- Jul 12, 2012
- 8,975
- 591
- 19,080
Tonton said:Pricey_sky said:
It's hard to resist the temptation, when you got so many candies in sight
I know, when I opened my eyes up to Japan and the great terrain I was like a little child in a sweet shop!
I know, when I opened my eyes up to Japan and the great terrain I was like a little child in a sweet shop!
- Feb 20, 2010
- 33,064
- 15,272
- 28,180
Stage 11: Garmisch-Partenkirchen - Malbun (Liechtenstein), 201km
GPM:
Fernpass (cat.3) 7,8km @ 3,1%
Hahntennjoch (HC) 14,0km @ 7,8%
Hochtannbergpass (cat.2) 15,7km @ 3,5%
Furkajoch (cat.1) 17,3km @ 5,6%
Malbun (HC) 13,1km @ 8,8%
As described at the start of the Deutschlandtour, the real race always looked to ape the Tour and as a result moves to produce high Alpine stages meant they often looked abroad (mostly to Austria) for the queen stage. I accepted that in order to do that they could have one stage - and one stage alone - that mimicked the real Deutschlandtour's propensity for putting a major mountain stage outside of the borders of Germany, and this is that stage. It is also - as was the case in the days of Hochfügen and the Rettenbachferner - the hardest MTF of the race, with a large amount of cumulative climbing. And because of Liechtenstein being one of those European microstates it means that the stage doesn't even finish in a country that borders Germany, even though we're under 100km from the German border.
Over in the "Refreshing Legendary Climbs" thread, I talked about Malbun, and how we'd historically only had borderline anæmic stages prior to this steep, painful mountaintop, which has been seen not infrequently by the Tour de Suisse, most recently in 2011; much of this stage is following on from those findings. The 2011 stage was mostly flat with a couple of small climbs; in 2007 they came directly through Austria but ignored all major climbs, only using Arlbergpass. In 2004 they had an espoir-length Unipuerto stage, which was a real disappointment. As unless you do Triesenberg as a loop you can't have a climb that directly backs into Malbun and it averages nearly 9%, stages here will invariably come down to the last climb only, but you can at least put some hurt into the legs first. This situation is exacerbated in my stage because of the coming stages, so this will undoubtedly be a shootout on the road from Vaduz to Malbun, but hopefully riders will be tired enough to make it a spectacle.
Everybody knows about the picture-perfect Alpine city of Garmisch-Partenkirchen, its formation as a merged town to host the Winter Olympics, its incredible scenery and so forth. It is Germany's foremost winter resort, hosting Germany's blue riband Alpine skiing events (the city is the home of the Neureuther and Riesch families), a round of the Vierschanzentournee, the most prestigious ski jumping tournament, and is, as discussed in the last stage, a hub of biathletes and cross-country skiers. Sitting in the shadow of Germany's highest peak, the mighty Zugspitze, it's a stone's throw from Mittenwald and serves as the beginning of a mostly Austrian multi-mountain odyssey.
It is not long into the stage before we cross into Austria, and our first port of call is the inconsistent but rather tame Fernpass. This shouldn't cause anybody any real problems; it is only approaching the 50km mark that the trouble really begins, when the riders take on the mighty Hahntennjoch.
With those 2km at 11% in the middle and 2km at 10,5% near the end, this one will ensure a strong composition to the break, and some pretty breathtaking sights.
This brutal ascent is then followed by a descent of the two-stepped western face of the climb before a long stretch of false flat, which leads into the long but relatively uncomplicated Hochtannbergpass. Although it has some more notable moments, the climb in general is not a killer. As a result I have given it 2nd category after the HC ascent of Hahntennjoch. For reasons beknownst to nobody, the Österreichrundfahrt organizers think these climbs are of comparable difficulty, giving both climbs the same rating (cat.1) in an utter travesty of a stage design in this year's edition, which led to de la Parte easily defending as Moreno Moser won a reduced sprint.
After descending the tougher side of the Hochtannbergpass, it is time for another climb of the noticeably easier side of a climb, as we take on the mighty Furkajoch, but only from the east.
Of course, this easier side of the climb is still far from inconsiderable, wearing its steepest gradients at the bottom and with highly inconsistent slopes that will make getting into a rhythm difficult, although apart from a couple of kilometres kicking up the second half of the climb is easier.
The descent is similarly tricky though, and with the climb topping out a bit more than 50km from the line, it's a long one - over 20km. It is very much a two-stepped descent as the profile shows - also to complicate matters further, the first, steeper part is very technical, while the second, shallower part is very straight and open and so riders will need to put the power down. I have tried to incentivize the earlier attack with the bonus seconds in the 20km or so of flat between the descent from Furkajoch and the climb to Malbun - first in the attractive Austrian town of Feldkirch, and then once more after crossing the border, in the capital "City" of Liechtenstein, the scenic small town of Vaduz. And then we just have the final climb to contend with.
Liechtenstein loves skiing. Quick: name somebody from Liechtenstein... if you managed it, you probably named a skier. Probably Tina Weirather, as she's current, or perhaps one of the Frommelt or Wenzel siblings. Malbun, the country's main - and only major - resort, sits at the top of a very steep road which is kept in excellent condition owing to the country's interest in the sport and also that Malbun is one of the main reasons for tourism to the minuscule and oft-maligned country, otherwise best known for its benefit to tax exile individuals or companies. This means that it's perfect for cycling. You can see the 2011 Tour de Suisse stage here and the 2007 stage here... it's steep, it's difficult, it's almost relentless (there is that easing up in the tunnel), what more do you want (other than climbs to link it to...)? Scenery? OK, we'll sort you for that.
As mentioned, this is the hardest MTF of the Deutschlandtour, although arguably not the hardest stage. Certainly owing to pacing the Berchtesgadener Land stage should be raced harder (as well as one to come), especially as that was before a rest day and this... isn't. This will likely come down to the final climb. However, the riders should have enough climbing in their legs already that time gaps are guaranteed on a climb as long as this averaging nearly 9%. So there you have it - a real Deutschlandtour queen stage - a brutal MTF that isn't in Germany but should shake the race right up. We'll be back on German soil soon enough though, as this is our last piece of cheating.
