Race Design Thread

[bp92]

Admittedly, it's a somewhat backloaded route as far as high mountains go; I intend to finish in the Canaries after all. There are a couple big mountain stages before going there, though (including this one of course).

Vuelta a España Stage 13: El Ejido - La Alpujarra (Capileira), 224km

Climbs: Celín (7,4km @ 4,1%), Puerto Camacho (13,1km @ 7%), La Contraviesa (9km @ 6,6%), Haza de Lino (18,4km @ 7%), Capileira (22,3km @ 5%)
Now comes the first high mountain stage of the race (unless you count the País Vasco stages or the Totana stage as high mountain). It's also the queen stage, with two HC climbs along the way.
Starting form El Ejido, the riders will climb the cat.3 of Celín right off the bat, after which there's flat terrain until the foot of the first HC of the race: Puerto Camacho (until km 18,7 in the profile below).

Followed by a short flat section, then the cat.1 climb of La Contraviesa.

After this, there's a long descent back to the coast, followed by 15 flat kms, before climbing the second HC of the stage - Haza de Lino.

Then, without any flat in between, we climb up to Capileira, host of a stage finish in this year's Vuelta. The stage ends in the town (km 22,3 in the profile), instead of going up to where the stage finished this year, however.

 

[52520Andrew]

Re: Re:

Yeah that is what I have found when trying to do something in the U.S. There are plenty of climbs to choose from but linking them together can be difficult at best.

The best places to design races in the U.S. are IMO California, Colorado and even Utah, you can design really good races in those states. You still can design good races in other states, maybe you get 1 or 2 Unipublic MTF's, but as long as you can design a few decent hilly stages you can still create a good one day race. I'll post my Tour of Idaho soon, it's exactly that, a ITT, hilly stages that should be good, something for the sprinters and 2 MTF's that aren't exactly epic stages but still decent for a one week race.

Yeah those are some nice places. I am looking at California right now as a potential area I may use for my next race, may have something interesting in that department but I need to get my tour posted here before I go into that too much. Looking forward to seeing the Idaho tour, not too familiar with the geography there so it should be fun.

 

[bp92]

Vuelta a España Stage 14: Motril - Granada, 187km

Climbs: Cabra Montés (25.6km @ 4,6%), Monachil (8,4km @ 8,1%, two passes), Hazallanas (7,3km @ 9,7%).

The second weekend of the race starts with another mountain stage in Andalucía, finishing in Granada. The riders will climb the very long Cabra Montés early on the stage, before heading towards Granada and the Sierra Nevada, where they will take on the three key climbs of the stage.
The first one is the climb to El Purche, also known as Alto de Monachil, a difficult cat.1 climb.

After the descent there's some hilly terrain, before the hardest climb of the stage: Hazallanas, first used in the 2013 Vuelta as a summit finish. An extremely steep climb, with a first 5km section averaging over 11%.

Here, however, there's still one more climb left (a second pass through Monachil) before the uphill finish at La Alhambra, north of Granada.

 

[jsem94]

Great stage!

 

[bp92]

Vuelta a España Stage 15: Atarfe - Málaga, 234km

Climbs: Zafarraya (7,4km @ 4,4%), Rincón de los Reinas (3,2km @ 5,7%), El Torcal (5,9km @ 6,2%), El León (20,4km @ 4,5%)

Next comes the longest stage of the race, a 234km medium mountain stage between Atarfe and Málaga.
The first half is very hilly, with two categorized climbs and several uncategorized ones with little flat in between, before the ascent to Torcal de Antequera, after which the riders head downhill towards Málaga.
After passing through the city, they will then climb the Puerto del León, a good cat.1 climb (which, after over 210km of racing, should hurt quite a bit), followed by the descent back to the finish in Málaga.

One more stage left before the rest day.

 

[Steven Roots]

-Really interesting Deutschland Tour by Libertine Seguros. The two-week format is unusual, but in a country where really high mountain passes are not that common, its probably better that way.
And the mix of difficulties (with the cobbled stages) is a nice touch.
On a related note, i wonder, is this really a solution for future GT ? I feel that would be disappointing for a GT to cut down a week of racing, but a US or Deutschland Tour can easily be of good quality for two weeks without the need to use the same climbs every other year.


