Race Design Thread

[Broken_Leg]

Stage 9 [Sunday] : Romans sur Isère – Le Bourget du Lac
207 km – Mountain
Climbing : 5025 m


Col de Montaud (6.9 km @ 7.1%)
Col du Coq (12.8 km @ 8.2%)
Col du Cucheron (4.1 km @ 8%)
Col du Granier (9.2 km @ 4.8%)
Col de l’Epine (9.7 km @ 7%)
Mont du Chat (10.7 km @ 9.4 %)

We’ve already had mountain stages and a lot of climbing, but today the peloton will enter the Alps, with the first of three Alpine stages (tomorrow being the rest day, we can hope that they won’t slow play this stage).
We start at Roman sur Isere, a few km NE of where we arrived yesterday. The first 50km are flat alongside the Isère river. The bunch will leave the valley and cut the Northwesternmost corner of the Vercors through the col de Montaud, which will help enable the break of the day if it hadn’t been done before. The descent will bring the riders back to the Isere valley and Grenoble and the St Ismier.
There the riders will turn left and enter the Chartreuse through the first of the two big climb of the day : the Col du Coq. With a top 100+ km from the finish line, it won’t create GC battle, but it will weigh in the legs for the rest of the day, and may isolate a leader whose domestiques are not strong climbers.

The beginning of the descent is quite technical and on a very narrow road but it doesn’t last long.
Thereafter the riders will head towards the northeast through the Chartreuse : they will first tackle the col du Cucheron and then the col du Granier (from its easiest side). None of which is really difficult, but does not give room to breathe and relax.
From the Granier, the bunch will go down towards Chambery where the intermediate sprint is located, before going west up the col de l’Epine.
A few km of rolling terrain will bring the riders at the foot of the last climb of the day – last but definitely not least :

On the profile above, the riders will only tackle the climb from km 9 : a hell of a climb in perspective. Anyone not in top form will suffer mightily, and gaps may be large.
Finally, it’s not a mountain top finish, and after the climb, there remain a very fast descent towards Le Bourget du Lac where the arrival is located.

Wine of the Day :
Mountain stages are not the easiest to find vineyards around. But here we have one : on the western foot of the Mont du Chat lie the Bugey area, which produces mainly light white wines (Chardonnay, roussette).
Those wines are not well known, but their quality has been improving quickly over the last years (recognized with a “Appelation d’Origine Contrôlée” label in 2009).
Thus for today I chose a Chardonnay from the Caveau Bugiste :

 

[52520Andrew]

Re: Stage 7

Tour of California Stage 7 Stockton - Mt. Diablo 172.8 km

Our 7th stage starts where we finished in Stockton where we continue our way west over the the intermediate sprint in Byron before things start to get a bit more interesting.

We get to Morgan Territory Road for the first climb. It is a fairly narrow road but I don't think it will be ridden too hard. I see it as more of a platform for the break if there isn't an established one yet and a means to wear the riders down somewhat. I don't know if it is worth the second category climb but it should encourage people to go after the points in the KOM competition at least with a first category climb in there as well.

After the climb we descend and get some more flat kms before going up Mt. Diablo via the North Gate road. We will not go all the way up the climb however as the race will turn off when the North Gate Road meets the South Gate road and descend before looping around to climb the North Gate Road again. Like Morgan Territory Road, I don't think this is necessarily worth the cat 1 classification but hopefully it encourages a strong break to go after the points.

Profile for the climb

This time when we climb up North Gate Road, we will go all the way up to the summit where the GC riders will have another chance to gain back some time that may have been lost in previous stages. The climb is not terribly hard but the finish hits some pretty tough grades as the road splits in 2 on the final push to the summit and this should be guaranteed action at the least.

The views from the summit are always a plus as well.

What makes this stage unrealistic?
This is another one that should be fine. The Tour of California has finished at the summit of Mt. Diablo a couple times now so we should be good here. This section will return to relevance.

Up next we gear up for the first ITT of the race which should be quite fun.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

While Broken_Leg is going for a killer stage, I'm... not.

Stage 5: Pau - Langon, 149km

GPM:
Côte de Bouelho (cat.4) 1,8km @ 5,0%

As sure as July rolls around every year, so a stage beginning or ending in the Béarn métropole (loosely-speaking) of Pau must emerge. It's simply part of the scenery in the Grand Boucle, more so than possibly any other city this side of Paris. Generally, in recent years this attractive city in the country's south west has been the départ for major mountain stages - from 2014's Hautacam stage (itself similar to 2008's), the 2011 Lourdes stage mentioned in the last stage, the 2010 mountaintop finish of hateful friendliness and last year's Cauterets stage. This isn't always the case, however, such as in 2010 when it was also the stage finish of another of those horrible reverse-stage catastrophes (I linked the profile in my last stage).

