Race Design Thread

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That's a really nice stage to La Mauselaine, up and down all day. Do I think a 35km ITT followed by two stages that are at least intermediate is an even remotely realistic start to a GT? Of course not, but it fits with the stated aim for the race, and the individual stage is excellent. The big shame is that as this is stage 3 rather than stage 2 we don't get to see it on the weekend :p

Also, pleasingly, it varies a bit from my use of the same region so that when I post my Tour that I've been threatening for some time it doesn't conflict much (also I use a lot of the part of the country you've said you aren't using).
 
So I'm thinking about jumping in the madness that is designing stage races. Honest question to more experienced traceurs...How realistic would you find having a proper length flat TT (say 40 k) on the first day? Has it been done recently? I dislike prologues and parade final stages and how these have become commonplace. I can obviously just do whatever I want with my route, but do you think in the modern age this would be unlikely to happen?
 
Stage 6: Portugalete - Portugalete, 24,0km (CRI)

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The final stage of my Vuelta al País Vasco is, as per tradition, a hilly mid-length chrono in the same town as hosted the finish of the penultimate stage. These have typically varied between around 15km (the Eibar TT this year) and around 25km (Zalla in 2009 and 2011, Markina-Xemein in 2014) and so this is one of the longer such time trials; it is also, by Itzulia standards, a comparatively flat one. But then, that's not to necessarily say that it's flat of course. The climbs on the route are pretty short but they are steep and so this isn't quite the rolling test of strength that the profile would suggest. After all, this was the profile of the Oñati time trial in 2012 that was 19km long and saw Joaquím Rodríguez make 6th place:

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So you can see, there's not a huge difference, except that in my time trial route, the main obstacles come early on, with the two climbs being back to back in the first half of the stage. In fact, we come out of the gates uphill with the first 250m at 8%, but after that the main two climbs are only short; the first is around 900m at 10% on the outskirts of Ortuella, on a hillside road called La Manzanera Kalea.

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Following this, we take on the same Alto de Cadegal that we took on in yesterday's stage, the first 1,5km of this profile, and sufficient to really put the pure TT engines on the back foot. With the second half being more rolling, the time trial here is perhaps most comparable to the Zalla CRI from the 2006, 2009 and 2011 editions; this similarly had two ascents in the first half of the stage and, while the Alto de Beci featured in those chronos is twice as long as the Alto de Cadegal, it's also far less steep. For an idea of the kind of result thrown up by this course, we can look at the 2006 stage being won by José Ángel Gómez Marchante ahead of Valverde and Toni Colóm, the 2009 edition seeing much larger timegaps on an identical course with Alberto Contador beating Samuel Sánchez and then the nearest thing to a pure time triallist to go well on this course that year, Mick Rogers, in 3rd - although notably Toni Colóm was 2nd originally, however after he returned a positive test a few days before the race he was removed from the standings. The most recent stage on the course, in 2011, settled the GC of that very closely-fought (too closely fought for too much excitement to break out, in fact) edition as, although Tony Martin ultimately won the stage, Andreas Klöden's second place enabling him to secure the overall title ahead of teammate and defending champion Chris Horner and Robert Gesink. The terrain of this route should be more familiar from the previous year's race, however, where in the first road stage Alejandro Valverde strung the group out on an uncategorized climb and broke the péloton in two, with several key riders such as Samuel Sánchez caught behind the front group of 25 or so and eventually losing nearly two minutes; Valverde eventually won the stage, but only after Óscar Freire was relegated for an irregular sprint.

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A 24km time trial with only these short climbs should therefore be interestingly balanced between TT specialists and all-rounders, and far more balanced than some TTs that you get in the Itzulia (Eibar 2016, I'm looking in your direction here).However it is not to be underestimated that the rest isn't truly "flat" per se. Between Gallarta and Zierbena there is a fair amount of false flat and shorter ramps and then although it's coastal roads, the road from Zierbena to Santurtzi isn't exactly time triallists' paradise - indeed anybody who watched the closing stages of the first stage of the 2010 Itzulia which finished in Zierbena; we follow the course from that day in the closing stages, except in reverse. Lots of frustrating little uphills and downhills to break up the TT riders' rhythms, but still a comparatively long contrarreloj for the Vuelta al País Vasco which will hopefully balance out the contenders' list and encourage more aggressive riding in the other stages. And we finish on the same 800m ramp as we did yesterday for good measure.