-Liked the Fuji special of the Tour of Japan by pricey-sky too. It's a great country to play with.

-Several great stages for me in the bp92's Vuelta.
The cantabrian ones are good and interesting especially considering the usual use of the area.
The stages 13 and 14 are looking very good too.

I am trying to work on a special project, an insane one, of course. Its slightly unrealistic, it will be anyway, i am still trying to adjust things in order to make a believable route, which is hard considering that i cant have long transfers, and the starting/finishing points are separated by 8 400km.

The UCI rules will be torn apart, but what are the limits for you of the acceptable ?

(For the record, i try to not go over 300km/stage, and the average right now is about 250km/stage.)

 

[bp92]

For me it's about 265km for a road stage (like this year's Giro stage to Fiuggi), 60km for TT stages.
I also try to follow the 3500km rule for full race length, but I don't mind that one too much.
(wild guess about your race: Tour of the US maybe?).

 

[bp92]

Vuelta a España Stage 16: Marbella - Cádiz, 195km

Climbs: Vejer de la Frontera (2,8km @ 6,7%)

Next comes a final sprint stage along the southern coast of Spain before taking the long trip to the islands. Finishing in the port city of Cádiz, to minimize the transfer length as much as possible.

REST DAY: Transfer to Puerto del Rosario

 

[Gigs_98]

DACH Rundfahrt stage 2: Lübeck - Greifswald (224 km)

difficulty:***

Yeah it was quite obvious that I will do a cobbles stage too when I do 9 stages in germany. Especially if you consider that Austria and Switzerland will have more than enough mountains, so simply using Germany for mountain stages too, would have been stupid. The stage starts in Lübeck in the north east of Hamburg and another very famous city in this area. The munch for the bunch is...oh wait, this isnt the Giro d'Barmaher, this is the DACH Rundfahrt... Well still its definitely worth mentioning that the best sweet ever invented comes from Lübeck and is called Lübecker Marzipan

The first 190 kilometers are more or less boring. There are two intermediate sprints in Wismar and Rostock and the first categorized climb in Kröpelin. Tbh, this bump wouldnt be categorized in any other stage but there should be a climb in the first road stage, so someone can wear the mountain points jersey on stage 3. However with the last normal intermediate sprint in Stralsund the stage suddenly gets interesting. Firstly I can imagine that the break gets caught slightly before Stralsund so one of the sprinters can already get some points for the points jersey. Secondly only a few km's after the riders passed the town an extremely long cobbled section starts. I've found different data about this street but I think this section is more or less 25 kilometers long. However the cobbles are in rather good condition and the stones are small so this isnt too brutal. The bigger problem could be the sea which is only a few k's away and could cause cross wind and the fact that this street is rather narrow (but still pretty wide for a cobble stone street). The Goldener Kilometer is also located in this section, or more accurate in the first half of the cobbles section. I hope that leads to some attacks because riders want a) the bonus seconds to get the leaders jersey and b) the points to get the points jersey.

Very hard to say how this stage would unfold. Thats mainly because I have no idea if such cobbles can cause any time gaps. On a short section of one or two kilometers surely not. On 4 or 5 kilometers probably too. But 25 kilometers is a lot. These are 10 km's more cobbled roads than in the 2014 tdf and 12 more than in the tour 2015 and all that in one section without any good tarmac between. I think something like this doesnt even exist in france, and I also think it has never been ridden in a pro race, so there is just no evidence how it would be ridden. However if there is crosswind or rain, it would be a huge surprise if nothing happens. The Wind-Rain combination can already cause time gaps without cobbles (like in this years tour) so there should be a guarantee of carnage. We also shouldnt forget that the riders who are on the top of the gc after stage 2 are good TT'ers and most of these should be good on cobbles too. The motivation for them to get the leaders jersey is maybe another factor which makes action more likely

Greifswald:

 

[Gigs_98]