However, this route is not a huge Pyrenean odyssey, for that would be excessive so early in the race, so instead we visit Pau in much the same way as it was used in 2007 - as the exit point after the Pyrenées that starts the next stage, transitioning northwards away from the mountains. That 2007 stage was won by Daniele Bennati, though not in the way you might expect - from a small breakaway which was allowed to go as it was deep into week 3 and the main leaders were resting between the mountains and the final TT, the less versatile sprinters had gone home, and the Italian was low enough in the points classification that the more versatile ones in contention for that competition weren't bothered about letting him go. This stage is less likely to go to a breakaway, but it should be similarly uneventful from a GC point of view.

Indeed, this stage - a pure pan-flat stage at not even 150km in length - has been placed here specifically to make the preceding stage more interesting; as there is only one (1) Pyrenean mountain stage in my Tour route, I don't want anybody soft-pedalling it as even if they're not in form because they want to peak for the tail end of the race, there's little risk of having to pay for it the following day. So although this one will probably see very little of interest, it at least has a reason to be in the grand scheme of the Grand Tour. And with the number of points that will have been on offer yesterday (indeed, unless somebody wins most of the climbs in stage 3 and also takes the Tourmalet, the rider that wins on Luz Ardiden is likely to hold the polka dots for a number of days; what will remain to be seen is whether the big guns allow the break to gain time in that stage so as not to have to carry the jersey so early in the race as they may not find shipping it to a breakaway so easy with the kind of timegaps that are opened in the first four stages here and the need for sprinters' teams to take advantage of the opportunities they're given since they won't have already banked up their successes in the first few days as is normally the case) it's hard to see the solitary cat.4 climb in the stage producing much interest among polka dot candidates, so this will probably see the usual TV breakaway and chase - which is why I've put this stage midweek rather than where there will be any expectations (are you taking note, ASO).

So what does that mean? Well, it's a short transitional stage through the Gascon countryside. Not too close to the coast, but given how flat the region is, there's a slight - but only fairly slight - chance that the wind can play a role in the stage. This is one for enjoying the helicam more than anything else, with the biggest towns en route still being scenic idylls like Villeneuve-de-Marsan and Aire-sur-l'Adour. Of course, one of the joys of flat stages of the Tour de France (there are very few) is the scenery and cultural history of France, and one of the key parts of this are the traditional churches and castles; here, just after entering the Gironde, we pass one of the most famous of the latter, the Château de Roquetaillade, with just a few kilometres remaining.

Until this point, the new leader's team will probably have had little trouble keeping the breakaway on a leash, as they will no doubt have been helped by the sprinters' teams, who at this point will take over in earnest en route to setting up their fastmen. There are precious few opportunities like this for a pure sprinter in the vein of Marcel Kittel in my route; especially given the stages to date, you would expect them to already have accrued quite a sizable deficit in the points classification to riders like Sagan, Bouhanni, Matthews and Coquard, and so if they want to compete in the maillot vert competition they will really need to make the most of the chances like this; this is the easiest stage apart from the Champs-Elysées in the entire race.

The finishing town of Langon is pretty small by Tour standards - it has around 10.000 inhabitants in its extended municipal area but only around 7.500 in the town itself - but has a couple of important functions, historically as the final stop-off before Bordeaux in the route to the Atlantic from the south and east along the Garonne, and secondly as part of the logistics and assembly routes for the Airbus A380 planes in use all over the world. It was also the terminus for one of the first ever car races, a 48km route from Bordeaux to Langon in 1896 which was won by Abel Bord in one of the two Peugeots to complete the race (only six cars finished, two Peugeots and four Panhards) in just under two hours of driving, which is remarkable to look upon now - if the péloton took two hours to do 48km you'd assume it must have been a bunch of juniors racing up the Col d'Iseran or something.

Langon has also hosted the Tour de France twice, both for the same type of stage as mine (in fairness, to arrive in Langon you don't have much choice from the south as the Gironde area is very flat, but a stage starting there could go into the hills around the Cahors, Brive and Figeac regions). In 1976 it was the finish of a semitappe and the start of a subsequent semitappe midway through the third week; both semitappes were won by Freddy Maertens. Its last time in the Tour was in a stage which ran the opposite way to my stage, from Langon to Pau, with the stage being won by then Belgian national champion, Eric Vanderaerden - will this be therefore a stage that is for a sprinter-cum-Classics-hardman from Belgium to keep the tradition (Jürgen Roelandts, it is your time!)? The most recent cycling connection that the small town has is that Direct Energie's Thomas Boudat was born here, a converted trackie and hotly-tipped young French rider who won the Classica Corsica last year and has shown potential as a durable sprinter - who unfortunately just happens to be in the same team as Bryan Coquard, who he otherwise shares a lot of characteristics with.

