed so significantly in the sport since 2013 or his last near misses in 2015/6 that he's now a top 10 rider rather than a podium contender?

I don't think they have - something has changed with him.

Agreed with Simoni!

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

I'm talking generally. i.e. Armstrong 75kg, Lemond 74kg, Merckx 74kg, Wiggins 72kg, Froome 68kg, Evans 68kg, Contador 62kg. Heavier riders generally win Tour de France. Only sub 60kg climber like Quintana to win Tour de France in last 30 years is Pantani and i'm not sure how comparable Pantani's exploits are to anything we see today anyway. You have to go back to Luis Ocaña in 70's to find the next sub 60kg climber to win Tour

It's hard to compare like against like across history since:
a) there's been a steady reduction in flat ITT km over time (TTT is less important because a mountain goat can sit at the back and get a free tow)
b) we're clearly in a different Clinic era now - in the 90's riders could increase power with EPO while maintaining weight - now it's about maintaining power while decreasing weight
c) it's a much smaller factor but as bike weight comes down the weight of the rider becomes more important - today's bikes are 3kg lighter than ones from the mid-90's - if the 6.8 rule was abolished Quintana would get a further benefit.

I think if Quintana was on a different team with better DS and as undisputed leader he would have won the Tour at least once by now.

This is one of the biggest changes I have seen at the Tour now compared to previous decades. In benefit of climbers.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

not much change from 2015 to 2018 in terms of how the peloton ride the problem is nairo preparation and doping program that seems not effective
yesterday he was 3 minutes slower than 2015

Or he's past his prime now (i.e. 35-36 Years old) and three years ago he was at his peak age.

he past his prime only if he is not 28 but he is 34 :lol:

This thread was revived by my comment (some hours ago).
Its last comment was in July 2017 until today.
Read that comment, have a look at the picture in the link and don't make hasty jokes.

https://roadbikeaction.com/movistar-trio-quintana-landa-valverde-in-for-tdf/

No way Landa can be older than Nairo. Even Bala looks younger than him.

So you are comparing the physiognomy of person from the Andes mountains and a white European person.
That is actually not correct. That is very silly. People from Boyacá physiognomy is like that. As somebody said he looks 3 years younger than Uran.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

On a more serious note: What about negative pergormance effect due to psychological issues. Or better said: stress.

Fighting politics in tge team to be #1 can be a motivation for some and issue for others.

Or simply being overweight!

Heat makes it worse!

 

[dacooley]

Re:

Written this 4 years ago:

"I don't know if I'm the only one, but, in my mind I have questioned Quintana's age. His face gives the impression of a much older man.
And in Latin America (and Africa) they have this trend of manipulating sportsmen passports to show them as much younger in Europe hence to increase their contract values. (There are plenty of suchlike speculations about south-american footballers)
....
Anyway. His results will show in the forthcoming years whether Quintana has that development curve a 25 year old should have in cycling. Hope my suspicions are wrong though. "

His development curve from 2013 onward doesn't look like the one of a 24 years old. Neither does his face .

It's true, but I don't think that's the case with Quintana. He has quite rugged face features with is perfectly normal for his Aztec genotype. But back then in 2013-2014 upon closer look it was obvious he had pretty fresh and young face.
I'd guess Quintana looking so poor is more down to some prep blunder. One more option is there has been some funtamental alternation training- and doping-wise which heavily favours power machines like Dimoulin and Froome compared to small climbers such as Nairo.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

Written this 4 years ago:

"I don't know if I'm the only one, but, in my mind I have questioned Quintana's age. His face gives the impression of a much older man.
And in Latin America (and Africa) they have this trend of manipulating sportsmen passports to show them as much younger in Europe hence to increase their contract values. (There are plenty of suchlike speculations about south-american footballers)
....
Anyway. His results will show in the forthcoming years whether Quintana has that development curve a 25 year old should have in cycling. Hope my suspicions are wrong though. "

His development curve from 2013 onward doesn't look like the one of a 24 years old. Neither does his face .

It's true, but I don't think that's the case with Quintana. He has quite rugged face features with is perfectly normal for his Aztec genotype. But back then in 2013-2014 upon closer look it was obvious he had pretty fresh and young face.
I'd guess Quintana looking so poor is more down to some prep blunder. One more option is there has been some funtamental alternation training- and doping-wise which heavily favours power machines like Dimoulin and Froome compared to small climbers such as Nairo.

Agreed.
And that was the big problem of the nineties with few exceptions. Maybe there is something new again with similar consequences.

 

[QuickZulu]

Here's another man that is going backwards very rapidly. What could be the cause of this? 5 years ago he looked to be the purest climber of his generation. Was he on the dope and he's now gone clean?

