Race Design Thread

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Jul 26, 2015
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Stage 5 : Montargis-Epernay, 194km.

Epernay, in Champagne, is used to receive the Tour, but almost exclusively (latest and only finish : 1963) as a starting point.
Which is a shame. In fact that same stage was already done...backwards, in 2010, and was won by a twitchy british.
A shame because with the countryside of the region (wine-producing, i dont know if you've ever head of champagne), you got nice hills to spice things up.







And thats why we have three of those (only two are registered for the mountains classification) in the last 25km.
They're likely going to encourage attacks from riders since it may be just slightly too difficult for the fattest sprinters, and the peloton might struggle to organise itself on these narrow roads.
The Côte de Grauves is going to be the key-point here, as we have there a short moment there (500m which is certainly not short for my legs, but should be for them) with the gradient over 11%.
A versatile slovakian may have an opportunity to not finish second there as the sprinters field will likely be reduced, that is, of course, if the breakaway doesnt succeed.
 
Re:

Finn84 said:
Btw, when designing Giro, should the whole race be ready when the competition starts or just the first stage? I have now seven stages ready (or rather prologue and six stages)
You just need to post a stage every 2 days, whether you have all figured out or not doesn't matter. Ofc if you have everything planned from the start, chances are your route will be better :p
 
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Netserk said:
If a stage 'briefly' goes over the border but has both start and finish in Italy, does that count as one of the only two stages we are allowed to have outside of Italy?
Aren't there enough good roads in Italy? :eek: I guess it doesn't count as an abroad stage, but I strongly recommend not to do it more than once ;)
Netserk said:
Oh and how important is realism? :p
It is important. How can I define how much? Let's say I can accept a 90's style route, but I wouldn'd accept a 20's :p
 
I guess that means I will actually have to not include some of Sestriere, Finestre, Izoard, Agnello, Sampeyre, Fauniera, Mortirolo, Gavia, Stelvio, Giau, Pordoi, Fedaia, Tre Cime, Crostis, Zonzolan, Bondone, Blockhaus, Abetone, Terminillo, Etna, Manghen, Pampeago, Montecampione and some others I feel like I'm forgetting at this moment.

But how will a century edition be complete missing just one of them?! :(

:p
 
Re:

Netserk said:
I guess that means I will actually have to not include some of Sestriere, Finestre, Izoard, Agnello, Sampeyre, Fauniera, Mortirolo, Gavia, Stelvio, Giau, Pordoi, Fedaia, Tre Cime, Crostis, Zonzolan, Bondone, Blockhaus, Abetone, Terminillo, Etna, Manghen, Pampeago, Montecampione and some others I feel like I'm forgetting at this moment.

But how will a century edition be complete missing just one of them?! :(

:p
Some others? :confused: I can name at least 100 more that could have a shot at featuring in the century edition ;)
 
Re: Re:

lemon cheese cake said:
What's the rule on Split stages in the Giro?
That would surely mean quite a long transfer, I mean, Pula or Rijeka I can see, but Split is a long way from Italy...

*tumbleweed*

Jeez, tough crowd tonight.

OK, serious mode now. The current UCI regulations forbid split stages in World Tour-level racing, so while the Giro has had some special dispensations before (eg 2009's >60km TT and the 250km+ stages like L'Aquila 2010) I wouldn't bank on a split stage being a viable thing for a current GT design - although they could be of use. Back when they were last used in GTs there were a few rider protests.
 
Between an aborted attempt at a Ronde van België and another short stage race idea which will probably see the light of day before long, I "discovered" a bunch of Classics terrain that doesn't get used in any major race. As a result I have put together a Belgian 1.1 race, the classic "out-and-back" route style, with cobbles and obstacles - and for the sake of fun I've put it in an ideal place to whore itself for sponsorship.

Grote Prijs van Hoegaarden



The Grote Prijs van Hoegaarden begins in Tienen and finishes in Hoegaarden; like the old Destilerías DYC stages of the Vuelta the brewery serves as a convenient finish owing to the amount of space and parking. It's not a long race for a semi-classic - 187km - so it won't be too brutal for the domestic riders. It should have six-rider teams. The first half of the race is in Flanders and the second half is is Wallonia, only returning to Flanders very late on. The early parts of the race head around Brabantse Pijl territory, but we aren't entering the key note climbs of that particular race, instead we loop around to the south from Overijse via Halle and Braine-le-Comte and head back east on a complicated route via a number of obstacles. Every annotated point on that profile is an obstacle; cat.1 climbs are cobbled ascents, cat.2 climbs are tarmacked bergs, and non-climb points marked on the profile are other cobbles.

