Quintana??

[Samu Cuenca]

He's claiming that he's never used the stuff, so it probably comes from a contaminated steak or something.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

I think this an echo positive from a transfusion. No rider is stupid enough to use an easily detectable drug on a day you are likely to be tested. He was probably using it during training where it is permitted, and it didn't clear his system by the time he extracted blood. He reinfused the blood before those key stages and it still had tramadol in it. Just my opinion....

Certainly seems the most likely scenario, very strange to be taking a banned substance in your hotel room before the key stages, you would have to be exceptionally stupid to be doing that

 

[PhiLiz]

DINDU NUFFIN

 

[Gigs_98]

How easily detectable is tramadol? If this is really a case where he was always gonna get caught if he takes it during the Tour then surely he wouldn't have done that on purpose. But then if this had really been a f*ck up of his medical team prescribing him a prohibited drug, that would be his defense, not that "he had never taken it".

This is super weird. The blood bag theory sounds like a really good explanation but then I have absolutely zero idea if the science of that reasoning actually works.

 

[Red Rick]

How easily detectable is tramadol? If this is really a case where he was always gonna get caught if he takes it during the Tour then surely he wouldn't have done that on purpose. But then if this had really been a f*ck up of his medical team prescribing him a prohibited drug, that would be his defense, not that "he had never taken it".

This is super weird. The blood bag theory sounds like a really good explanation but then I have absolutely zero idea if the science of that reasoning actually works.

Blood bag idea doesn't really make sense to me.

Tramadol is a pain killer that would be used during the late/important passages of the race, not when you would withdraw blood to use during a GT later. It also has a half life of about 6 hours and is excreted through urine, so it's not like it would be caught in an unexpected blood test.

Supposedly its use is widespread, which is why I'm kinda surprised it's not very commonly tested for, unless doses used by riders are typically very small already, but then this is also improble because you wouldn't reach therapeutic doses either.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Blood bag idea doesn't really make sense to me.

Tramadol is a pain killer that would be used during the late/important passages of the race, not when you would withdraw blood to use during a GT later. It also has a half life of about 6 hours and is excreted through urine, so it's not like it would be caught in an unexpected blood test.

Supposedly its use is widespread, which is why I'm kinda surprised it's not very commonly tested for, unless doses used by riders are typically very small already, but then this is also improble because you wouldn't reach therapeutic doses either.

The big question is how often do they actually look for it. Since it's only banned by the UCI and not by WADA testing for it is probably not a priority...

 

[Red Rick]

The big question is how often do they actually look for it. Since it's only banned by the UCI and not by WADA testing for it is probably not a priority...

Why do they test for what drug with which frequency and what randomization anyway

 

[noob]

Tramadol is really hard to get prescripted by doctors in my country in general, since it's a form of morphine. It's as a really dangerous drug. something you get addicted to easily. So I wonder if it's reasons like those that makes it end up on a ban list.

When people say "aren't there other pain killers?" yes of course they are but morphine is morphine is morphine? Sort of what I would assume.

Maybe that @Shadow93 person (why cannot I tag him/her on my computer :O) could chime in on the medical aspects better?

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Tramadol is really hard to get prescripted by doctors in my country in general, since it's a form of morphine. It's as a really dangerous drug. something you get addicted to easily. So I wonder if it's reasons like those that makes it end up on a ban list.

When people say "aren't there other pain killers?" yes of course they are but morphine is morphine is morphine? Sort of what I would assume.

Maybe that @Shadow93 person (why cannot I tag him/her on my computer :O) could chime in on the medical aspects better?

@SHAD0W93

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Tramadol is really hard to get prescripted by doctors in my country in general, since it's a form of morphine. It's as a really dangerous drug. something you get addicted to easily. So I wonder if it's reasons like those that makes it end up on a ban list.

When people say "aren't there other pain killers?" yes of course they are but morphine is morphine is morphine? Sort of what I would assume.

Maybe that @Shadow93 person (why cannot I tag him/her on my computer :O) could chime in on the medical aspects better?

It might take 10 days for Shadow to reply back though.

 

[Cookster15]

Anyone checked on Ryo?

#FreeQuintana
#MALInnocent

Ryo is lurking in YouTube. Stumbled on him there. He hasn't changed - still hilarious. Changed his name but has the same avatar which was the giveaway.

 

[samhocking]

Says ITA took 120 dried blood spot samples during the Tour as part of the tramadol testing programme, so that sound similar to general anti-doping which for GTs is nearly always:

Stage Winner
GC leader
7-8 x targeted and random across the line.

So ~210 anti-doping blood/urine controls over the 3 weeks (in competition) and then however many more out of competition. I'd guess for Tramadol they're just testing a random number passing through the anti-doping trailer be they winners or targeted.