So yes: this one will be boring, Kittel will probably win, but at least we can look at some interesting architecture en route.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Stage 6: Libourne - La Rochefoucauld, 209km

GPM:
Côte de Tamarelle (cat.4) 2,3km @ 5,3%
Côte du Pic (cat.4) 1,8km @ 7,1%
Côte d'Écuras (cat.4) 2,1km @ 4,9%
Massif de l'Arbre (cat.3) 4,3km @ 4,3%

After an informal day off for the main contenders in stage 5, we have what ought to be a fairly straightforward stage for them but one where they will need to remain alert as there is the opportunity for a rider with the bit between their teeth to gamble and gain a bit of time here; certainly the sprinters' teams will need to be on their guard as we have a stage which, although rumbling through the mostly flat western part of France, should give the classics men, puncheurs and stagehunters plenty of chances to make this one count for them, and I can see some interesting racing breaking out in the latter part of the stage. Certainly if none of the sprinters' teams fancy it there could also be a very interesting battle to be in the break of the day, as there are a few different types of rider who might see this as a stage they can make count.

The market town of Libourne is a wine-making town, one of the most significant in the Gironde, lying on the north side of the Garonne just a short drive from Langon (although most teams will more than likely stay in nearby Bordeaux). It has a well-preserved medieval centre and as you can see above, some very pretty architecture that really fits in with the geographical-cultural appeal of Le Tour. Its most recent appearance in Le Tour was, like so many of the places we've visited thus far, in 1992 in that route starting in San Sebastián and going on that now rather quaint Euro-Tour design (at this point, multi-national GTs that head far from their homelands are becoming the norm rather than the exception...), when it hosted a 64km team time trial (remember those?) which was won by Panasonic, although none of their riders were relevant enough to the GC to dislodge Pascal Lino from the lead of the race. Its only other appearance was in 1957, when it hosted the main final week time trial, which was won by Jacques Anquetil, because it was 1957 so of course it was, and then the start of a 317km (!!!) stage to Tours in the penultimate stage, a stage which was won (as was the subsequent Tours-Paris stage) by André Darrigade.

Of course, 300+km rouleur stages are both not realistic anymore and not as likely to have the same effect as they did back then when roads were often of inferior quality to nowadays, the quality of gregarii was lesser and the race formulae were less tried-and-tested. So instead I've aimed to make a stage that can potentially be a banana skin otherwise, by giving a 210km rouleur-puncheur stage with a few small climbs as we weave inland into the low-lying hills of the Dordogne and Charente regions but not far enough to tough the hills of Corrèze and the edges of the Massif Central. The stage is definitely more hilly than anything typical of the Tour de la Gironde or the Tour du Poitou-Charentes (the home races of the stage start and finish respectively). However, the longest part of the stage being through the internationally-renowned Dordogne region, following the river Isle, means that this one is going to be one of the most scenic stages of the entire race, and should give plenty of helicam fodder for sure as we pass through beautiful town upon beautiful town, adorned with château upon château, cathedral upon cathedral, bridge upon bridge, gorge upon gorge. This will be a visual treat.

At the halfway stage we pass through the region's capital, Périgueux, with its UNESCO-inscribed cathedral and Roman interior, and after that we move away from the river and into the low-lying hillside, at which point it starts to get a bit hillier. Although only three climbs are categorized in the second half of the stage, there are a number of false flat ramps, uncategorized climbs at 3% or so, and so on that mean this will not be as easy to find a rhythm in as riders may think. The steepest of these is the punchy Côte du Pic, an ascent of a little under 2km in length that rises out of the traditional French village of Saint-Pardoux-la-Rivière, however at over 50km from the line it likely won't see decisive moves. An aggressive pace here may help set up the intermediate sprint, after some technical corners and then on some uphill false flat at Nontron, however, as - like I said before - for the most part the people putting pressure on Sagan's domination of the maillot vert here are going to be the likes of Matthews and Bouhanni, not the likes of Kittel and Cavendish, who they may want to burn off on the climb to be able to collect more points in the sprint. The run-in to the intermediate sprint could be potentially compared to an easier version of the Tropea finish in the 2011 Giro when Oscar Gatto and, of all people, Alberto Contador surprised the sprinters.