GPM:
Fernpass (cat.3) 7,8km @ 3,1%
Hahntennjoch (HC) 14,0km @ 7,8%
Hochtannbergpass (cat.2) 15,7km @ 3,5%
Furkajoch (cat.1) 17,3km @ 5,6%
Malbun (HC) 13,1km @ 8,8%
As described at the start of the Deutschlandtour, the real race always looked to ape the Tour and as a result moves to produce high Alpine stages meant they often looked abroad (mostly to Austria) for the queen stage. I accepted that in order to do that they could have one stage - and one stage alone - that mimicked the real Deutschlandtour's propensity for putting a major mountain stage outside of the borders of Germany, and this is that stage. It is also - as was the case in the days of Hochfügen and the Rettenbachferner - the hardest MTF of the race, with a large amount of cumulative climbing. And because of Liechtenstein being one of those European microstates it means that the stage doesn't even finish in a country that borders Germany, even though we're under 100km from the German border.
Over in the "Refreshing Legendary Climbs" thread, I talked about Malbun, and how we'd historically only had borderline anæmic stages prior to this steep, painful mountaintop, which has been seen not infrequently by the Tour de Suisse, most recently in 2011; much of this stage is following on from those findings. The 2011 stage was mostly flat with a couple of small climbs; in 2007 they came directly through Austria but ignored all major climbs, only using Arlbergpass. In 2004 they had an espoir-length Unipuerto stage, which was a real disappointment. As unless you do Triesenberg as a loop you can't have a climb that directly backs into Malbun and it averages nearly 9%, stages here will invariably come down to the last climb only, but you can at least put some hurt into the legs first. This situation is exacerbated in my stage because of the coming stages, so this will undoubtedly be a shootout on the road from Vaduz to Malbun, but hopefully riders will be tired enough to make it a spectacle.
Everybody knows about the picture-perfect Alpine city of Garmisch-Partenkirchen, its formation as a merged town to host the Winter Olympics, its incredible scenery and so forth. It is Germany's foremost winter resort, hosting Germany's blue riband Alpine skiing events (the city is the home of the Neureuther and Riesch families), a round of the Vierschanzentournee, the most prestigious ski jumping tournament, and is, as discussed in the last stage, a hub of biathletes and cross-country skiers. Sitting in the shadow of Germany's highest peak, the mighty Zugspitze, it's a stone's throw from Mittenwald and serves as the beginning of a mostly Austrian multi-mountain odyssey.
It is not long into the stage before we cross into Austria, and our first port of call is the inconsistent but rather tame Fernpass. This shouldn't cause anybody any real problems; it is only approaching the 50km mark that the trouble really begins, when the riders take on the mighty Hahntennjoch.
With those 2km at 11% in the middle and 2km at 10,5% near the end, this one will ensure a strong composition to the break, and some pretty breathtaking sights.
This brutal ascent is then followed by a descent of the two-stepped western face of the climb before a long stretch of false flat, which leads into the long but relatively uncomplicated Hochtannbergpass. Although it has some more notable moments, the climb in general is not a killer. As a result I have given it 2nd category after the HC ascent of Hahntennjoch. For reasons beknownst to nobody, the Österreichrundfahrt organizers think these climbs are of comparable difficulty, giving both climbs the same rating (cat.1) in an utter travesty of a stage design in this year's edition, which led to de la Parte easily defending as Moreno Moser won a reduced sprint.
After descending the tougher side of the Hochtannbergpass, it is time for another climb of the noticeably easier side of a climb, as we take on the mighty Furkajoch, but only from the east.
Of course, this easier side of the climb is still far from inconsiderable, wearing its steepest gradients at the bottom and with highly inconsistent slopes that will make getting into a rhythm difficult, although apart from a couple of kilometres kicking up the second half of the climb is easier.
The descent is similarly tricky though, and with the climb topping out a bit more than 50km from the line, it's a long one - over 20km. It is very much a two-stepped descent as the profile shows - also to complicate matters further, the first, steeper part is very technical, while the second, shallower part is very straight and open and so riders will need to put the power down. I have tried to incentivize the earlier attack with the bonus seconds in the 20km or so of flat between the descent from Furkajoch and the climb to Malbun - first in the attractive Austrian town of Feldkirch, and then once more after crossing the border, in the capital "City" of Liechtenstein, the scenic small town of Vaduz. And then we just have the final climb to contend with.
Liechtenstein loves skiing. Quick: name somebody from Liechtenstein... if you managed it, you probably named a skier. Probably Tina Weirather, as she's current, or perhaps one of the Frommelt or Wenzel siblings. Malbun, the country's main - and only major - resort, sits at the top of a very steep road which is kept in excellent condition owing to the country's interest in the sport and also that Malbun is one of the main reasons for tourism to the minuscule and oft-maligned country, otherwise best known for its benefit to tax exile individuals or companies. This means that it's perfect for cycling. You can see the 2011 Tour de Suisse stage here and the 2007 stage here... it's steep, it's difficult, it's almost relentless (there is that easing up in the tunnel), what more do you want (other than climbs to link it to...)? Scenery? OK, we'll sort you for that.
As mentioned, this is the hardest MTF of the Deutschlandtour, although arguably not the hardest stage. Certainly owing to pacing the Berchtesgadener Land stage should be raced harder (as well as one to come), especially as that was before a rest day and this... isn't. This will likely come down to the final climb. However, the riders should have enough climbing in their legs already that time gaps are guaranteed on a climb as long as this averaging nearly 9%. So there you have it - a real Deutschlandtour queen stage - a brutal MTF that isn't in Germany but should shake the race right up. We'll be back on German soil soon enough though, as this is our last piece of cheating.
- Oct 4, 2015
- 417
- 1
- 3,030
STAGE 15: ARMENIA - VALLE DE COCORA, 35km (ITT)
Climbs: Arrayanal (16,5km @ 3%), Salento (2,9km @ 7%), Valle de Cocora (8,7km @ 5,8%).
The last week of this Vuelta a Colombia begins with a mountain time trial to Valle de Cocora, featuring three climbs along the way. The first of them, however, is practically false flat anyway. A test of strengths, to see who may be in better shape for the final stages of the race.
Armenia
Valle de Cocora
Climbs: Arrayanal (16,5km @ 3%), Salento (2,9km @ 7%), Valle de Cocora (8,7km @ 5,8%).
The last week of this Vuelta a Colombia begins with a mountain time trial to Valle de Cocora, featuring three climbs along the way. The first of them, however, is practically false flat anyway. A test of strengths, to see who may be in better shape for the final stages of the race.
Armenia
Valle de Cocora
- Oct 4, 2015
- 417
- 1
- 3,030
STAGE 16: CARTAGO - CAJAMARCA, 194km
Climbs: Sevilla (10,3km 5,6%), La Línea (21,7km @ 7,6%)
Stage 16 takes us through what may be Colombia's most iconic climb:
La Línea's western side doesn't leave much room for creativity when designing a stage through it, since most roads leading to it are flat. However, with numbers comparable to climbs like Italy's Stelvio (just 500m higher), it should be more than enough to create large gaps between the riders. Particularly since the stage ends right after its descent, in the small town of Cajamarca.
