Rabobus

[Ryo Hazuki]

kruiswijk sick. lol. do they masturbate in each others drinkingcans or something?

 

[theyoungest]

I never said he'd work for Rogers, or wouldn't be allowed to attack... your poor English was a bit confusing, you made it seem like Rogers wouldn't be a leader at all.

Probably Henao is a better rider than Mollema, so what?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I never said he'd work for Rogers, or wouldn't be allowed to attack... your poor English was a bit confusing, you made it seem like Rogers wouldn't be a leader at all.

Probably Henao is a better rider than Mollema, so what?

the point is that rabobank shouldn't be dependant on someone like mollema because he isn't a toprider. gesink is career over, just mark my words and kruiswijk is failing quite miserably as well this year(he focussed on tirreno eh said). garate? LOL the upcoming failure of a tour is already very clear, yet rabo continue the good news feast on their website and in media

that's pathetic to see a 12.5 million euros team like this being ran by a bunch of idiots and they don't even learn from mistakes. how come a trainer who has been failing for years now like delahaye is still having a job? frans maassen who in every interview sounds and looks like an imbecile is still having a job. that goes beyond me and I'm not even a fan of rabo I can't imagine how angry I would be if this happened in a team I liked.

they f'd up coldeportes first 2 months and it angers and annoys me. however f'n up for the past 2 years(in my book a lot longer btw) now is quite horrible

 

[theyoungest]

Come on, you're such a drama queen... Mollema isn't a top level rider (but is he really that much worse as a GC rider than guys like Cunego or VDB2?). Kruijswijk hasn't really impressed so far (but he was just unlucky in Catalunya, and he had never done Tirreno before so peaking in March didn't quite work for him). Gesink's career is not over, even you have to acknowledge that he's exceeded expectations so far.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

lol gesink exceeded expectations so far? :rofl:

 

[theyoungest]

Yes. Exceeded them. No one expected him to be at a somewhat decent level by now. A complicated fracture of the femur, that's serious stuff.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

They did talk about june being the first month to expect a somewhat serious level when they first diagnosed the problem.

He did way better so far. Only in Catalunya I didn't see progress since Murcia. And now in Basque Tour he had to give up because of illness. So in the end, he slowed down somewhat

 

[hrotha]

Henao might have more raw, natural potential than Mollema, but he's NOT shown to be a better rider yet.

 

[theyoungest]

That's absolutely true. When Henao gets 4th in a GT we'll talk again.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

That's absolutely true. When Henao gets 4th in a GT we'll talk again.

may can't come soon enough

although winning the vuelta colombia 2010 was a lot harder than finishing 4th in last years vuelta

 

[hrotha]

may can't come soon enough

although winning the vuelta colombia 2010 was a lot harder than finishing 4th in last years vuelta

Definitely. He had to beat Sevilla after all.

 

[will10]

Definitely. He had to beat Sevilla after all.

I was shocked to learn that unlike the Vuelta, some of the stages in Colombia had more than ONE mountain!! Can you believe that?

 

[hrotha]

I was shocked to learn that unlike the Vuelta, some of the stages in Colombia had more than ONE mountain!! Can you believe that?

Yes, the Vuelta sucks. The competition is still tougher.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Definitely. He had to beat Sevilla after all.

that was doped and he had to work for in fact. he also beat rujano. yes very impressive. a clean sevilla even showed he is of good level in utah last year.

 

[theyoungest]

Okay. So Henao is already better than Mollema, because he's doing better than him in his first WT race. But actually that's not very impressive, because he's already won the Vuelta Colombia, which is a bigger race than the Vuelta a Espana, let alone the Vuelta a Pais Vasco.

Right, Ryo?

 

[Zam_Olyas]

http://www.wielerland.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21483&Itemid=36

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Okay. So Henao is already better than Mollema, because he's doing better than him in his first WT race. But actually that's not very impressive, because he's already won the Vuelta Colombia, which is a bigger race than the Vuelta a Espana, let alone the Vuelta a Pais Vasco.

Right, Ryo?

to me he has proven to b a lot better than mollema by winning the vuelta colombia. but most people don't know that race. that's why now he's proving it 1 vs 1 in a wt race like pais vasco that people can see

 

[Zam_Olyas]

they did try to learn how to descend http://www.wielerland.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21488&Itemid=36

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

they ahve improved their downhilling. they didn't leanr it. downhillign is 90% about doing/daring and not thinking. everythign what rabo doesn't have basically, except mayeb a lars boom or theo bos

 

[theyoungest]

they ahve improved their downhilling. they didn't leanr it. downhillign is 90% about doing/daring and not thinking. everythign what rabo doesn't have basically, except mayeb a lars boom or theo bos

 

[Kwibus]

Maybe I'm overreacting, but isn't it time for Rabo to completely replace their technical staff and start fresh again?