These are the obstacles:
1) Col du Bois de la Houssière (82,4km / 105km) - a couple of kilometres of uphill dig, especially the last kilometre at over 7%. The first climb of the day.

2) Côte d'Ittre (95,7km / 91,7km) - after a false flat rise then downhill into Ittre, this is about a 1,5km ascent at a fairly serious gradient, but the roads are wide and in good condition.

3) Rue des Comtes de Rubiano/Côte de Sainte-Croix (100km / 87,4km) - the first cobbled ascent, this inconsistent berg will be familiar to those of you who remember my Paris-Bruxelles route:



4) Rue de la Fermé du Pré (106,6km / 80,8km) - a 1500m stretch of cobbles which begins with the 500m climb of the Côte de la Fermé du Pré before flattening out, this one is narrow and challenging.



5) Braine l'Alleud - Marache (118,3km / 69,1km) - after a stretch of recuperation heading into and through the town of Braine l'Alleud, the first flat cobbled stretch is met, a 2000m stretch along the Rue Dimont which is in pretty good condition.



6) Marache - Ohain (121km / 66,4km) - after only 700m or so on tarmac the next cobbled stretch begins, and these are more traditional Belgian classics race cobbles, more pristine than the Roubaix cobbles but not in perfect condition. Slippery when wet, and lasting for another 2200m, this stretch through sectors 5 and 6 is where I see the hammer first really being put down.



7) Côte d'Ohain (124,1km / 63,3km) - barely have the riders got back onto tarmac before a short (around 350m) cobbled berg - not a steep one, but off the back of the preceding sectors it'll be felt.



8) Chemin d'Odrimont (125,2km / 62,2km) - once more the obstacles come one after the other; a quick downhill from sector 7 and it's back uphill, another very short berg of just under 500m in length with a max of nearly 20%.



9) Rixensart (128,4km / 59km) - a less strenuous tarmacked climb into the town of the same name before an easing off for a few kilometres to allow the groups formed by the back to back pummelling of sectors 5 - 9 to consolidate. The 15km or so without a categorized obstacle include a fairly gradual climb in the town of Wavre.

10) Dion-le-Mont (Rue Santau)(145,6km / 41,8km) - a ramrod straight road for the most part, and also for the most part averaging a consistent 5%, it has a slight sting in the tail for the last 200m which are on cobbles.



11) Morsain - Cocrou (150,6km / 36,8km) - another 2100m of cobbles including the ungodly steep Rue du Beau Site, which reaches over 20% in its 300m length; there is then a gradual sauntering downhill then about a kilometre of flat cobbles. This isn't a nice, pleasant cobbled trip either, these are the unpleasant type. This is where the key moves are likely to be.




12) Domaine de la Chise (157,4km / 30km) - a tarmacked climb which gradually gets steeper as it goes on but isn't really long enough or steep enough to break things up on its own - with small teams after all these obstacles, on the other hand...

13) Rue Basse-Hollande (166,2km / 21,2km) - 1800m of cobbles, the first half of which are quite steep uphill; the fact that when the climbing - which tops at 12% - ends, there's another kilometre of cobbles in quite difficult condition before the respite means this is one for the tough men. That 21,2km refers to the beginning of the sector too - so there's only 19,4km remaining at the end of it.



14) Kauterhof (177,7km / 9,7km) - the final obstacle, a cobbled berg which is 1200m long and only averages 4,4%with a maximum of 7% over a 100m stretch, will be the final real opportunity to build gaps. However, the cobbles are in very good condition and the climb is wide open, straight and in terms of gradients isn't that difficult, which means that riders won't really be able to wait for this to make the running if there are still sprinters to hand.



After the Kauterhof, there's a brief looping route which heads back towards Tienen, on narrow roads, before widening out again as the riders turn towards Hoegaarden; at 450m to go there's a left turn and then the final stretch is on an uphill false flat to the famous brewery to finish.
 
Jul 26, 2015
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Stage 6 : Reims-Verdun, 127km.

As promised, we pay respect to those who got unfortunately involved in the field, after that international poker game between heads of state that went horribly wrong.
We'll go right by the national necropolis (in Sommepy-Tahure), and that day will basically be full of scars from WWI.



Cycling-wise, the route is relatively flat, until the last 15k. There, the Ossuaire de Douaumont, on the top of the hill, will be climbed by riders, which is good enough to be a 4th category climb with the summit being only at 10km from the finish line in Verdun.



A succeeding breakaway there is a real possibility.



Like Lloyd said, yes, there is a chance.
A bigger one that expected, since Verdun already received a stage finish in 1993 and 2001, and both years, the peloton was beaten by a breakaway. I know, context and stuff, but still, thats 2 out of 2. So, yes, there is a chance.