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MikeTichondrius said:
So I'm thinking about jumping in the madness that is designing stage races. Honest question to more experienced traceurs...How realistic would you find having a proper length flat TT (say 40 k) on the first day? Has it been done recently? I dislike prologues and parade final stages and how these have become commonplace. I can obviously just do whatever I want with my route, but do you think in the modern age this would be unlikely to happen?
TdF 2005 started with 20 ITT, but I guess 40 is a little too much - especially now when many GT's don't even have more than 40 km ITT!
 
Re:

MikeTichondrius said:
So I'm thinking about jumping in the madness that is designing stage races. Honest question to more experienced traceurs...How realistic would you find having a proper length flat TT (say 40 k) on the first day? Has it been done recently? I dislike prologues and parade final stages and how these have become commonplace. I can obviously just do whatever I want with my route, but do you think in the modern age this would be unlikely to happen?
I agree with Valv_Piti. Plus, you don't want to create "big" gaps this early.

I like the beginning of this TdF (a little robust, to say the least - fine by me :D ), and the wine of the day idea is brilliant. Note: the Gewurz made in Alsace is dry. Anyways, I can't resist to predict that wine-wise, Pinot may win several stages and maybe the overall :p .
 
Oct 27, 2015
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Libertine Seguros said:
The big shame is that as this is stage 3 rather than stage 2 we don't get to see it on the weekend :p
It may be possible to have a mountain stage 2 finishing in or around Colmar and then a day in Germany, but then since I want to go towards the Southeast, there are still so many possibilities to make a hard stage I can't resist (either recrossing the Vosges of through the hilly terrain around the border with Switzerland.
I thought I had been tough enough on the riders :D

Tonton said:
Note: the Gewurz made in Alsace is dry
Well, the ones in my cellar definitely tend towards sweet - but I'm not expert on Alsace wines, and these bottles are from 2003, we all know this vintage was quite special.

Tonton said:
Pinot may win several stages and maybe the overall :p .
He's a favorite, no doubt. And I guess it's day of glory will be stage 5.
But later in the race, Cabernet or Syrah could be strong contenders...
(and fan of Pinot as you may be, don't you have a soft spot for Savagnin ?)
 
Oct 27, 2015
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Stage 4 [Tuesday]: Epinal-Besançon
186 km – Flat(ish)

Climbing : 1903 m



Côte de Remiremont : 3.6 km @ 5.6%
Côte de Deluz : 1.8 km @ 7.2 %
Côte de Montfaucon : 3.2 km @ 8.1 %


After an ITT and two mountain stages, today will be a quieter day : the race can’t be tough throughout, thus after a first block of three very demanding stages, we will now have some transitional stage.
A relatively short transfer (45km) yesterday brought the riders to today’s start town, Epinal, which lies West of the Vosges.
From here, the riders will travel initially Southeast, again skirting the Vosges but without any meaningful climb except for one cat 4. at Remiremont and a small number of uncategorized easier ramps.
Then the bunch will move South towards Vesoul. From there, they will head towards the upper Doubs valley, which they will follow – with two exceptions – until the finish at Besançon.
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The two exceptions are to climb the ridges overlooking the valley. The first one is with 30 km to go and short.
But the second one is more demanding with 3.2 km at 8% average (and ramps above 10%) with only 10km to go. The road being quite narrow, positioning at the foot will be critical. The most versatile sprinters should survive this and have good prospects of victory, but it’s not outside the realm of possibilities to see a murito expert create a gap big enough to keep it until the end, as at the top there should not remain enough domestiques to establish a pursuit train.

And if not enough sprinters are confident they can go over the last difficulty, it may be a day for the break.

Wine of the Day :
Though we didn’t directly encounter any wine-producing area today, we’re not that far from a not-so-well-known one : the Jura. There on the foothills of the Jura is produced one of the most original wines of France. Known as Vin Jaune (Yellow wine), it also fits the race perfectly.
Made of Savagnin grapes, it’s a wine that has to live a long life before being opened – it first stays in cask for 6.5 years, and after being bottled can easily be kept for a few decades. Note that the bottles are 62cl instead of the usual 75cl. Its nutty flavor goes very well with either cheeses like Comté or chicken cooked with cream.