This false flat sustains for a few kilometres then subsides, then we have two short ramps that aren't long enough to merit categorization (maybe in a traditional first week of the Tour they might get categorized in order to be able to hand the jersey out, but as ever once there have been some significant climbs the lesser ramps and repechos no longer need to offer points for the competition. This takes us to the last two climbs, which aren't especially steep but will offer a platform for attackers along the lines of the 12th stage of the 2010 Giro when Pippo Pozzato won after an attack group got away late including Vino, Basso, Nibali and Scarponi, or the 13th stage of the 2010 Tour which was anticipated as a likely sprint with the battle for the maillot vert meaning the pace on the final climb was expected to be hellish as Petacchi and Hushovd's men looked to distance Cav, only for this plan to be derailed because Cav was climbing better than anticipated, he was a better climber in those days anyway, and because VINO. The first of the two climbs is around 2km at 5%, cresting 25km from the line, and the crossing of the Tardoire to begin the climb also signals our exiting the Dordogne to enter Poitou-Charentes. A rolling, gradual descent then takes us to Montbron, from which we climb up to the crossroads at the top of the plateau on the Massif de l'Arbre. Is it an especially steep or challenging climb? No. But it does crest just 10,5km from the finish and it does include a kilometre at 7% or so which can potentially give a platform for attackers, whether it be out of the break or out of the bunch for the stage win, counter-attacks to tiring moves, or those GC men more adept at punchy racing and changing up and down the tempos quickly looking to distance the less explosive riders in a surprise move like those described above.

The finish of the stage is a fast and mostly very straight descent to the small town of La Rochefoucauld, known for its eponymous château, a fourteenth-century landmark on the Tardoire that stands as arguably one of the most dramatic and scenic in the whole country. The town has been designated as a "village étape", meaning that despite its small size, it is an important travellers' stop, providing a full range of high quality goods and services for those passing through. These villages often provide rest stop facilities in an altogether more civil and charming small-town setting, and its position close to a nodal route linking Limoges (and thereby the north-south Paris-Toulouse route) and Bordeaux (and thereby the southwest) means it is able to garner a steady stream of income to maintain the quality of services required for this status. In a nice piece of symmetry for the day's stage as well, Philippe Buisson, the mayor of Libourne at the time of writing, was borne in the town.

This is quite a small stage host, but there have been much smaller in the past (Jausiers...) and less significant towns have hosted the race in the recent future. With the current renovation and rebuilding of the town square, certainly bringing Le Tour in to showcase the tourist-ready nature of the town centre and the awe-inspiring château, along with taking advantage of the village-étape status to boost local business, is viable, and the town also offers potential for some much more interesting terrain in a stage than much of the Poitou-Charentes region is able to manage (although the last time a race finished a stage here, the 2005 Tour du Poitou-Charentes, they came from the opposite direction so the stage was completely flat, and Danilo Napolitano won...), and once more, it's hard to predict who would win this. Certainly if a group comes to the line together, many of the more one-dimensional sprinters will be gone, but some sprinters will remain. But will they be able to contain the attacks on the final climbs? You know at least some of the national teams will try something even if some of the bigger guns elect not to chance their arms. How about the likes of van Avermaet who never want to die wondering? Gilbert even? Or will the fact that many of the GC men have had to go uncharacteristically deep early in the race in the San Sebastián and Luz Ardiden stages mean that they let the break roll on ahead, in which case the composition of that break will become a key factor in shaping the stage - will we see top level experienced stage hunters like Chavanel, Luís León Sánchez or TV Tommy (whose home region is nearby) looking to add to their palmarès or will somebody young or unexpected break out? If this was stage 6 and we'd had a fairly flat first week, some of these options would seem a lot more far-fetched than they now do because of the early Pyrenées...

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

I don't think I can handle this! Libertine has used the Tourmalet!!!! What next? Cheering on Sagan?

DEATH BEFORE DISHONOUR

 

[Broken_Leg]

Rest Day [Monday]
Stage 10 [Tuesday] – Gap-Barcelonnette
176 km – Mountain
Climbing : 4230m



Col d’Allos (16.3 km @ 6.7%)
Col des Champs (11.6 km @ 7%)
Col de la Cayolle (21 km @ 6.8%)

After a transfer to Gap and a rest day, we’re still in the Alps (second of three days in the mountains), but a bit more to the South. Today, the distance and number of climb are smaller than on stage 9, but each of the three cols is a major one – two cat 1 and one HC, and the whole is a famous triptych with three cols above 2000 m.
The riders start South from Gap and then will turn left to follow the Durance river and the Lac de Serre Ponçon, before starting a progressive uphill going in the Ubaye Valley.