Watch out though. Yes, this stage win might lead you to a beautiful career, but it will be controversial, as the riders that we're talking about are none other than Lance Armstrong and Laurent Jalabert.
 
Re: Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
lemon cheese cake said:
What's the rule on Split stages in the Giro?
That would surely mean quite a long transfer, I mean, Pula or Rijeka I can see, but Split is a long way from Italy...

*tumbleweed*

Jeez, tough crowd tonight.

OK, serious mode now. The current UCI regulations forbid split stages in World Tour-level racing, so while the Giro has had some special dispensations before (eg 2009's >60km TT and the 250km+ stages like L'Aquila 2010) I wouldn't bank on a split stage being a viable thing for a current GT design - although they could be of use. Back when they were last used in GTs there were a few rider protests.
Never mind, didnt read Libertine's post properly.
 
Jul 26, 2015
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Stage 7 : Pont-à-Mousson - Grand Ballon, 231km.

Pont-à-Mousson never hosted the Tour. Its big enough, though (15K inhabitants), and every french citizen knows that city.
Well, at least, he knows the name. Because every day, he walks on it.



A large part of manhole covers we walk on in France have been done there.
Does that mean that this stage is good for the gutter ?
Absolutely not. Today is a special day. Thats the first proper mountain stage of the Tour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La4Dcd1aUcE

Well, neunundneunzig, that might be slightly too much.

But two of them will be there to test the riders.
We starts, after a good 100k of flat, with the famous Col de la Schlucht who suprisingly saw the Discovery Channel team struggling to keep everyone in check in 2005, after a poor preparation.
But ASO is unfortunately used to always give us a transiting stage in the Vosges. That one was an example of that.

Instead, after la Schlucht, we're going up and down, with 3 serious climbs, and two balloons. They are perfectly linked by the Breitfirst (which is the follow-up of the Platzerwasel).





The last one, the Grand Ballon, is the highest point of the Vosges, and we're climbing it from the southwest, which makes it more difficult and irregular.





The climbs are not the toughest of the Tour, but a first selection will be done among leaders and climbers.
I'd like to see mountains more often in Week 1, so here we go.



 
Jun 29, 2015
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Steven Roots said:
Stage 7 : Pont-à-Mousson - Grand Ballon, 231km.

Pont-à-Mousson never hosted the Tour. Its big enough, though (15K inhabitants), and every french citizen knows that city.
Well, at least, he knows the name. Because every day, he walks on it.



A large part of manhole covers we walk on in France have been done there.
Does that mean that this stage is good for the gutter ?
Absolutely not. Today is a special day. Thats the first proper mountain stage of the Tour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La4Dcd1aUcE

Well, neunundneunzig, that might be slightly too much.

But two of them will be there to test the riders.
We starts, after a good 100k of flat, with the famous Col de la Schlucht who suprisingly saw the Discovery Channel team struggling to keep everyone in check in 2005, after a poor preparation.
But ASO is unfortunately used to always give us a transiting stage in the Vosges. That one was an example of that.

Instead, after la Schlucht, we're going up and down, with 3 serious climbs, and two balloons. They are perfectly linked by the Breitfirst (which is the follow-up of the Platzerwasel).





The last one, the Grand Ballon, is the highest point of the Vosges, and we're climbing it from the southwest, which makes it more difficult and irregular.





The climbs are not the toughest of the Tour, but a first selection will be done among leaders and climbers.
I'd like to see mountains more often in Week 1, so here we go.



nice finish of the stage, i rode it myself on a hot july day. but grand ballon from moosch is in any case HC (semnoz was,pla d adet was, both easier)
 
Time for something unusual, as I've decided to submit the never-actually-submitted entrant for the Critérium International game - the game was still ongoing when the forum update made the Race Design Thread almost unusable (I've had a couple of periods away and have got very lax in my attempts to bring it back together, but I will do one day, I swear) so I never got around to submitting. I had two very different ideas in mind. The first was a standard Critérium International format, but it was going to take place in Oran, Algeria, since it is relatively accessible from most of Europe travel-wise, in my parallel cycling universe in which my races exist the Vuelta has recently had a successful start in Africa thanks to my Moroccan-starting Vuelta design, there are some small-to-medium sized hills around and I could have a hilly stage with a HTF/MTF at Station Bel Horizon and, crucially, in 1960 prior to decolonization of French Algeria, the city actually hosted the Critérium International.