They got plenty of potential, but no results. Something is going wrong.

Kick out Delahaye and the teamleaders and replace them with fresh blood. No more sissies like Breukink as well. People that have the balls to make tough calls. Rabobank always tries to keep everything in harmony.

The only one performing somewhat atm is Mollema who is known to do his own training without Delahaye.
I'm worried that riders like Matthews will leave Rabo next year go somewhere else and win 10 races that season.

Something needs to change... or I'm just dramatic.
I know a good TDF will change everything, but I can't see it happening.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Just to say this. 4 years ago Gesink finished 4th in FW, 3 years ago 3rd in Amstel.
You would think by now he'd won one of the two races. But in fact, now guys like Vanendert are simply better than him. While I remember when both riders were neo-pro. Gesink was slightly better both in FW (9th vs 13th) as in the Tour of Belgium hill stage (Vanendert attacked, Gesink countered and dropped him).

Says enough about the progression last 4 years...I mean..he was doing well in these classics at the same age Sagan is noiw. Now nowhere...

 

[Arnout]

Of course. The technical staff of Rabobank isn't inspirational, they aren't able to turn around things and they show no improvement. It's been going on for as long as I can remember. Some years the results are very decent, in which case they are happy and say they've done a good job in the pre-season. Some years the results are quite bad and in that case, with the same tone and intonation, they agree that it could've been better.

Also, I've heard that Erik Dekker doesn't really blend in all that well, and that's why they decided to split up the team into different subteams, with a classics team, Tour team etc a few years ago, just so they could avoid working together with one another. I don't know how true this is, but it wouldn't surprise me in a team where nothing is discussed and everything is left greyish.

It doesn't help that most of their riders are of the bland type as well, there's no-one that will slam his hand on the table to try to change things.

Just to say this. 4 years ago Gesink finished 4th in FW, 3 years ago 3rd in Amstel.
You would think by now he'd won one of the two races. But in fact, now guys like Vanendert are simply better than him. While I remember when both riders were neo-pro. Gesink was slightly better both in FW (9th vs 13th) as in the Tour of Belgium hill stage (Vanendert attacked, Gesink countered and dropped him).

Says enough about the progression last 4 years...I mean..he was doing well in these classics at the same age Sagan is noiw. Now nowhere...

While I'm not judging Gesink all that much this year because of his broken leg thing, you're right that he doesn't progress anymore. I've warned you about this a few years ago as well From 22 on, he was getting results mostly on suffering more than others. It's admirable, but you are not going to win races with that in the long term, and in my opinion the results scored at that point can be repeated, but not really bettered by using the same "tactic". You compare him to Sagan, but I think Sagan rides on raw talent. With the amount of races he rides, he can't use the same way of racing as Gesink, he would be exhausted long ago.

I think the willpower of Gesink is now costing him, as he's not developing his talent enough. A change of team would be good for him, I dare say vital.

 

[Kwibus]

A change of team would be good for him, I dare say vital.

You know what's bad. I think that's better for everyone in the team.

p.s. I don't really agree about Gesink since he has the talent to back it up. He is certainly good at suffering, but he also has the numbers to back it up. I know numbers don't always translate to results.

 

[theyoungest]

Gesink has done too many failed Ardennes campaigns now to justify it still being a goal. If you have two goals in a year, and one of them is a f@ckup almost by default, maybe it's time to rethink your strategy. He's always at his best in races which he doesn't really target... I don't know if that's a mentality thing, or the fault of his amazing trainer Delahaye, but it's a fact. Now that he's taking part in the Tour of California, I'm almost sure he'll win it, although to be good in the Tour he really shouldn't.

While I'm not judging Gesink all that much this year because of his broken leg thing, you're right that he doesn't progress anymore. I've warned you about this a few years ago as well From 22 on, he was getting results mostly on suffering more than others. It's admirable, but you are not going to win races with that in the long term, and in my opinion the results scored at that point can be repeated, but not really bettered by using the same "tactic". You compare him to Sagan, but I think Sagan rides on raw talent. With the amount of races he rides, he can't use the same way of racing as Gesink, he would be exhausted long ago.

Gesink does indeed have a great ability to suffer, but don't forget that in cycling, that's a talent in itself, maybe the most important one. He has a massive suffer face, but you constantly seem to confuse the way a rider looks on his bike with the amount of talent they have. Since when is talent a matter of taste? More specifically, your taste? Evans never looks comfortable on the bike either, but I dare say he's done pretty well for himself.