Cartago
Cajamarca
Climbs: Sevilla (10,3km 5,6%), La Línea (21,7km @ 7,6%)
Stage 16 takes us through what may be Colombia's most iconic climb:
La Línea's western side doesn't leave much room for creativity when designing a stage through it, since most roads leading to it are flat. However, with numbers comparable to climbs like Italy's Stelvio (just 500m higher), it should be more than enough to create large gaps between the riders. Particularly since the stage ends right after its descent, in the small town of Cajamarca.
Cartago
Cajamarca
Finally have my profiles all nice and tidied up now(at least by my standards) for my Tour de France. It has been a while getting it all edited but this is my first time posting a stage race like this and my first time using Cronoescalada so I wanted to make sure I was doing that right. Not to mention not having zoom for those couple weeks before the update made things annoying and I wanted to revise my route a bit just to get things as right as I can.
Excuses out of the way, I am gonna try to post a new stage each day. I'll probably get a couple stages written up before I start posting just to keep things smooth as I have been fairly busy here recently and I don't see that letting up anytime soon. So basically it is just a couple days longer until I start posting the tour but I will give you the route of one of my stages to tide you over(and also to be sure that the image loads correctly before I just start posting stages with bad images. That doesn't sound as good as the preview bit though).
Won't give you more info than that on the stage for now but not much longer. Also let me know if the images are acting up as I can always get them hosted on another site if need be.
Excuses out of the way, I am gonna try to post a new stage each day. I'll probably get a couple stages written up before I start posting just to keep things smooth as I have been fairly busy here recently and I don't see that letting up anytime soon. So basically it is just a couple days longer until I start posting the tour but I will give you the route of one of my stages to tide you over(and also to be sure that the image loads correctly before I just start posting stages with bad images. That doesn't sound as good as the preview bit though).
Won't give you more info than that on the stage for now but not much longer. Also let me know if the images are acting up as I can always get them hosted on another site if need be.
- Oct 4, 2015
- 417
- 1
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Yeah, the images look fine from here.
STAGE 17: IBAGUÉ - EL ROMERAL (SIBATÉ), 183km
Climbs: Boquerón de Chinauta (5.3km @ 6,4%), Alto de San Miguel (14,4km @ 6,3%), El Romeral (10,2km @ 7,2%)
Stage 17 finishes at the highest point of the entire race - the climb to El Romeral, at over 3300m above sea level. The long ascent from the valley can be split in three sections: first, the short climb to Chinauta, followed by ascending false flat until Fusagasugá, hometown of famous colombian cyclist Luis Herrera.
Then, the riders climb up cat. 1 Alto de San Miguel
Finally, after a flat section, comes the summit finish - the irregular climb to El Romeral. Also a cat.1, with very steep sections early on, and with altitude being a key factor here.
Ibagué
El Romeral
STAGE 17: IBAGUÉ - EL ROMERAL (SIBATÉ), 183km
Climbs: Boquerón de Chinauta (5.3km @ 6,4%), Alto de San Miguel (14,4km @ 6,3%), El Romeral (10,2km @ 7,2%)
Stage 17 finishes at the highest point of the entire race - the climb to El Romeral, at over 3300m above sea level. The long ascent from the valley can be split in three sections: first, the short climb to Chinauta, followed by ascending false flat until Fusagasugá, hometown of famous colombian cyclist Luis Herrera.
Then, the riders climb up cat. 1 Alto de San Miguel
Finally, after a flat section, comes the summit finish - the irregular climb to El Romeral. Also a cat.1, with very steep sections early on, and with altitude being a key factor here.
Ibagué
El Romeral
- Jun 30, 2014
- 7,060
- 2
- 0
Vuelta a Venezuela stage 10: Puerto Colombia - Colonia Tovar; 167km
The final stage of my Vuelta a Venezuela is another hard mountain stage.
The stage starts in Puerto Colombia, a small fishing village near Choroní.
After 500m of flat the first climb of the day starts, it's the other side of the final climb of stage 9, 27.5km at 5.9%, but it's an irregular climb, the final 6,5km are 9.2% steep.
After the descent we have 100km of false flat, then Colonia Tovar Pass for La Victoria starts.
The whole climb is 20.2km at 7.7%, but the first few km are just false flat, then we get 15.7km at 9% with a max. gradient of 16%, it's a nasty climb. Then we have 1.8km of flase flat (the view is breathtaking) before a short, steep descent brings the riders to Colonia Tovar, a small town that was founded in 1843 by German immigrants from Baden and the whole town looks like it was built in Baden and most people speak an unique local Low Alemannic dialect that has acquired some Spanish loanwords. The local cuisine is also clearly of German origin and they still have many German traditions, they have an Oktoberfest, celebrate St. Martin's day and clelebrate an Alemannic Carnival. This year the Vuelta a Venezuela even finished in Colonia Tovar, but they used the eastern side of the climb that is just a long drag that features lots of false flat. The stage was won by Jose Alarcon.
This is the final stage of my Vuelta a Venezuela, so the riders should go all out. With 1.8km of false flat on top of the Colonia Tovar Pass the riders should be forced to attack earlier and not just on the final 3km.
This was the final stage of my Vuelta, I hope you enjoyed it.
I've also finished a Tour of Idaho and a hilly one day race that that takes place in Georgia (the US state, not the country).
Puerto Colombia:
Colonia Tovar:
The final stage of my Vuelta a Venezuela is another hard mountain stage.
The stage starts in Puerto Colombia, a small fishing village near Choroní.
After 500m of flat the first climb of the day starts, it's the other side of the final climb of stage 9, 27.5km at 5.9%, but it's an irregular climb, the final 6,5km are 9.2% steep.
After the descent we have 100km of false flat, then Colonia Tovar Pass for La Victoria starts.
The whole climb is 20.2km at 7.7%, but the first few km are just false flat, then we get 15.7km at 9% with a max. gradient of 16%, it's a nasty climb. Then we have 1.8km of flase flat (the view is breathtaking) before a short, steep descent brings the riders to Colonia Tovar, a small town that was founded in 1843 by German immigrants from Baden and the whole town looks like it was built in Baden and most people speak an unique local Low Alemannic dialect that has acquired some Spanish loanwords. The local cuisine is also clearly of German origin and they still have many German traditions, they have an Oktoberfest, celebrate St. Martin's day and clelebrate an Alemannic Carnival. This year the Vuelta a Venezuela even finished in Colonia Tovar, but they used the eastern side of the climb that is just a long drag that features lots of false flat. The stage was won by Jose Alarcon.