My other idea was a more experimental two-day race featuring a hectic but varied format in a European microstate. I was reminded of it by my post about Malbun in the thread about refreshing ideas with well-known climbs, and remapped it on cronoescalada. Andorra offers plenty of options but would be all mountainous, whereas here there is the possibility of some more variety in the stages offered even though the country is smaller. That's because this is a two day festival of cycling going by the name of Liechtensteinrundfahrt. Although the total length of the race is very short (251km - trying to do it all within the borders of Liechtenstein isn't easy!) there's a lot of cycling crammed in to those two days and riders had better be versatile. The race would likely only be a Continental level type affair; like Andorra, Liechtenstein quite likes hosting cycling but doesn't really have much of a history of it themselves, with only a few Continental-level cyclists like Daniel Rinner to point at - though due to his family origins Stefan Küng is eligible to compete for Liechtenstein and the country did try to persuade him to in order to go to the Worlds while still a youngster - for obvious reasons of support and backing Küng preferred to continue with his birth country of Switzerland. The likely teams to show up would be the Swiss and Austrian Continental teams (Amplatz, Roth-Skoda, Tirol, Hrinkow Advarics, Felbermayr-Simplon Wels, Team Vorarlberg, WSA) plus some of the more adventurous Continental teams from Germany and Italy such as IDEA and GM, maybe Adria Mobil as well. More than a thimbleful of top level teams aren't too likely, though Bora, IAM and BMC would have reason to participate. Weaker Italian ProConti teams looking for Europe Tour points could arrive as well, such as Southeast. It wouldn't be a strong lineup but could potentially give an interesting race. Stages' conditions will be discussed with each stage.

Stage 1a: Vaduz - Vaduz, 63km





The first stage is on the Saturday morning, and consists of three laps of a 21km circuit which begins and ends - like much of the race - in the middle of the country's capital of Vaduz, outside Kunstmuseum Liechtenstein, under the shadows of Schloss Vaduz. It's a difficult, almost mountainous circuit, but the race is short. Each lap includes an ascent of the Triesenberg (cat.2) climb, which is a not at all inconsiderable 4km @ 9,4% - it is a section of the Malbun climb that the country is famous to cycling fans for. Each climb tops out in the middle of the circuit, 10km from the finish, before an equally tricky descent into Triesen. As a cat.2 climb, GPM points are 6, 4, 2 and 1 for the first 4 over the summit each time. At the line there are bonus seconds: 3, 2 and 1 seconds at intermediates, 10, 6 and 4 at the finish. This will be one that's likely for climbers, but some tough versatile puncheurs could do this as well. Could be a solo attack on the climb or an elite group, but it's certainly not a bunch sprint as lots of legs will be fresh for attack in such a short stage.

Stage 1b: Ruggell - Balzers, 19,2km (EZF)





On Saturday afternoon the riders will head to the north of the country and undertake a TT which takes them from Ruggell through Schaan (the most populous town in Liechtenstein) and Vaduz to Balzers, at the south of the country. 19,2km may seem like a long ITT for a two day race (which it kind of is, especially when you consider it's longer than the country's normal national championships ITT!), but in view that the race is quite mountainous and I want the grand finale to have some excitement to it so time gaps are needed, a reasonable length seems fair.

Stage 1c: Vaduz - Vaduz, 60km





The riders' day is not over yet though - as the semitappe was so short, the ITT can be held in early afternoon, which means in the early evening, there's time for a third bit of racing on the day, as long as it's small and short. And this one will be short - barely over an hour's racing, because this will be a hard and fast criterium around Vaduz. All of the equipment, buses etc. can be parked at the Rheinpark Stadion, the nation's tiny football ground (capacity 3500) while the start/finish will remain at the Kunstmuseum as with the morning semitappe. The riders undertake 18 laps of a 3,3km circuit for a total of 60km. Bonus seconds are generous in order to try to build up timegaps in the GC ahead of tomorrow. There are 6, 4 and 2 bonus seconds at the intermediate sprints after 5, 10 and 15 laps, while in the final sprint the first six finishers will receive bonifications - of 10, 6, 4, 3, 2 and 1 seconds respectively.

After three stages on day 1, the riders can go to sleep calmly ahead of Sunday.

Stage 2a: Schaan - Schaan, 96km





Sunday morning's semitappe consists of 5 laps of a 19,2km circuit in the north of the country, beginning and ending in the centre of Schaan. The circuit is mostly flat, but includes a short steep dig around halfway around the circuit to the hilltop village of Schellenberg. This climb is around 1,6km @ 9% and is cat.3, this means GPM points are 3, 2 and 1. It tops off 10km into the circuit, so 9,2km from the finish. The descent into Gamprin is fairly straight and not too steep, and then much of the run-in to Schaan is absolutely ramrod straight, so balancing this between the puncheurs and the more durable sprinters. Again, like stage 1a, the bonus seconds are the traditional ones: 3, 2 and 1 at intermediates, 10, 6 and 4 at the line. Having had two differing hilly stages (one intermediate mountain and one punchier) with traditional bonus seconds, a mid-length TT and a crit with very generous bonus seconds, we should have an interesting looking GC ahead of the grand finale...