Thus today’s wine will be a Chateau-Châlon :
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Broken_Leg said:
He's a favorite, no doubt. And I guess it's day of glory will be stage 5.
But later in the race, Cabernet or Syrah could be strong contenders...
(and fan of Pinot as you may be, don't you have a soft spot for Savagnin ?)
Le Caveau des Jacobins in Poligny makes a really nice one. I also bet a bottle of Vin Jaune to a Portuguese member that Tibopino would better Aru at the TdF ;) . I look forward to the rest of you TdF: really nice so far.
 
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Stage 5 [Wednesday] : Besançon-Tournus
215.4 km – Flat

Climbing : 1070m




Côte de Charecey : 3.1 km @ 4.1%

This will be the second quiet day from a GC point of view. The sprinters will welcome a truly flat stage, without any banana skin in the last kilometers.
The riders will start from where they ended yesterday. From Besançon, they will first go southwest towards Dole, before turning to the northwest until reaching Dijon. There they will turn south, and visit along the next 60 km the heart of the Bourgogne vineyards – the names of the villages they will visit will ring a familiar tone to anyone who loves French wine : Marsannay > Gevrey Chambertin > Chambolle Musigny > Vougeot > Vosne Romanée > Nuits St George > Pernand Vergelesse > Aloxe Corton > Beaune (where we will have an intermediate sprint) > Pommard > Volnay > Monthélie > Auxey Duresse > Chassagne Montrachet.
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Then the bunch will turn southeast to go back along the Saone valley at Chalon. There are two very small bumps in the last twenty kilometers, but nothing that should have any impact.
We can be confident that the sprinters’ teams will make sure that it comes to a bunch sprint.

Wine of the day :
There is probably far more to say about the wine of the day than about the inevitable bunch sprint. As stated above, we visited today almost *all* the best and most well-known “appelations” in Bourgogne.
Bourgogne produces both white wines (mainly Chardonnay and Aligoté grapes) and reds (Pinot !), with a majority of reds. I can’t here detail everything about Bourgogne wines – they are less well known than Bordeaux outside of France, but there are real marvels here. OK, some have 5-digits price tags (hello, Romanée Conti), but even in the ‘affordable’ category, there is a lot to be discovered and many different styles of wine, especially between the Côte de Nuits (in the north) and Côte de Beaune (in the South), the latter being ‘lighter’ and more ‘fruity’.

Finally I chose for today’s stage a Corton Grand Cru :
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Well Broken Leg's turning out something really similar to what I was planning...I'm building a 2017 TDF with the Dusseldorf start and already had a wine themed stage in Riesling country and everything. Kinda feels redundant now. :D
 
Luckily, it's something of a complete opposite to my Tour that I'll start posting shortly, though it may need a bit more of a pause to prevent confusion of the parallel Tours. I know railxmig will be fed up to see it get delayed again though, so I might just start anyhow, but two parallel Tours might make the flow of each race hard to follow. But at the same time we managed in the Race Design Challenge with about seven parallel Giri...
 
Libertine Seguros said:
Luckily, it's something of a complete opposite to my Tour that I'll start posting shortly, though it may need a bit more of a pause to prevent confusion of the parallel Tours. I know railxmig will be fed up to see it get delayed again though, so I might just start anyhow, but two parallel Tours might make the flow of each race hard to follow. But at the same time we managed in the Race Design Challenge with about seven parallel Giri...
Are you planning on doing the next one, whatever it may be? I hope you will, you are the king/queen of the RDT. :)