This is the final stage of my Vuelta a Venezuela, so the riders should go all out. With 1.8km of false flat on top of the Colonia Tovar Pass the riders should be forced to attack earlier and not just on the final 3km.
This was the final stage of my Vuelta, I hope you enjoyed it.
I've also finished a Tour of Idaho and a hilly one day race that that takes place in Georgia (the US state, not the country).
Puerto Colombia:
Colonia Tovar:
- Oct 4, 2015
- 417
- 1
- 3,030
STAGE 18: SIBATÉ - VILLAVICENCIO, 168km
Climbs: Chipaque (14,2km @ 4,2%), Buenavista (8,6km @ 8,1%)
An relatively light stage, right before the final weekend. The stage starts in Sibaté, then goes up the shallow climb to Chipaque before facing a very long descent to Villavicencio. From there the stage loops back through the old road to Bogotá, facing the difficult cat.1 climb of Buenavista, before descending back to Villavicencio via the main road.
Sibaté
Villavicencio
Climbs: Chipaque (14,2km @ 4,2%), Buenavista (8,6km @ 8,1%)
An relatively light stage, right before the final weekend. The stage starts in Sibaté, then goes up the shallow climb to Chipaque before facing a very long descent to Villavicencio. From there the stage loops back through the old road to Bogotá, facing the difficult cat.1 climb of Buenavista, before descending back to Villavicencio via the main road.
Sibaté
Villavicencio
- Oct 4, 2015
- 417
- 1
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STAGE 19: VILLAVICENCIO - SANTUARIO DE GUADALUPE (BOGOTÁ), 139km
Climbs: Buenavista (9,1km @ 7,9%), Cáqueza (1,9km @ 10,7%), Chipaque (23,9km @ 6,8%), Guadalupe (11,4km @ 5,5%)
Last chance for climbers to gain time before the Bogotá stage. After a short loop around the start city, the riders start climbing back to Bogotá following roughly the same route used to descend in last stage, detouring for a bit to climb the short and extremely steep Cáqueza wall before climbing Chipaque's hardest side:
Any important gaps will have to made here, before the descent to Bogotá and ascent to the finish line in Guadalupe - a relatively mild climb, which a much steeper final 2 km.
Santuario de Guadalupe
Climbs: Buenavista (9,1km @ 7,9%), Cáqueza (1,9km @ 10,7%), Chipaque (23,9km @ 6,8%), Guadalupe (11,4km @ 5,5%)
Last chance for climbers to gain time before the Bogotá stage. After a short loop around the start city, the riders start climbing back to Bogotá following roughly the same route used to descend in last stage, detouring for a bit to climb the short and extremely steep Cáqueza wall before climbing Chipaque's hardest side:
Any important gaps will have to made here, before the descent to Bogotá and ascent to the finish line in Guadalupe - a relatively mild climb, which a much steeper final 2 km.
Santuario de Guadalupe
- Oct 4, 2015
- 417
- 1
- 3,030
Now, to wrap it up
STAGE 20: BOGOTÁ - BOGOTÁ, 131km
Climbs: Parque Nacional (1,7km @ 5,2%, 10 laps), Media Torta (1,5km @ 5,3%)
Instead of the typical end-of-race parade, the final stage of this Vuelta features a hilly 13,1 circuit with two short climbs. If gaps are still tight, there might be surprises.
Bogotá
STAGE 20: BOGOTÁ - BOGOTÁ, 131km
Climbs: Parque Nacional (1,7km @ 5,2%, 10 laps), Media Torta (1,5km @ 5,3%)
Instead of the typical end-of-race parade, the final stage of this Vuelta features a hilly 13,1 circuit with two short climbs. If gaps are still tight, there might be surprises.
Bogotá
- Feb 20, 2010
- 33,064
- 15,272
- 28,180
Good God, the Colonia Tovar Pass is monolithic!!!
Also bp92, thank you for putting in the Alto de San Miguel. Lot of history there, Lucho Herrera's training climb, deserves to be as synonymous with him as Il Cippo is with Pantani
Also bp92, thank you for putting in the Alto de San Miguel. Lot of history there, Lucho Herrera's training climb, deserves to be as synonymous with him as Il Cippo is with Pantani
- Oct 4, 2015
- 417
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Well, in Venezuela they also have this thing north of Caracas, if you really want to go crazy.
I believe San Miguel has been missing from major colombian races for a while. Most of the time when climbing from the Magdalena river they just take a different road just north. I like this way better, though, since you can add Romeral up at the end.
I believe San Miguel has been missing from major colombian races for a while. Most of the time when climbing from the Magdalena river they just take a different road just north. I like this way better, though, since you can add Romeral up at the end.
- Jun 30, 2014
- 7,060
- 2
- 0
Re:
Funny that you mentioned it, I already mentioned the climb in the Great "unknown" climbs thread, but those gradients are just a little bit too crazy.bp92 said:
- Feb 20, 2010
- 33,064
- 15,272
- 28,180
Stage 12: Konstanz - Singen, 48,5km (EZF)
GPM: Duchtlinger Berg (cat.4) 2,1km @ 6,0%
After a fairly sizeable transfer across the roads of Switzerland, we're back on German soil for the stage that I already warned may hamper action before, hence why I made the last stage finish on a climb steep enough to ensure there will be at least some gaps opened anyway; it's the long ITT that serves as the chance for the time trial-biased contender to fight back any and all time lost in the Berchtesgadener Land and in Liechtenstein. At nearly 50km this is a long TT, but this makes a total of between 65 and 70km in the race (no further TT kilometres remain after this) which, for a two week race, seems fairly reasonable given that:
a) most of us in the thread seem agreed that there should be two at least proper length time trials in any given GT
b) the Dauphiné can get by with 50km of TT in a week-long race given that the mountain stages are usually strong enough to counterbalance it
c) this is not a pure GT and there are also a few cobbled stages and other classics style stages to balance the event
d) Germany produces strong TT riders historically and appreciates top performance in the discipline.
The stage starts in the very scenic city of Konstanz, by the western shore of the Bodensee, and mostly heads along the shores of the scenic Untersee for the first half over rolling terrain which will provide excellent helicam footage.