Stage 2b: Vaduz - Malbun, 13,1km (Jagdrennen)





Early on Sunday afternoon, the riders will reconvene in front of the Kunstmuseum in Vaduz. A series of TT ramps will be lined up and riders will effectively take their grid spots for a mountaintop pursuit race to the only cat.1 climb of the race, a legitimate HC climb in reality, up to Liechtenstein's famous ski resort of Malbun. Take off the first 200m through the town itself and you have this profile:



Yes, this is not going to be easy for any rouleur/puncheur types to defend their lead as we set off with a Nordic skiing-styled pursuit race, patterned after the Alpe Cermis pursuit race that serves as the finale to the Tour de Ski. It's a unique race on the calendar, sometimes rather gimmicky, but there can be no denying it offers spectacle. It also offers fans a chance to get live timing as the GPS can be complemented by transponders through intermediate checkpoints telling us who is chasing who and what time is being gained. These intermediates are at Schloss Vaduz (11,3km to go), Triesenberg (8,1km to go), the country's Nordic resort of Steg (3,3km to go) and Malbun Jugendheim (1,5km to go). The GPM points (and stage win) go to the fastest time set on the climb even if the rider wasn't the first across the line - they will be split 12, 8, 6, 4, 2 and 1. The order of finishing and the time gaps on this stage will be the eventual GC finishing order as, due to the handicap start, everybody will be in their GC positions at the beginning of the stage. Riders over 15 minutes down on GC after stage 2a will be given the choice of starting in a "wave" as is common in the Tour de Ski for stragglers to prevent people starting an hour down, long after fans have stopped caring, or electing to DNS. Drafting and tactical racing together to chase down a sole leader is allowed: it's still a bike race and unusual alliances are part of the game in a sport like Nordic Combined where every ski race follows this format.

Alpe Cermis pursuit
Malbun (2011 Tour de Suisse)
 
Jul 26, 2015
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malakassis said:
nice finish of the stage, i rode it myself on a hot july day. but grand ballon from moosch is in any case HC (semnoz was,pla d adet was, both easier)
Thanks, i feel thats the best we can do coming from that kind of starting point.

The Grand Ballon is right at the limit between HC and 1C, i feel that HC should really be for the toughest of them, and although the Grand Ballon, especially from that side, is really hard...there is harder. You'll see.

Stage 8 : Belfort - Champagnole, 158km.

After Verdun, Belfort is also a special place scarred by the conflicts between french and germans.
Actually, the city is better known for the heroic defense showed during its siege between Novembre 1870 and February 1871.
A massive sculpture of a lion is there to commemorate these tough times, made by Bartholdi, the same guy that did that green woman with a torch you can see in New York.



Cycling-wise, its a perfect location for a stage start, with the Vosges on the north and the Jura to the south, and its a common stop of the Tour.

After a difficult stage in the Vosges, we have a relatively calm one today, with only two small climbs, both good enough to be considered as 4th category ones.
This stage is in fact not too far from the famous one done in 2001 in the area, finishing in Pontarlier with the peloton failing to beat elimination time.
We'll pass by the fall of the Mill of the Vermondans. A lot of nice falls like this one in the area, especially beautiful in winter, as they tend to freeze.



Although this stage ends in the Jura department, no mountain is on schedule today, despite the fact that the ending is at Champagnole, litterally at the bottom of the Mont Rivel. Its a choice, we are going south and with whats coming, a tougher stage but not decisive will surely be soft-pedalled.

Champagnole already did receive the Tour, but only for stage starts.


 

w52

Aug 2, 2015
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Hello to everyone! I'm new in here but i follow this thread for a while and now i decided to design and post my first race. I'm portuguese so that race will be Volta a Portugal. This is the first race i design so don't be harsh with me :D

Stage 1: Porto - Porto (17.3km ITT)

Volta starts in the city of Porto with a flat and short individual time trial. The route has no major difficulties and it's designed to specialists, it will start in Rotunda do Freixo and will finish in Avenida da Boavista in front of Casa da Música, passing through the margins of Douro River and Avenida Brasil and Montevideu. Significant time gaps are expected and will force some riders to attack early in the race to recover time.



 

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