 

[red_flanders]

How easily detectable is tramadol? If this is really a case where he was always gonna get caught if he takes it during the Tour then surely he wouldn't have done that on purpose. But then if this had really been a f*ck up of his medical team prescribing him a prohibited drug, that would be his defense, not that "he had never taken it".

This is super weird. The blood bag theory sounds like a really good explanation but then I have absolutely zero idea if the science of that reasoning actually works.

I've heard this objection soooo many times over the years. Heras, Armstrong, Froome immediately come to mind. Too many doperz have gotten busted doing things that after the fact look incredibly stupid for any conclusions to follow. Tramadol in the system? He took Tramadol. Thought he'd clear in time, didn't.

Not more complicated than that unless there is evidence to show it.

 

[Kaptain Kool]

Tramadol is an opioid but it isn't morphine.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Apparently some races don't test for tramadol so it's still in use, just not in the tour, he's denied all knowledge as well.

Detection timeframes

Blood: Tramadol is detectable in blood for up to 48 hours after it's taken. Urine: Tramadol is detectable in urine for 24 to 72 hours after it's taken. Hair: Tramadol is detectable in hair for 30 to 90 days after it's taken.

Landis vibes? Tainted blood bag withdrawn at a training camp could be an explanation perhaps? I don't think he's stupid enough just to casually pop a couple before a race with the given detection windows.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Tramadol is really hard to get prescripted by doctors in my country in general, since it's a form of morphine. It's as a really dangerous drug. something you get addicted to easily. So I wonder if it's reasons like those that makes it end up on a ban list.

When people say "aren't there other pain killers?" yes of course they are but morphine is morphine is morphine? Sort of what I would assume.

Maybe that @Shadow93 person (why cannot I tag him/her on my computer :O) could chime in on the medical aspects better?

I’m about to drive to California so I’ll reply after I get there.

and it is with a zero not an “o” is most likely why you couldn’t tag me.

It might take 10 days for Shadow to reply back though.

I upgraded from dial up internet

 

[TheSpud]

Yep, precisely.

The 50% rule was there not for safety but because they couldn't test for EPO directly. 50%+ Hem was indicative of EPO.

 

[TheSpud]

Apparently some races don't test for tramadol so it's still in use, just not in the tour, he's denied all knowledge as well.

Detection timeframes

Blood: Tramadol is detectable in blood for up to 48 hours after it's taken. Urine: Tramadol is detectable in urine for 24 to 72 hours after it's taken. Hair: Tramadol is detectable in hair for 30 to 90 days after it's taken.

Landis vibes? Tainted blood bag withdrawn at a training camp could be an explanation perhaps? I don't think he's stupid enough just to casually pop a couple before a race with the given detection windows.

And there is no other painkiller option at all?

Tramadol is an incredible painkiller - its like multi-Codeine. The problem with it I found when I was prescribed it, was although I felt no pain I struggled to string a sentence together 30 mins after the max 2 capsule dose. How the hell I could have ridden a bike is anyone's guess! Yes, those effects get easier to deal with, but the pain relief diminishes as well (although not by as much I would say).

 

[PhiLiz]

The 50% rule was there not for safety but because they couldn't test for EPO directly. 50%+ Hem was indicative of EPO.

Unofficially, yes. Officially it was due to health concerns.

 

[pman]

So does that mean he's the last possible positive test from the 2022 Tour? It's disappointing to have someone in the top 10 have a positive but that's just how it goes.

 

[ontheroad]

https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/what-is-tramadol-explaining-pro-cyclings-ban-on-the-powerful-painkiller/

Barrys comments there on the potency of Tramadol are quite telling.

I’d agree that it is very unlikely that he would be stupid enough to take Tramadol (even if acting outside the team) during competition knowing the detection period and likely consequences. Which does leave open the possibility of a reinfusion.

 

[Nick2413]

Tramadol is an incredible painkiller - its like multi-Codeine. The problem with it I found when I was prescribed it, was although I felt no pain I struggled to string a sentence together 30 mins after the max 2 capsule dose. How the hell I could have ridden a bike is anyone's guess! Yes, those effects get easier to deal with, but the pain relief diminishes as well (although not by as much I would say).

It seems natural that equally potent stimulants would be used alongside a drug like tramadol. I also assume stimulants are still at least as popular as painkillers in the peloton.

 

[FroomeWagon]

I really like Quintana and always cheer for him to do well ... but I wonder if this was about Q pushing the limits knowing he is getting toward the end of his career and in a contract year.

 

[Ripper]

Ryo is lurking in YouTube. Stumbled on him there. He hasn't changed - still hilarious. Changed his name but has the same avatar which was the giveaway.

What's his YouTube username?

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

“"Tramadol made me feel euphoric, but it’s also hard to focus. It kills the pain in your legs, and you can push really hard," Barry said.” From the Cycling news article. Anyone else instantly think of Vingegaard? That guy never knows what’s happening and clearly feels no pain.