It's only after passing Radolfzell at the halfway point that we move away from the scenic shorelines and into the forests of southern Germany. The finishing point of the point-to-point TT is the industrial city of Singen, famous mainly for serving as a regular escape route from Germany into Switzerland during World War II, and later less dramatically for the less than inspiring, squared-corner fetishizing Alemannenring racing circuit used by the DTM series in the 1990s. The city itself isn't especially exciting, and the route there from Konstanz is just over 30km. With two major mountain stages already passed, however, this is perhaps insufficient, and so I have added an additional loop to the ITT including a short hill as we circle the historical volcanic protrusion that is Hohentwiel.
The climb is actually into the village of Duchtlingen, after which we take a gradual descent back into the centre of Singen to finish. 50km of ITT mileage ought to set us up nicely for the climactic stages to come and make things interesting.
GPM: Duchtlinger Berg (cat.4) 2,1km @ 6,0%
After a fairly sizeable transfer across the roads of Switzerland, we're back on German soil for the stage that I already warned may hamper action before, hence why I made the last stage finish on a climb steep enough to ensure there will be at least some gaps opened anyway; it's the long ITT that serves as the chance for the time trial-biased contender to fight back any and all time lost in the Berchtesgadener Land and in Liechtenstein. At nearly 50km this is a long TT, but this makes a total of between 65 and 70km in the race (no further TT kilometres remain after this) which, for a two week race, seems fairly reasonable given that:
a) most of us in the thread seem agreed that there should be two at least proper length time trials in any given GT
b) the Dauphiné can get by with 50km of TT in a week-long race given that the mountain stages are usually strong enough to counterbalance it
c) this is not a pure GT and there are also a few cobbled stages and other classics style stages to balance the event
d) Germany produces strong TT riders historically and appreciates top performance in the discipline.
The stage starts in the very scenic city of Konstanz, by the western shore of the Bodensee, and mostly heads along the shores of the scenic Untersee for the first half over rolling terrain which will provide excellent helicam footage.
It's only after passing Radolfzell at the halfway point that we move away from the scenic shorelines and into the forests of southern Germany. The finishing point of the point-to-point TT is the industrial city of Singen, famous mainly for serving as a regular escape route from Germany into Switzerland during World War II, and later less dramatically for the less than inspiring, squared-corner fetishizing Alemannenring racing circuit used by the DTM series in the 1990s. The city itself isn't especially exciting, and the route there from Konstanz is just over 30km. With two major mountain stages already passed, however, this is perhaps insufficient, and so I have added an additional loop to the ITT including a short hill as we circle the historical volcanic protrusion that is Hohentwiel.
The climb is actually into the village of Duchtlingen, after which we take a gradual descent back into the centre of Singen to finish. 50km of ITT mileage ought to set us up nicely for the climactic stages to come and make things interesting.
Stage 20 : Brive-la-Gaillarde - Tulle, 245km
Officially, there is barely above 1/10 of that distance between those two cities. (28km).
Both are in the Corrèze département, both have already received the Tour.
For Brive, the last two stage finishes were won by Cipollini and Cavendish.
Hilariously wrong considering the route for 1998, as each one of the previous 6 (!) stages was flat.
How can it be totally flat when both of these cities are stuck in a narrow valley alongside the river Corrèze ?
Sure, thats more true for Tulle, but that was disappointing. Euphemism.
Anyway, Tulle received the Tour in 1996, and also saw a sprinter win.
But that time, the Tashkent Terror, the Uzbek Express, the Bactrian Tornado, the great and only Djamolidine Abdoujaparov won, on a breakaway, what would be his last win in a GT.
It was a hilly finish.
Today, it will be an hilly race.
I am often disappointed by the choices of ASO, who is just too often prone (Ventoux, Tourmalet, Alpe d'Huez in the last 6 years) to use a massive mountain stage+finish as the last chance to make something happen.
Thats paralyzing for the riders, and as they're way too conservative right now, i feel that its not the best way to push them to attack in previous stages.
For today we have an Ardennes-like route, with 16 climbs over 245km, for an elevation gain over 4.100m.
Only those who reached a certain length or gradient are registered for the mountains classification, who could be decided today.
They may not be extra-steep for the most part, but they're still demanding, and controlling the race today will be seriously difficult.
And as it is very open, anything can happen. I feel that this kind of stage will be perfect without earpieces and team radios, but thats another issue.
I also feel that putting this kind of stage before the mountains is inappropriate, as the situation isnt there to create gaps, everyone still naively believing in the chances of their leader, whereas we all know he's going to end up 9th.
Once the mountains are done (at least one true stage), some will finally realize that they'll have to be creative to move up in the classification...
We'll start from Brive with a first loop of 80-85km to the south, on one bank of the Corrèze, and then we're going back to the north, on the other one. That will mean several small ascents, followed by a descent and we're going on like this for the day.
The northern part really starts the race as it is much harder there. The Côte d'Allassac is the first challenge, with a large part of the hill over 6.5%.
The next one is even tougher, the Côte de Travassac reaches over 8% for 2km, and we're over 10% for 400m.
We're not actually going through the slate walls, don't worry.
We're re-crossing twice the Corrèze en route to Tulle, with two other hills with parts over 7-8% for 1km or so.
Once in Tulle, as we're in the "city with seven hills", we're going to use them on a big loop around the city.
La Croix de Bar, going over 10% for 500m will be the most challenging for a while.
After crossing once again the Corrèze, we're ending the race from the South, with two more serious hills. Les Torts is not that difficult, but the first hundred meters are, they're over 7%, and the road is not very large.
The last climb of the day will be the toughest.
500m over 12% on a very narrow road, not unlike the Amstel or the Basque races with more obstacles on the road than actual asphalt.
It's not the steepest part, but its the cleanest for the eye.
A long (well, 2km is not that long, but thats longer than the wall itself, and for my legs, its torture) false flat follows and the finish line is 2km later.
Its not exactly as hard as i want that kind of stage to be (i would love to have a couple of real tests in there), but in is this area, i think you cant have much harder than that.
Its very comparable to the Amstel Gold Race, not as hard, but close enough.
With over 240km of racing in the Stage 20, and the obvious desperation from several riders and teams, as this one is wide open, this is the best way, i think, to finish the race.
The GC will normally not change if the gap is significant, but the race in itself should be very interesting and more dynamic than in Week 1 (where they are often seen), as the legs are tired, and the need to keep gas for later stages is completely gone.
And if the gap is not significant, well...i feel that open a lot of possibilities.
Officially, there is barely above 1/10 of that distance between those two cities. (28km).
Both are in the Corrèze département, both have already received the Tour.
For Brive, the last two stage finishes were won by Cipollini and Cavendish.
Hilariously wrong considering the route for 1998, as each one of the previous 6 (!) stages was flat.
How can it be totally flat when both of these cities are stuck in a narrow valley alongside the river Corrèze ?
