Race Design Thread

[Libertine Seguros]

Brutal.

 

[jsem94]

That is a proper stage!

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

That is a proper stage!

Well I think there is hardly anyone here who has never thought about something like saisies - Aravis - Colombiere - Chatillon - Joux Plane - Avoriaz (or at least joux plane - avoriaz)
However of course a great stage.

 

[OlavEH]

Re: Re:

That is a proper stage!

Well I think there is hardly anyone here who has never thought about something like saisies - Aravis - Colombiere - Chatillon - Joux Plane - Avoriaz (or at least joux plane - avoriaz)
However of course a great stage.

Yep, a pretty obvious queen stage. Almost as obvious as a Portillon - Peyresourde - Azet - Ancizan - Tourmalet - Luz Ardiden stage. That's a combination we will never see in the Tour!

Too bad ASO doesn't dare to use the combination of Joux-Plane - Avoriaz. My top wishes for TDF stages would be something like this:

1. Mont du Chat
2. Joux-Plane - Avoriaz
3. Madeleine - Valmorel
4. Bales - Superbagneres
5. Aubsique - Hautacam.

And perhaps a Iseran-Galibier-Le Deux Alps.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

That is a proper stage!

Well I think there is hardly anyone here who has never thought about something like saisies - Aravis - Colombiere - Chatillon - Joux Plane - Avoriaz (or at least joux plane - avoriaz)
However of course a great stage.

Yep, a pretty obvious queen stage. Almost as obvious as a Portillon - Peyresourde - Azet - Ancizan - Tourmalet - Luz Ardiden stage. That's a combination we will never see in the Tour!

Too bad ASO doesn't dare to use the combination of Joux-Plane - Avoriaz. My top wishes for TDF stages would be something like this:

1. Mont du Chat
2. Joux-Plane - Avoriaz
3. Madeleine - Valmorel
4. Bales - Superbagneres
5. Aubsique - Spandelles - Hautacam.

And perhaps a Iseran-Galibier-Le Deux Alps.

Fixed that for you

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

That is a proper stage!

Well I think there is hardly anyone here who has never thought about something like saisies - Aravis - Colombiere - Chatillon - Joux Plane - Avoriaz (or at least joux plane - avoriaz)
However of course a great stage.

Yep, a pretty obvious queen stage. Almost as obvious as a Portillon - Peyresourde - Azet - Ancizan - Tourmalet - Luz Ardiden stage. That's a combination we will never see in the Tour!

Too bad ASO doesn't dare to use the combination of Joux-Plane - Avoriaz. My top wishes for TDF stages would be something like this:

1. Mont du Chat
2. Joux-Plane - Avoriaz
3. Madeleine - Valmorel
4. Bales - Superbagneres
5. Aubsique - Hautacam.

And perhaps a Iseran-Galibier-Le Deux Alps.

Biche - Grand Colombier would be great too. It only has the problem that there is hardly any chance to make a finish with this combination near to it. Maybe a finish in Rumilly after the Col de Clegeron, but that way most of the action would happen on the Clegeron and probably nothing on the Col de la Biche.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Izoard - Granon
Issarbe - Pierre Saint Martin
Bonette - Auron
Cayolle - Super-Sauze
Chansert - Béal
Mont Bisanne - Pré-Cormet de Roseland

 

[roundabout]

Is this the same Côte de Châtillon, cause it seems closer to Joux-Plane than the usual Tour route

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

Is this the same Côte de Châtillon, cause it seems closer to Joux-Plane than the usual Tour route

Two possibilities:
1) the length of the stage has compressed it so it looks closer but then all the climbs would look steeper comparatively as well
2) the route takes the very narrow (potentially too narrow for the Tour?) road that goes towards Mathonex to cut the corner off rather than going all the way to Samoëns before starting Joux-Plane. I suspect a real route would need to go through Samoëns for the sake of the race caravan and also money, but in a stage as brutal as this it wouldn't change much - add an extra 3-4km but realistically all the key moves will be on the last two climbs.