Summary post of the Giro del Tirolo/Tirol Rundfahrt
Stage 1: Innsbruck-Stummerberg 198km
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Stage 2: Kufstein – Innsbruck 166km
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Stage 3: Zirl-Kuhtai 161km
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Stage 4: Imst - Pennes/Pens 161km
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Stage 5:Merano - Bolzano 35.6km ITT
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Stage 6: Bolzano - Brunico 216.2km
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Stage 7: Brunico - Corvara in Badia 102km
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Stage 8: Selva in Gardena - Bolzano 244km
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Giro d'Italia stage 6: Tolmezzo Trento (227 km)
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As I wrote in my last stage write up, the gc contenders get a little pause between very important stages and the sprinters get a 2nd chance to win a stage. However the stage is again not completely flat and the climbs might even be a problem for riders like Kittel.
The start of the stage is in Tolmezzo.
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After about 20 kilometers the first climb starts. However although the next almost 30 kilometers are uphill there are also a few downhill sections and it never gets really steep, so the Passo della Mauria is only a 3rd category climb.
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The next 100 kilometers are very easy and flat although there are a few bumps. The next real ascent however starts after about 160 kilometers and is over 7 kilometers long with an elevation gain of a bit over 6%, so this is another 3rd category climb. Though this isnt super hard, it might be used by strong teams of sprinters like Sagan or Degenkolb to make the race hard and drop some of the sprinters who are worse climbers. Nevertheless there are still lots of kilometers left on which these riders could come back.
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The finish is located in Trento, a city in the middle of the alps which is the initial point of many great climbs, so it probably wont surprise you that the next stages will be way harder than this.
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Jan 24, 2012
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Similar to an above poster, I've been interested in partaking in the race designing. I actually went ahead and created a hilly one day race along the coast of Montenegro (Bar-Herceg Novi) and then a week long stage race in Pennsylvania. I stopped by here and scanned through a number of recent pages and noticed not too much use of openrunner and was wondering if there's a reason for that or if there maps and profiles are fine to use as well? I could remake them in Cronoescalada I guess but it doesn't seem to have as many tools. Thanks.
 
Re:

Sciocco said:
Similar to an above poster, I've been interested in partaking in the race designing. I actually went ahead and created a hilly one day race along the coast of Montenegro (Bar-Herceg Novi) and then a week long stage race in Pennsylvania. I stopped by here and scanned through a number of recent pages and noticed not too much use of openrunner and was wondering if there's a reason for that or if there maps and profiles are fine to use as well? I could remake them in Cronoescalada I guess but it doesn't seem to have as many tools. Thanks.
A few months back Openrunner was the favoured route designing tool on here, once the update of googlemaps ruined Tracks4Bikers. The profile labelling and styles meant that Cronoescalada rather took over recently and has become the mapping engine du jour, but there are still some who use Openrunner and it still has many pros, and we all understand their profiles so there is no problem in using it.
 
Tour de Pologne
Stage 5: Opole - Wadowice (166km)

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A transitional stage before the final mountainous challenges.

We start in Opole, a city known for its music festival, held yearly in early June. It also features a 10th century church, and has the biggest German minority population in Poland - 3%, though this number was higher in the past.
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km0 is after a 7.1km parade, south of the city.
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We then head into Silesia. The first intermediate sprint is in Gliwice, a city that is part of the Silesian Metropolis, and hence known for mining. The next intermediate sprint is in Tychy, recognised as a city for brewing and in particular the Tyskie brand. The final intermediate sprint is in Oświęcim, obviously known for the Auschwitz concentration camp. Now, there is a memorial there, to all those who have died in the World War II holocaust.

Then, we head into Wadowice, where the finish line is drawn. It's known as being the home city of the only Polish Pope - Pope John Paul II. His childhood home is now a museum. There is also a well known basilica. This makes the city a popular target for tourists visiting Lesser Poland.
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The run-in, though, is quite difficult. 550m before the finish, there is a 90 degree turn left, followed by a 90 degree turn right 50m later. The next road curves slightly, before turning right 200m before the line. This is then a narrow and uphill section. Finally, there is a 90 degree turn right 100m before the finish.
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If they manage to cope with this difficult section, this should be a day for the sprinters, and the final one reserved for them. Tomorrow, we revisit the mountains (this stage should be posted later), before the final ITT in Kraków (posted tomorrow) and the end of my Tour de Pologne.
 
Tour de Pologne
Stage 6: Bukovina Resort - Zakopane (163km)

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BEFORE THE COMPLAINING STARTS: This stage is completely different to that of the past Tour de Pologne. Yes, it includes the same climb, but it's still different - everything will be explained.