DACH Rundfahrt stage 3: Greifswald - Berlin (204 km)

difficulty: *

Stage 3 and already the easiest stage of the whole race. Tbh, its anything but special that the easiest stage of a gt comes rather early, because the sprinters still have all their energy and the winner is normally really the fastest man of the race. Especially a race in germany needs pure sprint stages because germany normally has very good sprinters, so its just fair to give these riders some chances. As you might know I'm normally not a fan of such panflat stages but the point I just mentioned is reason enough to make an exception. I think its also an obvious choice to let such a stage end in Berlin because a) the fact that a german win is likely should cause many spectators b) because Berlin should host a stage anyway c) you don't have many possibilities in Berlin to make the finish more difficult. Maybe Teufelsberg would be an option but that is such a small bump that it wouldnt be much more interesting than a simple bunch sprint. On the way from Greifswald to Berlin there are there intermediate sprints in Neubrandenburg, Neustrelitz and Oranienburg. Moreover there is once again a Goldener Kilometer, this time only 17 k's before the finish. I just didnt want to make it to near to the last normal intermediate sprint and the Goldener Kilometer is slightly uphill, which should make it more interesting. I'm pretty sure many of you don't really like my way of building the stages with so many intermediate sprints and bonus seconds, but I just like the idea for a big fight for the leaders and points jerseys.

In Berlin the race finishes in front of the Brandenburger Tor, after the riders have passed the Fernsehturm, the Rathaus and the Berliner Dom, so we should get some good pictures from the last kilometer of the stage.

Brandenburger Tor:

 

[bp92]

Vuelta a España Stage 17: Puerto del Rosario - Corralejo, 34km (ITT)

We're at the Canaries now, as the last week of the race begins with a mid-length time trial in Fuerteventura. The route goes along the eastern coast of the island, starting from Puerto del Rosario and heading north towards the resort town of Corralejo, passing through its stunning sand fields along the way. Beware of wind, because it will probably be a key factor, too.

 

[ray j willings]

 

[jsem94]

Wow. What a race. You've put so much time and effort into this, I can't believe it. That has to be the greatest race ever designed.

*facepalm*

 

[bp92]

Vuelta a España Stage 18: Santa Cruz de Tenerife - Pico del Teide, 164km

Climbs: Izaña (34,4km @ 6,1%), Cañadas del Teide (8,6km @ 3,5%), El Retamar (28,3km @ 6,5%), Teide (6km @ 4,8%).

It's time for high mountains again, as the race moves to Tenerife for a relatively short yet brutal mountain stage.
Starting from Santa Cruz de Tenerife, the riders get 15km of warmup hills along the coast, before taking on the brutal Puerto de Izaña. 35km of continuous climbing, with a 24km section averaging 7%.

After Izaña, the riders will go through a 30km hilly section at over 2000m above sea level, including the shallow ascent towards Cañadas del Teide. An otherwise unremarkable bump, that becomes noteworthy due to being the highest peak of the entire race.
Then, the route heads down Teide's southern slopes, with over 30km of continuous descent, before turning around and heading back up a different road for the second HC of the race: El Retamar (from km.24 in the profile below). Slightly shorter than Izaña, but with a brutal km at 11%, and finishing only 13km away from the end of the stage. The ascending route rejoins with the road used to come down Teide about 12km away from the summit.

After this, there's only one last climb left, heading back over the southern side of Cañadas del Teide before finishing at the cable car station south of the Teide peak.

(I'm not sure how plausible would it be to take the route back over itself like this. I decided to let it in, since they pretty much did the same with Navacerrada in the stage to Bola del Mundo in 2012, and with Morcuera-Cotos this year. There's a ~30km loop to allow time for the caravan to get through, 12 of which are uphill, but I don't know whether there's any regulation on the matter.)

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

I laughed way to hard at this

 

[bp92]

Vuelta a España Stage 19: San Cristóbal de la Laguna - San Cristóbal de la Laguna, 196km

Climbs: Los Realejos (2,2km @ 8,9%), Las Portelas (10,3km @ 6,2%), Mirador de Masca (3,7km @ 11,4%), El Tanque (5,6km @ 9,6%), Fuente del Bardo (10,1km @ 4,4%), La Orotava (6,4km @ 6,4%), Ravelo (6,4km @ 7,3%).

If Stage 18 featured neverending yet not too steep climbs, Stage 19 features the diametral opposite: very short, yet extremely steep climbs.
Starting and ending in San Cristóbal de la Laguna, the stage starts with some hills around the north coast of Tenerife, before turning south and taking on the moderately difficult Las Portelas... followed by the first big wall of the stage, Mirador de Masca.