 

[malakassis]

you guys have interesting ideas. has any of these influenced the parcours of a GT yet?

 

[roundabout]

Re: Re:

Is this the same Côte de Châtillon, cause it seems closer to Joux-Plane than the usual Tour route

Two possibilities:
1) the length of the stage has compressed it so it looks closer but then all the climbs would look steeper comparatively as well
2) the route takes the very narrow (potentially too narrow for the Tour?) road that goes towards Mathonex to cut the corner off rather than going all the way to Samoëns before starting Joux-Plane. I suspect a real route would need to go through Samoëns for the sake of the race caravan and also money, but in a stage as brutal as this it wouldn't change much - add an extra 3-4km but realistically all the key moves will be on the last two climbs.

It's 21km between the 2 summits in the profile

It's usually 26.5 as seen in the 2006 profile

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2006//tour06/?id=stages/tour0617

 

[OlavEH]

Re: Re:

Is this the same Côte de Châtillon, cause it seems closer to Joux-Plane than the usual Tour route

Two possibilities:
1) the length of the stage has compressed it so it looks closer but then all the climbs would look steeper comparatively as well
2) the route takes the very narrow (potentially too narrow for the Tour?) road that goes towards Mathonex to cut the corner off rather than going all the way to Samoëns before starting Joux-Plane. I suspect a real route would need to go through Samoëns for the sake of the race caravan and also money, but in a stage as brutal as this it wouldn't change much - add an extra 3-4km but realistically all the key moves will be on the last two climbs.

Partially alternative 2. I looked at the route now, and it seems like as it doesn't follow the highway to Samoens, but instead follows road D4 past the village of Morillon. Then it turns north towards Mathonex but cuts to the main road to Joux Plane before reaching Mathonex. I guess 3-4 km extra is a pretty good guess.

 

[May0maniac]

Agnel (Italian Side) - Saint Véran would be fantastic and there are at least 2 great climbs that I'd love to see before Agnel, but I don't think that ASO would ever do that, it's just too awesome for them

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

you guys have interesting ideas. has any of these influenced the parcours of a GT yet?

What do you mean with influence. If you just mean that it has been used then: hardly anyone of these. The only one I know for sure is the Mont du Chat but thats a long time ago.

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

An excellent mountain stage from OlavEH even if not that original.

Those combinations listed are also excellent although I do not know them all. The main trouble with the Tour is even if they used those finishing combinations and they don't, they would make it a short stage with hardly any other climbing, not a 220km stage with lots of mountains.

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

I am trying to use cronoeslada and it keeps either not giving a profile or giving a profile for half the stage.

 

[Netserk]

As for combinations, Alpe d'Huez - Sarenne - Les Deux Alpes has to be mentioned as well.

edit: And Cenis - Iseran (- Tignes)

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

I am trying to use cronoeslada and it keeps either not giving a profile or giving a profile for half the stage.

Welcome to Cronoescalada
Seriously if the profiles of this side wouldn't be that good it would be absolute B*******. Stuff like no or only half profiles happen to me too often. Sometimes you just have to press "view profile" for one or two minutes if the profile just doesn't appear.

 

[Eshnar]

Re: Re:

I am trying to use cronoeslada and it keeps either not giving a profile or giving a profile for half the stage.

Welcome to Cronoescalada
Seriously if the profiles of this side wouldn't be that good it would be absolute B*******. Stuff like no or only half profiles happen to me too often. Sometimes you just have to press "view profile" for one or two minutes if the profile just doesn't appear.

I never had any problems whatsoever... And I use it, like, everyday.

 

[malakassis]

my proposal for a nice vosges stage:
start somewhere between strasbourg and colmar, hit col de firstplan, petit ballon(tough cat1) from wasserbourg, platzerwasel,descent in vallee de la thur, ride grand ballon from the west side (st amarin,geishouse, its narrow road like bales and HC for sure) and descent the big road to col d amic,cernay.
i did this very beautiful and demading route in 2005 when the TDF was close.