After the intermediate sprint at Les Thuiles (it’s possible the sprinters’ team try to keep the bunch grouped, as it’s the only objective sprinters can have today), the peloton will start the first climb of the day : the long and regular Col d’Allos.


If there were no breakaway before, here they will go – no GC team will chase that early, and many will want to try for the stage win or the polka dot jersey.
After a 20 km descent through Allos (the side which was climbed last year), the riders will turn left at Colmars, and start the second difficulty of the day, the Col des Champs. It has seldom been used in recent years in the Tour, probably because the road is very narrow and sometimes of poor quality on the climb (actually, I think that tackling the col the other way round would be too dangerous : the eastern side’s asphalt is far better, even if the road is as narrow).
The riders will welcome the fact that in july’s heat almost all the climb is in the forest

After a technical descent (if some good descenders want to attack, they may gain some time over less skilled riders) to St Martin d’Entraunes, the ‘only’ difficulty remaining is the Col de la Cayolle. ‘Only’ one difficulty, but a 20+ km, 6+% kind of difficulty.

A bit less regular than the two previous climbs, there are however no terrible ramps (max 10.5%). It’s a long grind uphill, on averages slightly higher than on the previous cols – around 7% (the initial part of the climb lessens the average %).
From the top at 2326m (still not the highest pass of this Tour), there remain exactly 30 km to the finish in Barcelonnette, 25 of which being the descent, here again on a narrow road, but a bit less technical than the previous one.

With the top of the last climb at 30 km to go, I’m not sure the GC contenders will go all out today – especially as tomorrow is a mountaintop finish. Thus the break has a good chance to make it. But we could see a war of attrition, and perhaps attacks in the descent.

Wine of the Day :
None (that I can think of)

 

[railxmig]

At last you decided to go with Tour de France. I have a Giro del Trentino in works but for now i'll wait untill Libertine will end his Tour. Stages 5 and 6 are interesting from the design point. I'll need to check out those finishes and the area in particular. Rest of the stages are forgettable and half of them belong to Pais Vasco which of there is too many allready. I mean the Basque and east Pyrenees are kind of overused. I hoped for a discovery in the main Pyrenees but there's only Luz-Ardinen. I tried to work with Les Agudes (opposite to Peyragudes) or Goulier-Neige but without any bigger success.

 

[mikii4567]

I'm working on a TdF, meanwhile, but that too will wait until Libertine finishes . I have an interesting summit finish ready (that's never been used before, like all of the summit finishes I will use) in the main Pyrenees, quite close to Luz Ardiden.

 

[Le Blaireau_13]

Re:

I'm working on a TdF, meanwhile, but that too will wait until Libertine finishes . I have an interesting summit finish ready (that's never been used before) in the main Pyrenees, quite close to Luz Ardiden.

Col de Tentes / Port de Boucharo?? I certainly think a mountain top finish should be possible there, even by ASO-standards.

 

[mikii4567]

Re: Re:

I'm working on a TdF, meanwhile, but that too will wait until Libertine finishes . I have an interesting summit finish ready (that's never been used before) in the main Pyrenees, quite close to Luz Ardiden.

Col de Tentes / Port de Boucharo?? I certainly think a mountain top finish should be possible there, even by ASO-standards.

All will be revealed .

I do think that's true, but that's not what I'm using .

And also, my race will have cobbles (hint, hint)

 

[SKSemtex]

Re:

I don't think I can handle this! Libertine has used the Tourmalet!!!! What next? Cheering on Sagan?

Yes. He has already given him yellow jersey and three stage wins out of six.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The Tour by its very nature is more conservative in route than many other races, however, and the pacing of my race is an innovation in and of itself; if ASO in reality were going to have just one stage in the Pyrenées, you can more or less anticipate that the clichés will be out in force. I have not used many famous Alpine climbs either. 21 stages of undiscovered terrain isn't easy, and I've tried to keep this to a route which is innovative in many ways but is still realistically achievable by the present race committee and uses a few of the regular paying hosts. Hence why I avoided the western Pyrenean monsters, but also stuck to the major cities in the Basque start (which also explains the choice of Luz Ardiden too, as there are three stages between the major Basque cities, then one from the biggest French Basque city to the Basque Mountain).

SKSemtex, which is the third? The stage to Gasteiz and the stage to La Rochefoucauld would seem fairly safe bets as genuine Sagan territory, and obviously unless he does a '95 Jalabert Luz Ardiden is not. The Langon stage is not hard enough to drop Kittel imo. Do you think he's a good enough puncheur to win on Monte Igeldo against the likes of Gilbert, Alaphilippe, Valverde and co, or do you think he'll win the prologue? There are quite a few more stages Sagan would like to come in this race, however.