After descending back to the coast, the riders will then take on an even more infamous wall: the climb to El Tanque through Tierra del Trigo. 5.6km at 9,6%... but with a first 3km averaging nearly 13%.

Then the stage heads back towards San Cristóbal, taking a more difficult route with two categorized climbs, before hitting the last climb of the stage, Ravelo.

The steepest section is at the middle of the climb, with a killer km at 16,3% (not shown in the profile, between kms 2 and 4), followed by a more manageable ascent until the summit, after which there's only a flat-ish 13km section until the finish.

 

[jsem94]

Unfortunately the Canary Islands mean a logistical nightmare for any race. Great terrain though.

 

[TromleTromle]

Great concept.
+1 for the daring apporach

...But it does not quite feel like the vuelta without a lot of obscure MTF walls

 

[bp92]

Well, the San Cristóbal and País Vasco stages had a lot of obscure walls...
Just that they're not MTFs...
Am I doing this wrong?

Vuelta a España Stage 20: Las Palmas de Gran Canaria - Pico de las Nieves, 145km

Climbs: El Garañón (25,7km @ 5,8%), Las Nieves (21,5km @ 7,1%), Cruz de Tejeda (7km @ 7,1%), Las Nieves (8,8km @ 7,5%).

We move now to Gran Canaria, to take on a final mountain stage. It's a short one, with only 145km... but with 2 HC and 2 cat.1 climbs, it's a tough one.
The climbing starts right off the bat with the long grind to El Garañón. 25km at 5,8%, with the steeper parts coming at the end. The climb is followed by a very long, very irregular descent towards the southeast, as the riders head towards Ingenio, where they will take on the stage's hardest climb (km 23 to 1,5 in the profile below).

The climb to Pico de las Nieves from the southeast is a nasty one. Long and irregular, with a nasty middle 4km averaging over 11% (the hardest of them averaging 14%). It's 45km and two climbs away from the finish, but if someone wants to get back a lot of time, they will have to try something here.
After 20 downhill kms, the riders will take on another wall - Cruz de Tejeda, with a 3km ascending false flat section before two brutal kms averaging over 13%, followed by a shallower section at the top (up to km 6,1 in the profile below).

Then, there's only one last climb left, to the highest peak of the island, Pico de las Nieves (from km 8,5 in the profile below).

A short, yet brutal stage. The final stage is a hilly one to Las Palmas, so it's also the last chance for climbers to make big gaps.

 

[BigMac]

Re:

Give this man a strava badge.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

Deutschland Tour Stage 2 Altenburg - Meerane (167km) (Sun)

Climbs:
Steiler Wand von Meerane x2

Sprints:
Meerane
Meerane

Feed Zone:
Meerane

Today we start at the large(ish) town of Altenburg, a small way south of yesterday's finish in Leipzig. The riders will head to the outskirts of Glauchau. From here they will head north west to Meerane, where the first KOM of the race will meet the riders. The steep cobbled street through the town of Meerane, of the name of the Steiler Wand von Meerane. This steep cobbled climbmaxes out at 12% has been used in many races which many of us posters (Libertine) have named. They will complete 5 laps of a circuit and finishing on it on the 6th time up the thing. On the first, fourth and sixth(and final) times a KOM will be at the top, on the second and fifth time a prime will take place and for the third time up it, a Feed Zone will be on the top just after the finish.

Altenburg:

Meerane:

 

[Gigs_98]

DACH Rundfahrt stage 4: Potsdam - Halle (215 km)

difficulty: ****

The third completely flat stage in a row, but still the second very interesting one. Once again the riders have to face cobbles, and have to suffer on the slopes of the Hölle des Ostens. The stage starts in Potsdam, in south west of yesterdays finishing town Berlin, exactly in front of the Schloss Sanssouci. We probably wouldnt have coverage right from the start but if we have the pictures would be absolutely beautiful.