Sure, thats more true for Tulle, but that was disappointing. Euphemism.
Anyway, Tulle received the Tour in 1996, and also saw a sprinter win.
But that time, the Tashkent Terror, the Uzbek Express, the Bactrian Tornado, the great and only Djamolidine Abdoujaparov won, on a breakaway, what would be his last win in a GT.
It was a hilly finish.
Today, it will be an hilly race.
I am often disappointed by the choices of ASO, who is just too often prone (Ventoux, Tourmalet, Alpe d'Huez in the last 6 years) to use a massive mountain stage+finish as the last chance to make something happen.
Thats paralyzing for the riders, and as they're way too conservative right now, i feel that its not the best way to push them to attack in previous stages.
For today we have an Ardennes-like route, with 16 climbs over 245km, for an elevation gain over 4.100m.
Only those who reached a certain length or gradient are registered for the mountains classification, who could be decided today.
They may not be extra-steep for the most part, but they're still demanding, and controlling the race today will be seriously difficult.
And as it is very open, anything can happen. I feel that this kind of stage will be perfect without earpieces and team radios, but thats another issue.
I also feel that putting this kind of stage before the mountains is inappropriate, as the situation isnt there to create gaps, everyone still naively believing in the chances of their leader, whereas we all know he's going to end up 9th.
Once the mountains are done (at least one true stage), some will finally realize that they'll have to be creative to move up in the classification...
We'll start from Brive with a first loop of 80-85km to the south, on one bank of the Corrèze, and then we're going back to the north, on the other one. That will mean several small ascents, followed by a descent and we're going on like this for the day.
The northern part really starts the race as it is much harder there. The Côte d'Allassac is the first challenge, with a large part of the hill over 6.5%.
The next one is even tougher, the Côte de Travassac reaches over 8% for 2km, and we're over 10% for 400m.
We're not actually going through the slate walls, don't worry.
We're re-crossing twice the Corrèze en route to Tulle, with two other hills with parts over 7-8% for 1km or so.
Once in Tulle, as we're in the "city with seven hills", we're going to use them on a big loop around the city.
La Croix de Bar, going over 10% for 500m will be the most challenging for a while.
After crossing once again the Corrèze, we're ending the race from the South, with two more serious hills. Les Torts is not that difficult, but the first hundred meters are, they're over 7%, and the road is not very large.
The last climb of the day will be the toughest.
500m over 12% on a very narrow road, not unlike the Amstel or the Basque races with more obstacles on the road than actual asphalt.
It's not the steepest part, but its the cleanest for the eye.
A long (well, 2km is not that long, but thats longer than the wall itself, and for my legs, its torture) false flat follows and the finish line is 2km later.
Its not exactly as hard as i want that kind of stage to be (i would love to have a couple of real tests in there), but in is this area, i think you cant have much harder than that.
Its very comparable to the Amstel Gold Race, not as hard, but close enough.
With over 240km of racing in the Stage 20, and the obvious desperation from several riders and teams, as this one is wide open, this is the best way, i think, to finish the race.
The GC will normally not change if the gap is significant, but the race in itself should be very interesting and more dynamic than in Week 1 (where they are often seen), as the legs are tired, and the need to keep gas for later stages is completely gone.
And if the gap is not significant, well...i feel that open a lot of possibilities.
- Sep 28, 2014
- 3,639
- 1,608
- 16,680
That commentator to me sounds like half Carlton Kirby, half Anthony McCrossan.Libertine Seguros said:
- Feb 20, 2010
- 33,064
- 15,272
- 28,180
Stage 13: Bad Säckingen - Feldberg, 198km
GPM:
Egerten (cat.2) 3,3km @ 8,6%
Kreuzweg (cat.1) 12,3km @ 6,2%
Hohtann (cat.1) 9,3km @ 6,7%
Schauinsland (cat.1) 7,2km @ 8,0%
Kandel (HC) 11,8km @ 8,0%
Notschrei (cat.1) 13,5km @ 5,4%
Feldberg (cat.1) 10,1km @ 5,8%
The second queen stage of the Deutschlandtour features no fewer than seven serious mountains as we take on a sawtoothed monster stage in the Schwarzwald. And unlike comparatively anæmic queen stages in the region such as this one from 2005 we're going to be trying to guaran-damn-tee that we get some action here, although I guess the MTF at Feldberg in 2003 wasn't too bad. However, this one is not going to give the riders a chance to all come packed up if I can help it.
We start the stage in Bad Säckingen, a scenic border town which is on the banks of the Rhein at the point where it forms the border between Germany and Switzerland. Sitting right at the very south of the country, it serves as an excellent gateway into the Schwarzwald from the south, enabling us to build up the day's climbs, which mostly back into each other aggressively. After a rolling opening, the first climb of the day is to Egerten, which is short but steep, before leading into a second minor ascent and then a steep and technical - though fairly wide - descent. This descent leads us straight into the second climb, a longer and more conventional climb to Kreuzweg. The back-to-back nature of these climbs should help us get a strong break move especially as, following the near 50km ITT yesterday, this is the final big mountain day so any grandiose plans will likely have to be set for this stage. Being lower than the Alps, the snowy peaks and lunar landscapes of scenery above the treeline are at a premium here, so we'll be treated to some stylish, verdant countryside passing by.
The climbs continue to back into one another, however, with the next up being the strong southern face of Hohtann, also known as Rollspitz. This crest between Belchen and the pass at Wiedener Eck invariably features in my Schwarzwald stages paired with the steepest, southwestern face of Schauinsland, the Hausberg of Freiburg in Breisgau. This, despite the short length (just 7km) gets the category 1 status mainly because of the 3km at nearly 12% early on, as shown on this profile. And it also gives us spectacular views.
From Schauinsland we descend rather predictably into a city which perhaps wants to forget what cycling history it has - being at the centre of a doping investigation that involved several members of the T-Mobile squad and helped cause the Tour to disappear from German TV for the best part of a decade. Coming with 82km remaining, the city of Freiburg includes the feed zone, and then leads to the only section of flat on the route, a 20km stretch to Waldkirch, before we take on the hardest climb of the day and the last HC climb of the Deutschlandtour - the relentless slog of Kandel.
This tricky climb barely relents at all for nearly 12km which average a not inconsiderable 8%. It was last seen in racing in 2005, in the Rothaus Regio-Tour, where it was the scene of an MTT, which was won perhaps a little surprisingly in retrosepct, by former World ITT champion Tony Martin. This shows that a strong time triallist with reasonable all-round credentials can protect and defend themselves here, but with over 50km still remaining they may well be hoping and praying that they can bluff the opposition out of later attacks.