 

[Red Rick]

Broken Leg, in a race where Arcalis is HC, Col d'Allos is totally a HC. Very nice stage though

 

[Broken_Leg]

Re:

Broken Leg, in a race where Arcalis is HC, Col d'Allos is totally a HC. Very nice stage though

Hello,
you are right, but I kept it as cat. 1 from a polka dot jersey perspective, because I already have many high cat early in many stages. And since I don't like KOM winners who are no climbers but manage to get points early in the stages and disappear in the climbs which count, I want to keep my number of early HC low.

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

I'm working on a TdF, meanwhile, but that too will wait until Libertine finishes . I have an interesting summit finish ready (that's never been used before) in the main Pyrenees, quite close to Luz Ardiden.

Col de Tentes / Port de Boucharo?? I certainly think a mountain top finish should be possible there, even by ASO-standards.

All will be revealed .

I do think that's true, but that's not what I'm using .

And also, my race will have cobbles (hint, hint)

Cirque de Troumouse?

 

[52520Andrew]

Like the stage 20 from fauniera using none other than the climb itself. Things should absolutely explode on the Madonna del Colletto if they haven't already beforehand with all the climbing and a stage like that to conclude the race should be a lot of fun. Was seriously considering a stage very similar to this with the Giro I am currently planning but I will have to make due with something else.

Also a big fan of the Tourmalet - Luz Ardiden combo, really wish we could see more of it in the Tour along with Marie Blanque, Aubisque, Hautacam

 

[mikii4567]

Re: Re:

Cirque de Troumouse?

Good guess, but no .

 

[railxmig]

Re:

The Tour by its very nature is more conservative in route than many other races, however, and the pacing of my race is an innovation in and of itself; if ASO in reality were going to have just one stage in the Pyrenées, you can more or less anticipate that the clichés will be out in force. I have not used many famous Alpine climbs either. 21 stages of undiscovered terrain isn't easy, and I've tried to keep this to a route which is innovative in many ways but is still realistically achievable by the present race committee and uses a few of the regular paying hosts. Hence why I avoided the western Pyrenean monsters, but also stuck to the major cities in the Basque start (which also explains the choice of Luz Ardiden too, as there are three stages between the major Basque cities, then one from the biggest French Basque city to the Basque Mountain).

SKSemtex, which is the third? The stage to Gasteiz and the stage to La Rochefoucauld would seem fairly safe bets as genuine Sagan territory, and obviously unless he does a '95 Jalabert Luz Ardiden is not. The Langon stage is not hard enough to drop Kittel imo. Do you think he's a good enough puncheur to win on Monte Igeldo against the likes of Gilbert, Alaphilippe, Valverde and co, or do you think he'll win the prologue? There are quite a few more stages Sagan would like to come in this race, however.

I'n not sure if this first paragraph was a rensponce to me. For me it looks like it, if it's not then i'm sorry for misunderstanding. I have no problem whatsoever with your routes in France. It's just that you did (or i would even call lost) 4-5 stages in a country that in this thread is extensively coverated (like Vuelta) by you or other posters. With your cycling and geography knowledge i hoped for something interesting from the design point while in Basque Country there's almost nothing interesting left. Giro is an exception because Italy is big and there are roads everywhere. Thankfully rest of the stages in France, apart from Luz-Ardinen (to which i have no problem) are mostly in towns i never looked at or never heard of so it's much more interesting to me to look up them for eventual future and play with eventual routes. Actually as i'm looking at it now it looks more and more like a whining about overusage of Basque Country which ultimately might be true.

Glad that you used Tourmalet. The point of Tourmalet is to not be a legbreaker (but in Luz-Ardinen scenario it can be important - Ullrich attack on Armstrong in 2003) but to be a genuine HC climb somewhere in the middle of a stage. It ensures that with use of other climbs the particular stage is actually a proper mountain stage. Even if softpedalled it can still left a small impact on the finish. Like for a guy of Valverde quality outside his 2015 TdF or 2009 Vuelta form the presence of Tourmalet with other climbs like Aspin and Peyresurde might be more important that it looks in the first place. The only small problem with Tourmalet i have is it's linking with other climbs outside Luz-Ardinen could be a bit better. Of course this paragraph is more of a general thought because Libertine propably will correct me legitimately and correctly on my lacking cycling theory knowledge.