After the start the riders will head southwestwards and pass the intermediate sprints in Wittenberg and Dessau. The former is very famous, because Martin Luther started the Reformation there, so the city plays an important role in the origin of one of Europe's biggest religions. The first part of the race with the two intermediate sprints are rather boring but that should change 73 kilometers before the finish, because on these 73 kilometers 19.200 meters are on cobbled roads. That maybe doesnt sound that much, but I have to remind you that in 2014 and 2015 the cobble stages of the tdf both had clearly less cobbles. At the first moment this also seems to be only the second most difficult cobbles stage of my tour, considering that stage 2 had more cobbles and there was only one section so there was no good tarmac in between. However the cobbles here are harder and the roads are more narrow, so its more likely that the bunch splits in two or more peaces during one of the cobble secitons. Once again the difficulty of this stage also mostly depends on the weather. Generally the race is already wide away of the sea, which makes strong wind less likely, but ofc. rain is still possible and should cause pure carnage.

To be honest, all the cobble sections I used in this stage are from the side http://www.hoelle-des-ostens.de. Hölle des Ostens is an race in this area which has only one main focus: Cobbles. Since Libertine has already done some very good cobbles stages in Deutschland it shouldnt be a secret anymore, that Deutschland has some absolutely great options for that. I would love to see a pro classic in this area, during spring, but I doubt that would happen, so we still have to daydream about stages from the Race Design Thread . Although there are pictures from the race on the website, unfortunately its impossible to find out from which sections the pictures are. That means I can't tell you how the specific sectors are and how bad the cobbles are, but I can still post some pictures of the race here, just as an impression how hard this stage would be.

I'm lovin it . The decisive pave sector starts in Kütten and ends in Nehlitz after 3.7 kilometers of cobbles. After this stretch of cobbles there are only two more, very short sections on the final 14 kilometers, which means that if a rider wants a serious gap, that one has to be made there. However, if the bunch is very small its still possible that something more happens in this last, cobble-free part of the stage.
The finish is in Halle, a typical beautiful german city:

ps: I know that Libertine's Deutschland Tour also had a cobble stage finishing in Halle, but while I especially use the pave in the east of Halle, he used the sectors in the west. Moreover its just the by far most obvious choice to use this city as the finish. Its like making a mountain stage in Deutschland using the Roßfeld Höhenringstraße

 

[bp92]

The two races in Germany at the same time are kinda confusing . Cool stages though (particularly the cobbled one to Halle).


Might as well wrap up my Vuelta, anyway...

Vuelta a España Stage 21: Maspalomas - Las Palmas de Gran Canaria, 138km

Climbs: Agüimes (4.4km @ 4,7%), Tafira (6,7km @ 4,5%), Las Majadillas (3km @ 4,6%, five passes).

The race ends with a hilly stage in Gran Canaria, finishing with 5 laps around a circuit in the island's largest city of Las Palmas. It's not an entirely straightforward stage, though; the approach to Las Palmas features two categorized climbs, and the 13km circuit features a remarkable climb itself. Might see some attacks in the climb by stage hunters trying to upset the sprinters.


So, that's it for my Vuelta. Suming it all up:
3477km of racing.
102km TT (84 individual, 18 team).
5 summit finishes (Naranco, Urkiola, Alpujarra, Teide, Las Nieves) + 2 uphill finishes (Salamanca, Granada).
7 HC climbs (Puerto Camacho, Haza de Lino (stage 13), Hazallanas (stage 14), Izaña, Retamar (stage 18), Garañón, Las Nieves (stage 20).
17 cat.1 climbs (Cobertoria, El Cordal (stage 4), Monte Oiz, Urkiola (stage 8), El Castillo (stage 9), Collado Bermejo (stage 11), La Contraviesa, Capileira (stage 13), Cabra Montés, Monachil (twice) (stage 14), El León (stage 15), Masca, El Tanque, Ravelo (stage 19), Cruz de Tejeda, Las Nieves (stage 20))
18 cat.2 climbs.
22 cat.3 climbs.

Some well-known and neverused/underused climbs in the mainland stages, and some brutal mountains for the Canaries of course. Lots of medium mountains too (northern Spain is a gold mine for those), and enough flat ITT kms to compensate that. Only three straightforward sprint stages (Benidorm, Almería and Cádiz), meaning that sprinters might want to skip this one.

Hope you enjoyed it .

 

[jsem94]

Completely unrealistic and a logistical nightmare, but the route itself is great.

 

[barmaher]

Brilliant, Ray J Willings. Made me laugh.

Thanks for the name check, Gigs. And some very nice stages.

Also, I loved that Vuelta ending in the Canaries.