 

[simoni]

Re: Re:

Written this 4 years ago:

"I don't know if I'm the only one, but, in my mind I have questioned Quintana's age. His face gives the impression of a much older man.
And in Latin America (and Africa) they have this trend of manipulating sportsmen passports to show them as much younger in Europe hence to increase their contract values. (There are plenty of suchlike speculations about south-american footballers)
....
Anyway. His results will show in the forthcoming years whether Quintana has that development curve a 25 year old should have in cycling. Hope my suspicions are wrong though. "

His development curve from 2013 onward doesn't look like the one of a 24 years old. Neither does his face .

It's true, but I don't think that's the case with Quintana. He has quite rugged face features with is perfectly normal for his Aztec genotype. But back then in 2013-2014 upon closer look it was obvious he had pretty fresh and young face.
I'd guess Quintana looking so poor is more down to some prep blunder. One more option is there has been some funtamental alternation training- and doping-wise which heavily favours power machines like Dimoulin and Froome compared to small climbers such as Nairo.

Agreed.
And that was the big problem of the nineties with few exceptions. Maybe there is something new again with similar consequences.

Well, compared with Quintana's peak years so far (say 2013-16) riders are going pretty much the same speed at the front as they were then, even if what you say about new doping favouring bigger riders is true. Yet Quintana is further behind. The change is with him, not other riders. He's simply not as good as he was.

 

[samhocking]

There was some discussion in the cycling podcast a few years ago about Quintana's exact age. Something about where he was born meant his birth wasn't ever registered. It was only when he needed a passport to race abroad that the authorities realised and so he gave them what he thought was his birth date, but it couldn't be validated, so that is his registered age.

 

[pastronef]

there was an ironic post on facebook saying actually Quintana is older than they say he is. some paper work changing far away in Colombia before he began racing. he won the young jersey at the Tour even if older

just facebook banter

 

[ppanther92]

Someone also posted on Reddit yesterday that Quintana is in fact some years older. Got downvoted pretty quickly and then deleted the post though...

 

[Rollthedice]

Judging by his performancea lately in comparison with his teammate he could be indeed older than Valverde.

 

[brownbobby]

If we're using performance regression to age riders, how old is Fabio Aru

 

[Midnightfright]

I know people scoff at the idea of his age being incorrect but it's a fairly common phenomenon in Latin American players in Baseball so I wouldn't completely discount it. You could certainly see the benefit for Quintana shaving years of his true age.

Also if SamHockings post is accurate you could see out it could easily be done in error

 

[perico]

My theory is that the extreme altitude some of the smaller Colombians have been raised in affects their longevity in pro sports. Lucho was basically done as a GC rider by 1989, and he was not yet 30 years old. He could still ride well, but was not near as dangerous on the GC. Whereas the pure climbers from Columbia seem to burst on the scene and look unbeatable at a young age, they age faster.

Nothing scientific, just my own theory. Or it could be actual age vs. the published one. Maybe I’m just grasping at straws though.

 

[Koronin]

I highly doubt he's actually older than Valverde, simply because Valverde is an outlier when it comes to a rider doing what he's doing at his age. Most have started their declines in their early to mid 30's. Is it possible Quintana is older yes, but I would hard pressed to believe it's by more than about 4-5 years. We saw Contador start his decline before he retired (he was still more than capable of winning, but the decline was there). I also believe we have started to see Froome decline a little. He has not looked as dominate as he did previously.

 

[lartiste]

If we're using performance regression to age riders, how old is Fabio Aru

41 :exclaim:

 

[hfer07]

My theory is that the extreme altitude some of the smaller Colombians have been raised in affects their longevity in pro sports. Lucho was basically done as a GC rider by 1989, and he was not yet 30 years old. He could still ride well, but was not near as dangerous on the GC. Whereas the pure climbers from Columbia seem to burst on the scene and look unbeatable at a young age, they age faster.

Nothing scientific, just my own theory. Or it could be actual age vs. the published one. Maybe I’m just grasping at straws though.

Not at all- keep in mind the body has to work much harder at altitude due to low oxygen, so the aging process can well be sped up in Pro-Cyclists given the punishment inflicted in themselves with training. BTW It is well known that senior folks born & living their entire life at altitude locations are always told by doctors to either spend more time or move permanently to lower altitude places in order to relief blood pressure to help heart & breathing functions - So yes - altitude has its benefits but also its setbacks in aging.

 

[Mayomaniac]

 

[F_Cance]

UCI statement concerning Nairo Quintana Rojas

www.uci.org

Nairoman doing Tramadol

 

[carolina]

Did he forget it's banned during competition?! What a rookie mistake.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Nairoman doing Tramadol

All that slog just to get DQed.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

Wow, while being a minor violation, is this the biggest high profile incident since Froome?
8th and 13th July were the PDBF and the Granon stage, so not irrelevant days although it's hard to draw a conclusion from that.

 

[PhiLiz]

Painless Nairo is best Nairo...

 

[Ilmaestro99]

He must have been taking Tramadol in the races on the key stages to get a 2x positive blood sample