The final mountain stage before the ITT. It is short, at 163km. It has 3309m of vertical climbing. Whilst this is less than the Karpacz stage, and features some lesser ascents, it should be very difficult and, coupled with Karpacz and the final ITT, should help settle the GC.

We start in Bukovina Resort, which the organisers of the TdP consider to be 'the capital of Polish cycling'. It is a staggering complex of swimming pools heated by geothermal energy, and a huge hotel in which the race stays year on year. To make my race more realistic, I've decided to start the stage here (otherwise, I probably would've started either in Zakopane or Nowy Targ).
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km0 comes after a 0.9km parade, when exiting the parking lot of the resort.
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The stage starts with a descent, followed by a climb - specifically, the second category Ząb. Currently, it's rated cat. 1, but I think it's too easy to be graded this in my race :D . It's 4.1km long, averages 5.3% and has a short section at 14%. After the short descent we climb the first category Gubałówka, which debuted in last year's TdP and is scheduled again this year, but with a longer stretch and a different name (don't ask). It's only 3.1km long, but averages 7%, is on a narrow road, and has a 16% section.
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Then, we head to the second category climb of Sierockie, last used in TdP 2011. It only averages 3.5%, and has a maximum of 9%, but is 9.6km long. Whilst it's not steep, it is quite long (for this race's standards :D ). This is followed by a descent.

And then we head towards the first category Gliczarów Górny. The current climb is 5.5km long, averages 5% and has a section at 22%. I've gone for a different route, which is shorter, at 4.2km, but has a higher gradient, of 6.2% - caused by a short false flat. It has a kilometer at 10.8%, and reaches 16%. I've also eliminated the name of Ściana Bukovina - I think that's stupid.
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After the descent, there is a climb. On lap 1, it's a climb to the start, in Bukowina Tatrzańska. It's category 2, it is 4.9km long, averages 4.2% and maxes out at 10%. Then, we start the second lap - we descend towards Poronin, for the intermediate sprint and revisit Ząb, Gubałówka, Sierockie and Gliczarów.

Following the second Gliczarów Górny climb and subsequent descent, we start the Bukowina Tatrzańska climb again, but this time we pass the town, leave the circuit and continue all the way up to the Głodówka. The Głodówka is 7.6km long, averages 5.3% and maxes out at 10%. This side is currently used as the descent in the real TdP however, for the route to make sense, I've used this side, which is also harder in my opinion. I've categorised it as the premia Joachima Halupczoka - currently allocated to the final climb in the race. In my race, it's given to the highest point - like the Cima Coppi.
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The descent is broken by the 3rd category Murzasichle climb, but this is both short at 4.7km and only averages 2.1%. We descend into Zakopane - the winter capital of Poland - known for its ski runs and ski jumping hill. This is also where the 'finish' is.

However, when passing the ski jump, where the current line is drawn, we continue into the Tatra mountains and head towards Kuźnice. This is where one can get onto the cable car to Kasprowy Wierch. This is an ascent - it's 1.7km long and averages 6.5%, topping out at 15%. I see this conclusion as a smaller version of Aprica - like in the 2015 Giro (though I'm not comparing Mortirolo/Aprica to Głodówka/Kuźnice :D )
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This is it for climbing, and the end for stages in line. Tomorrow, a final ITT in Kraków, which shall determine all. Note, however; it is different to the current one.

Maps taken from openstreetmap.org
 
The next race I'll start posting is a Tour of Britain. I'll probably start doing that in a week and a half or so when I have time as for the next 10 days (starting Monday) I have exams, so that'll take priority. I'm impressed with myself as I managed to post two stages and an overview post this week, despite at least the fact I was at least meant to be revising all week.
 
Giro d'Italia

prologue - stage 8
stage 9 - stage 12
stage 13 - stage 16
(Thu) stage 17: Voghera - Santo Stefano d'Aveto, 242 km
(Fri) stage 18: Santa Margherita Ligure - Acqui Terme, 135 km

(Sat) stage 19: Santo Stefano Belbo - Nizza Monferrato, 34 km ITT

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I'm a big fan of the wine-themed time trials, which have become a tradition in the Giro. The region of today's time trial, which takes place on the penultimate day of racing, is Monferrato in Piemonte. It is situated in a triangle Alba-Asti-Acqui Terme and is right next to Langhe, where the Barolo time trial took place in 2014.