 

[togo95]

Tour of California 15

Tour of California stage 15: Porterville - Glenville; 165 km





The previous stage 14 was a flat one, but we conclude the second week with another mountain stage in California. First half of this stage is mostly uphill wntil we reach the Parker Pass. Then it's a long gradual downhill and a flat section along the Kern River that leads to Wofford Heights where the main obstacle of the day starts. It is the climb to Greenhorn Summit, which averages almost 9% over 11.5 kilometers. It is good for attack as there are only 20 km of downhill left from the top. The downhill itself could be a challenge, it is very sinuous all the way to 5 km to go, but if one wants to attack here good legs will be needed as well as there are some flat sections too.

 

[togo95]

Tour of California 16

Tour of California stage 16: Bakersfield - Santa Clarita; 160 km





Very much a breakaway stage after the second rest day. The last 20 km are suitable for more attacks with few straight sections and some short ascents.

 

[OlavEH]

Stage 18: Thonon Les Bains - Dole, 193 km

The high mountain stages are finished, as the Tour moves northwest towards Paris. The stage starts in Thonon-Les-Bains at the shores of Lac Leman and the first 70 km of the stage loops around Lac Leman to Nyon where the first climb of the stage starts, to Col de la Givrine. This is shortly followed by Col de la Savine and these to climbs together could be enough to prevent a mass sprint the end. But if the sprinter's teams aren't to tired after the Alps, there is still almost 80 km to go after the last climb to catch breakways. This could go either way.

Climbs:

85 km: Col de la Givrine: 15,4 km, 4,8 %, cat. 2
105 km: Col de la Savine: 5,7 km, 5 %, cat. 3

Profile:

Map:

 

[OlavEH]

Stage 19: Besancon - Besancon, 54 km ITT

The second and last ITT of the Tour. A long ITT in the hilly terrain south of Besancon. The main difficulty is a 3,5 km, 5,3 % climb about halfway on the stage. The rest of the TT are also challenging with few long sections that are completely flat. There are small "climbs" of 30-40-50 height meters the whole stage. For those GC contenders who are good TT-riders, this could be a chance to catch lost time from the mountains.

Profile:

Map:

 

[OlavEH]

Stage 20: Melun - Paris, 120 km

Last stage. Starting in Melun south of Paris. After about 65 km they reach Champs Elyses where they will use the stanard loop around Arc de Triomphe and Louvre 8 times before finishing after 120 km. The stage is more or less completely flat, so I haven't bothered to make a profile of this.

Map:

Summary:
Stage 1: Amiens - Reims, 202 km
Stage 2: Verdun - Mousson, 200 km
Stage 3: Vittel - Auxerre, 222 km
Stage 4: Auxerre - Le Creusot, 231 km:
Stage 5: Autun - Clermont Ferrand, 199 km
Stage 6: Clermont Ferrand - Prat du Bouc, 202 km
Stage 7: Aurillac - Aurillac, 44 km ITT
Stage 8: Pau - Hautacam, 201 km
Stage 9: St. Girons - Station Mortis, 209 km
Stage 10: Foix - Perpignan, 199 km
Stage 11: Perpignan - Séte, 174 km
Stage 12: Montpellier - Mont Aigoual, 232 km
Stage 13: Ales - Marseille, 212 km
Stage 14, Toulon - Nice, 215 km
Stage 15: Nice, Valberg, 150 km
Stage 16: Gap - Chambery, 204 km
Stage 17: Chambery - Morzine-Avoriaz, 224 km
Stage 18: Thonon Les Bains - Dole, 193 km
Stage 19: Besancon - Besancon, 54 km ITT
Stage 20: Melun - Paris, 120 km

Total: 3687 km
Souvenir Henri Desgrange: Morzine-Avoriaz: 1814 m

5 High MTF (Hautacam, Station Mortis, Mont Aigoual, Valberg, Morzine-Avoriaz)
1 Medium MTF (Prat du Bouc)
1 hilltop finish (Butte de Mousson)
1 descent finishes (Chambery via Col de Granier)
2 ITT+ prologue, total 105 km
5 hilly/medium mountain stages
5 flat/mostly flat stages