After the Kandel descent - which is two-stepped and much more gradual than the climb - the route turns back to uphill false flat once more and leads us into the final 30km which do not relent either - first climbing the deceptively difficult ascent of Notschrei (an evocative name which effectively means "cry for help"), whose meagre average gradient disguises that it is actually a sequence of false flat which gives way to a final 7km at almost 8%:
Notschrei is also a well-known Nordic skiing area, including a biathlon range (hey, I've done Clausthal-Zellerfeld, Oberhof, Ruhpolding and Kaltenbrunn/Mittenwald!!!), and has hosted the Deutschlandpokal in both disciplines as well as the IBU Cup. In summer it's a bit less picture-postcard, but still quite pretty. The climb crests 18,5km from the finish and then a sharp descent leads us into the final ascent to another ski centre, this time at Feldbergpass.
Again the hardest gradients are late on, but with the steepest gradients not being that tough and only around 4km long, with the time gaps likely to exist in this race by this point, this really should be incentivising attacks on Notschrei given there are no time trials left to save legs for. And with wide open, perfect roads and pristine valleys, this mid-level climb is tough enough to open gaps, but only just.
With just the final weekend to go (yes, I really did just put the last major mountain stage and the long ITT on consecutive weekdays, but you will see), this race should be unpredictable as anything, and the riders should be willing to - and able to - take risks here. This should be a good one.
GPM:
Egerten (cat.2) 3,3km @ 8,6%
Kreuzweg (cat.1) 12,3km @ 6,2%
Hohtann (cat.1) 9,3km @ 6,7%
Schauinsland (cat.1) 7,2km @ 8,0%
Kandel (HC) 11,8km @ 8,0%
Notschrei (cat.1) 13,5km @ 5,4%
Feldberg (cat.1) 10,1km @ 5,8%
The second queen stage of the Deutschlandtour features no fewer than seven serious mountains as we take on a sawtoothed monster stage in the Schwarzwald. And unlike comparatively anæmic queen stages in the region such as this one from 2005 we're going to be trying to guaran-damn-tee that we get some action here, although I guess the MTF at Feldberg in 2003 wasn't too bad. However, this one is not going to give the riders a chance to all come packed up if I can help it.
We start the stage in Bad Säckingen, a scenic border town which is on the banks of the Rhein at the point where it forms the border between Germany and Switzerland. Sitting right at the very south of the country, it serves as an excellent gateway into the Schwarzwald from the south, enabling us to build up the day's climbs, which mostly back into each other aggressively. After a rolling opening, the first climb of the day is to Egerten, which is short but steep, before leading into a second minor ascent and then a steep and technical - though fairly wide - descent. This descent leads us straight into the second climb, a longer and more conventional climb to Kreuzweg. The back-to-back nature of these climbs should help us get a strong break move especially as, following the near 50km ITT yesterday, this is the final big mountain day so any grandiose plans will likely have to be set for this stage. Being lower than the Alps, the snowy peaks and lunar landscapes of scenery above the treeline are at a premium here, so we'll be treated to some stylish, verdant countryside passing by.
The climbs continue to back into one another, however, with the next up being the strong southern face of Hohtann, also known as Rollspitz. This crest between Belchen and the pass at Wiedener Eck invariably features in my Schwarzwald stages paired with the steepest, southwestern face of Schauinsland, the Hausberg of Freiburg in Breisgau. This, despite the short length (just 7km) gets the category 1 status mainly because of the 3km at nearly 12% early on, as shown on this profile. And it also gives us spectacular views.
From Schauinsland we descend rather predictably into a city which perhaps wants to forget what cycling history it has - being at the centre of a doping investigation that involved several members of the T-Mobile squad and helped cause the Tour to disappear from German TV for the best part of a decade. Coming with 82km remaining, the city of Freiburg includes the feed zone, and then leads to the only section of flat on the route, a 20km stretch to Waldkirch, before we take on the hardest climb of the day and the last HC climb of the Deutschlandtour - the relentless slog of Kandel.
This tricky climb barely relents at all for nearly 12km which average a not inconsiderable 8%. It was last seen in racing in 2005, in the Rothaus Regio-Tour, where it was the scene of an MTT, which was won perhaps a little surprisingly in retrosepct, by former World ITT champion Tony Martin. This shows that a strong time triallist with reasonable all-round credentials can protect and defend themselves here, but with over 50km still remaining they may well be hoping and praying that they can bluff the opposition out of later attacks.
After the Kandel descent - which is two-stepped and much more gradual than the climb - the route turns back to uphill false flat once more and leads us into the final 30km which do not relent either - first climbing the deceptively difficult ascent of Notschrei (an evocative name which effectively means "cry for help"), whose meagre average gradient disguises that it is actually a sequence of false flat which gives way to a final 7km at almost 8%:
Notschrei is also a well-known Nordic skiing area, including a biathlon range (hey, I've done Clausthal-Zellerfeld, Oberhof, Ruhpolding and Kaltenbrunn/Mittenwald!!!), and has hosted the Deutschlandpokal in both disciplines as well as the IBU Cup. In summer it's a bit less picture-postcard, but still quite pretty. The climb crests 18,5km from the finish and then a sharp descent leads us into the final ascent to another ski centre, this time at Feldbergpass.
Again the hardest gradients are late on, but with the steepest gradients not being that tough and only around 4km long, with the time gaps likely to exist in this race by this point, this really should be incentivising attacks on Notschrei given there are no time trials left to save legs for. And with wide open, perfect roads and pristine valleys, this mid-level climb is tough enough to open gaps, but only just.
With just the final weekend to go (yes, I really did just put the last major mountain stage and the long ITT on consecutive weekdays, but you will see), this race should be unpredictable as anything, and the riders should be willing to - and able to - take risks here. This should be a good one.
- Aug 6, 2010
- 6,884
- 6,216
- 23,180
Just started perusing through this thread in the last week. Great work guys; some epic stages!
One I particularly like is Steven's Stage 10 : Beaufort - Col du Granon, 245km; though as others mentioned it is probably a little unrealistic for a TDF.
One I particularly like is Steven's Stage 10 : Beaufort - Col du Granon, 245km; though as others mentioned it is probably a little unrealistic for a TDF.
Stage 21 : Paris, 35km
I had some thoughts on this stage...and i stayed on the classical path of the horrendous french centralism with yet another Paris finish.
The usual boring tour in the capital is cut short, we'll just have 5 laps of the loop around the Champs-Elysées.
Alternative plans could be made for this stage, but i feel that only an ITT is a potential thing here.