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The scenery will be gorgeous all day. (Too gorgeous even, as i couldn't decide which places to choose for streetview pics and finally settled for the only fair solution - no streetview pics at all.)

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Santo Stefano Belbo
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It is a hilly time trial. The climbing starts basically right from the start with a stretch of 2,6 km at 6,7%. The climb leads to a 5 star hotel with a nice pool.

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After a few km of false flat Valdivilla is reached. At km 9 the riders get through Castiglione Tinella.

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The second climb (2,4 km at 7%) leads to Calosso.

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The climbs get consistently shorter and steeper. The third hill (1,2 km at 8,3%) leads to San Marzano Oliveto.

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The final hill at km 30 is only 700 meters long, but 10,6% steep.

Nizza Monferrato
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Tour de Pologne
Stage 7: Skawina - Kraków (33km)

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As is now, the final stage of this Tour de Pologne is an ITT.

The starting ramp is in Skawina. This city, south-west of Kraków, features an old, 16th century palace that many tourists come to see. It used to feature aluminium works, which were a key part of the city, but also a power station, though both are now nailed shut. The ramp is on the main square.
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Before the riders visit the main city of today's stage, they face a short climb south, to Kulerzów. It's category 3, 3.1km at 4.5%, though there is a stretch at 8%. I've included it primarily because I'm not a fan of pan-flat ITTs, especially those which end races. Then, they face a highway to Kraków, the capital of Lesser Poland. It features the Wawel Castle, the fantastic Basilica and Old Square (where we finish), and also an interesting zoo. It's the former capital of Poland, it was the 2000 European Capital of Culture and hosts this year's World Youth Day. Unlike the current route, mine tries to show other attractions: the Kopiec Krakusa, a man-made 16m high hill - unfortunately, the riders don't climb it, but there is a time check there - and the Tauron Arena Kraków, the city's main indoor arena.
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The final 1km is on cobbles, which are used currently during the ITT, so that's not a problem.

After this stage, it's time for the trophy presentation, celebration and awarding the main prize.
 
Oct 27, 2015
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Stage 6 [Thursday] : Macon – Lyon
225 km – Hilly

Climbing : 4471 m

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Col de Gerbet (8.1 km @ 5.6%)
Montée d’Ouroux (6.1km @ 4.3%)
Col de la casse Froide (7.4 km @ 5.1%)
Col de la Croix Nicelle (6.1 km @ 5.7%)
Col de la Cambuse (4.7 km @ 5.2 %)
Col du Joncin (4.3 km @ 6%)
Col de la Croix de Thel (4.2 km @ 7%)
Col des Sauvages (9.1 km @3.1%)
Côte de St Marcel (7.6 km @ 4.8%)
Col de la Croix du Ban (5.8 km @ 5.9%)
Mont Verdun (6.6 km @ 4%)
Fourvière (1km @ 10%)


After a short transfer (30km) from Tournus, the rider will start today in Macon, and will go to Lyon today. The shortest and easiest way to move from Macon to Lyon is to follow the river Saone – it’s a completely flat 70 km.
But why settle for this when we have, just to the west of the valley, the hilly country of Beaujolais?
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That’s why I decided to go to this nasty monster of a hilly stage : the riders will almost never go above 800m above sea level, but the overall altitude gain is almost 4500m – that is, that of a quite serious mountain stage. And at 225 km, it is the longest stage of the race.
With 12 categorized climbs, and some rolling terrain when the riders are not ascending or descending, “flat” is an unknown word today.
None of the climb is particularly difficult, but the constant up and down should provide a terrain for attackers. Here again, if a GC guy has a bad day, he could lose the Tour. I expect it will be a day for the breakaway, but a strong team could choose to wreak havoc
The final will be uphill (1km @ 10%) - this at least should lead to a bit of action between GC contenders - with probably just small gaps.


Wine of the Day :
We will spend most of the day in the Beaujolais region, which is known for its wine – made of Gamay grapes, it’s a light fruity red that should be consumed quite young (before five years except for a few cases).
The wine of the day for today is thus a Julienas
julienas-chateau-de-julienas-louis-jadot.jpg
 

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