 

[52520Andrew]

Re: Stage 8

Tour of California Stage 8: San Francisco Pier 30-32 ITT 39.5 km

Here is the profile for the stage although it doesn't really do it justice

This is most of the route but there are some areas that are not accurate due to streets being one way

This stage could very well decide the race and it is far from the traditional time trial. There will be flatter sections that aren't too bad but there is going to be a lot of sections that look like this.

Yup, for this Sunday stage, we get ourselves a San Francisco ITT and not one for the specialists. This is one for the road bikes.

The start and finish for the stage will be at pier 30 - 32 which is a large vacant lot used for parking for the most part. It also provides a nice backdrop with the San Francisco Bay Bridge almost immediately behind it. It should be a nice place for things to center around as I am anticipating a large crowd in the area and this can be a pretty good setting for people to come up and see the teams and the race at work.

The stage itself starts on the Embarcadero before turning up 3rd street after passing the home of the San Francisco Giants at AT&T Park and takes a trip through downtown San Francisco as 3rd street turns into Kearney Street. We then turn onto Clay street before another turn onto Montgomery Street passing the Transamerica Pyramid which is the tallest building in San Francisco.

Things now start to get interesting as we slowly start to ramp up in gradient as we get closer to Telegraph Hill. Montgomery Street really ramps up and we are going to take it until we have to turn left onto Green Street where the gradient really picks up for half a block before we hit the top and start a very steep descent and then turn onto Kearney Street for a flat block before another really steep block. At the top of this block, Kearney Street turns to the left and becomes Filbert Street. This should be a fun section and it is only the intro of what is the come.

We now descend Telegraph Hill using Filbert and follow that for a few blocks before turning on Taylor Street and then quickly turning onto Greenwich Street which we follow until it dead ends a few blocks later as things ramp up towards Russian hill. We then take a turn on Leavenworth and get back on Filbert Street in time for this

Yes we are hitting that famous block of Filbert Street where the gradient hits 32 percent and it should be a painful block for the riders. It really only goes up for half a block before leveling out for the second half but it will not be fun either way. We then turn onto Hyde street at the top of Russian Hill for 2 blocks before hitting another famous street, this time on the way down.

Descending Lombard street should be a ton of fun to see and for an added bonus, it is a brick street. At the bottom of the street is the first time check before we make 2 left turns and take Chesnut Street to Larkin Street which we follow before descending down Union and the Leavenworth before taking Filbert the other direction(which is why we took Greenwich Street for a few blocks as opposed to just taking Filbert all the way up). We use the same intersection that is used when we turn up the steep part of Filbert but we should be able to divide it up and make it work.

Basically, this all sets up for a 29 percent ramp up Jones Street before another steep ramp at 26 percent. This should be another very painful stretch.

Jones between Union and Filbert which hits 29 percent gradient

After these steep ramps, we continue another block on Jones before turning onto Vallejo Street for four blocks before turning onto Polk Street and then onto Clay Street a few blocks later which we follow for another few blocks.

Then we turn onto Mason street for another steep block before descending a few blocks and turning onto Geary Street where we turn right twice and climb up again using Taylor Street until we get to California Street and pass the Grace Cathedral. We turn back down after a block and find our way onto Pine street where we go for a good bit before the street turns and becomes Masonic Avenue and we make our way to Golden Gate Park where we pass the California Academy of sciences and the second time check.

Plaza where we have the second time check

After that, we exit Golden State park and head up into Presidio where we go right next to the Golden Gate Bridge before the final time check at the Presidio Main Post. The riders should have a couple nice looks at the bridge and the cameras will have some even better ones along with the Presidio itself with the batteries lining the coast.

After this we hit the last big series of ramps as we go up a few via Baker Street before descending via Broderick Street and then up again via Divisadero Street and the down Scott Street. We get a couple steep ramps via Steiner street before descending via Fillmore. Then it is up a 26% ramp on Webster before descending back down where we take Filbert to Polk and take that north to Beach Street. From there we have a couple more ramps and then we get to Bay Street which we follow until we get to the Embarcadero which we take to the finish line.

There are a lot of very steep streets in this course and gradients of over 10 percent should not be hard to find on a stage like this but there are also a couple flatter areas like the Golden Gate Park and Presidio sections along with the Embarcadero. While the deisels probably have done pretty well with the first MTF in Onion Valley road which I would imagine will result in big gaps, this will hopefully get the puncheurs back into the mix and throw a wrench in things. It will probably take a good bit of bike handling to get through this course as well and time will be up for grabs for riders courageous enough to take it.

What makes this stage unrealistic?