And a finish anywhere else probably need a proper reference point, such as a birthday or a special event.
Anyway, sprinters deserve their share, too. If they're still in this, which might not be true for a large part of them.
Warning : The route only shows you the first lap, they'll have to do that five times.
-----
And as we reached the 21st stage, the Tour is over.
So we need a recap.
First of all, this tour was based on several infos we had on the 2016 route. The first two stage and the third stage start were already known, and we knew about a three-day stop in Andorra. One personal addition to the route was the mandatory stop in Verdun, since 1916 was a century ago.
Here are the stages, starting with the number 3 :
Stage 1 : Mont-Saint-Michel - Utah Beach (188km)
Stage 2 : Saint-Lô - Cherbourg (182km)
-Riders will have to do 3549 kilometers during these 21 stages.
-Stages 1 (Utah Beach), 3 (Le Mans), 8 (Champagnole), 12 (Orange), 14 (Carcassonne), 18 (Montauban) and 21 (Paris) have a flat finish and should be sprintly contested.
-Stages 2 (Cherbourg), 5 (Epernay), 6 (Verdun) wont create massive time differences, but gaps will be possible there.
-Stages 13 (Le Vigan) and 20 (Tulle) should see the peloton being split in a lot of groups.
-Stages 7 (Grand Ballon), 9 (Le Bourget-du-Lac), 10 (Granon), 11 (Isola 2000), 15 (Arinsal), 16 (Ax-les-Thermes) and 17 (Goulier-Neige) are taking place in the mountains, with 5 MTF.
We also have 2 ITT, Stage 4 (Orléans) and 19 (Rocamadour), for 135 km.
Alès-Le Vigan (13) will be the longest stage with 251km, whereas Pamiers-Montauban (18) will be the shortest at 127km.
Excluding the first two stages as we dont know the exact route yet, we'll have :
-18 4th category climbs
-23 3rd category climbs
-10 2nd category climbs
-19 1st category climbs
-8 HC climbs (Grand Colombier, Mont du Chat, Iseran, Finestre, Granon, Izoard, Bonette, Pailhères)
None of the 8 most-used climbs of the Tour are on the route, and i think thats overall an efficient design, respectful of the UCI rules, with a lot of trouble ahead without using the usual roads of ASO.
Sure, there is that hysterical stage 10 to the Granon, but as mentioned earlier, its purely a wish, and although it is a wish, it was designed to be customizable.
Still, i think the route could offer us a great race, as it ends some annoying ASO habits, but we all know that the riders are the main actors of the race, and that the pusillanimous manners they have are not exactly helping us.
I hope you liked it and that it gave you some leads and ideas about unexploited areas for future routes.
I had some thoughts on this stage...and i stayed on the classical path of the horrendous french centralism with yet another Paris finish.
The usual boring tour in the capital is cut short, we'll just have 5 laps of the loop around the Champs-Elysées.
Alternative plans could be made for this stage, but i feel that only an ITT is a potential thing here.
And a finish anywhere else probably need a proper reference point, such as a birthday or a special event.
Anyway, sprinters deserve their share, too. If they're still in this, which might not be true for a large part of them.
Warning : The route only shows you the first lap, they'll have to do that five times.
-----
And as we reached the 21st stage, the Tour is over.
So we need a recap.
First of all, this tour was based on several infos we had on the 2016 route. The first two stage and the third stage start were already known, and we knew about a three-day stop in Andorra. One personal addition to the route was the mandatory stop in Verdun, since 1916 was a century ago.
Here are the stages, starting with the number 3 :
Stage 1 : Mont-Saint-Michel - Utah Beach (188km)
Stage 2 : Saint-Lô - Cherbourg (182km)
-Riders will have to do 3549 kilometers during these 21 stages.
-Stages 1 (Utah Beach), 3 (Le Mans), 8 (Champagnole), 12 (Orange), 14 (Carcassonne), 18 (Montauban) and 21 (Paris) have a flat finish and should be sprintly contested.
-Stages 2 (Cherbourg), 5 (Epernay), 6 (Verdun) wont create massive time differences, but gaps will be possible there.
-Stages 13 (Le Vigan) and 20 (Tulle) should see the peloton being split in a lot of groups.
-Stages 7 (Grand Ballon), 9 (Le Bourget-du-Lac), 10 (Granon), 11 (Isola 2000), 15 (Arinsal), 16 (Ax-les-Thermes) and 17 (Goulier-Neige) are taking place in the mountains, with 5 MTF.
We also have 2 ITT, Stage 4 (Orléans) and 19 (Rocamadour), for 135 km.
Alès-Le Vigan (13) will be the longest stage with 251km, whereas Pamiers-Montauban (18) will be the shortest at 127km.
Excluding the first two stages as we dont know the exact route yet, we'll have :
-18 4th category climbs
-23 3rd category climbs
-10 2nd category climbs
-19 1st category climbs
-8 HC climbs (Grand Colombier, Mont du Chat, Iseran, Finestre, Granon, Izoard, Bonette, Pailhères)
None of the 8 most-used climbs of the Tour are on the route, and i think thats overall an efficient design, respectful of the UCI rules, with a lot of trouble ahead without using the usual roads of ASO.
Sure, there is that hysterical stage 10 to the Granon, but as mentioned earlier, its purely a wish, and although it is a wish, it was designed to be customizable.
Still, i think the route could offer us a great race, as it ends some annoying ASO habits, but we all know that the riders are the main actors of the race, and that the pusillanimous manners they have are not exactly helping us.
I hope you liked it and that it gave you some leads and ideas about unexploited areas for future routes.
- Oct 4, 2015
- 417
- 1
- 3,030
Just saying... but with a 75km time trial (the limit is 60 I think), three stages over 240km (the limit for road stages, as someone said a while ago), and a total length over 3500km, this isn't exactly true.Steven Roots said:
Still, a fun, crazy (if a bit TOO crazy) Tour. Might use some ideas for future Tour routes, too.
- May 17, 2013
- 7,559
- 2,414
- 20,680
Meh, Tours used to be 3500K not so long ago. The monster Alps stage may be a bit over the top, but overall, I like this design (except for the Jura stage). Negatives: I'm in a middle of a Tour design and had missed some of Steven's stages. Now I have to go back to the drawing board: the Verdun and the following Grand Ballon stages were just about the same .
Great job.
.Great job.
- Jun 30, 2014
- 7,060
- 2
- 0
If it was a one day event, on page 44 you find the maximal distance for ITTs in stage races, 60km, but the 2009 Giro ITT was longer, so it shouldn't really be a problem.fauniera said:
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