There are a few things that would have to happen for a stage like this to happen. First, you would need the city of San Francisco to ok this and there would be a good amount of traffic closures. I tried to limit things as much as I could and the busiest road to be impacted would be 101 which would be crossed twice but it would take some work to get everything straightened out there.

We also have the big problem with the trolley tracks. There is a lightrail track that we cross once along the Embarcadero right at the beginning that could throw the start and finish off. Basically my thought for the start and finish is to have the riders have room to slow down by going up Brannan Street from the Embarcadero and that intersection will be where the riders cross over the lightrail tracks as they start. The riders would start probably at the end of the pier and pretty close to where they cross so hopefully they can see if any lightrails are coming and make sure things are clear before sending riders off. There is also a station right next to the crossing so hopefully this helps with things.

There are also handful of perpendicular crossings with the famous city trolley tracks which could require some coordinating and could be risky. There are also 2 sections where we are on a street parallel with trolley tracks. My strategy there would be to just have the race take place along the side of the tracks as there should be space and both sections are at the top of big ramps but it would be interesting to see how it would all work.

While the trolleys are cool, they would pose a few problems on a stage like this

Overall though I wanted to show off a San Francisco Time Trial even if there are issues as it would be a ton of fun to see and it was a lot of fun designing the route and looking through all the steep streets in San Francisco.

There is a well deserved rest day after the stage as we transfer to the northern end of the state and Crescent City.

 

[Valv.Piti]

"You'd have to have been living under a rock and hiding away from the Tour de France to an extent Echoes can only dream of to not be aware of it."

Hahahah

 

[Broken_Leg]

Stage 11 [Wednesday] Embrun – Isola Col de la Lombarde
138 km – Mountain
Climbing : 4303m



Col de Vars 19.4 km @ 5.7 %
Col de la Bonette 23.3 km @ 6.7 %
Col de la Lombarde 21.5 km @ 6.9%

I know it’s extremely similar to this year’s Giro stage 20, but believe it or not, the first draft of my Tour in general and this stage in particular predates the publication of the Giro’s course. And since we had good racing in the Giro, I didn’t see any need to modify my stage. There is one main difference however, in that the finish line is at the top of the Lombarde. (the only possible change without a heavy redesign of the overall route would be a last climb to Auron, but this climb is a bit short with respect to creating gaps given the long descent before). Anyway ….

After yesterday’s stage, the riders went down the Ubaye valley (in the team buses) to Embrun alongside the Lac de Serre Ponçon, where they will start today, for another trilogy of climbs.
This stage being the shortest one, the first MTF and being followed by less demanding stages, it should be a perfect setup for a big GC battle. The riders will spent some time today above 2000m, which could be a factor.
The peloton will first head to the northeast following the Durance towards Guillestre, where the first climb of the day will start : the Col de Vars. The descent will bring them back to the Ubaye valley (upstream from yesterday’s finish line) and Jausiers, for the intermediate sprint.

There starts the climb to the Bonette, the highest point in the race. While it does not feature any very steep ramp, it’s still a monster – 24 km at 6.6%, 12 of which being above 2000m is not a climb to be despised.

The long descent and descending false flat will probably preclude any GC attack, but we can expect some strong tempo which will put any rider not on top in difficulty.
After a dozen km in the Tinée valley, the riders will finally turn left at Isola for the ascent of the third climb of the day : the col de la Lombarde. Being one of only two MTF, it will most probably feature a GC battle – the question being : will it start at the foot or at 500m to ?

The climb is once again of the regular kind, only the foot being a bit steeper than the average. If the riders decide to animate the race and not to wait the last few hundred meters, there is a potential for significant gaps.

Wine of the Day :
None (again)

 

[Broken_Leg]

Stage 12 [Thursday] : Isola – Antibes
158 km – Hilly
Climbing : 2350 m



Col St Martin 14.5 km @ 6.7%
Côte de Vence 3.4 km @ 5.8%
Col St Antoine 2 km @ 8%

Today the peloton will leave the mountains and head for the Mediterranean coast in a short stage (158 km). The sprinters will welcome the return to flat country – but the French Riviera is not that flat, and if today’s stage may end in a sprint, it will have to be earned, as I chose to put two banana skins under their wheels.

The first one is the fact that we won’t part with the mountains without one last significant climb : after starting from Isola at the foot of the Lombarde and descending the Tinée valley, the peloton will climb the col St Martin to rejoin the Vesubie valley. With an average of 6.7% over 14.5 km, it will put the sprinters and their team in a world of hurt.

From the top, the gruppetto will be able to start the pursuit to bring the sprinters back in the lead. If this stage is similar to the Revel stage of Tdf (with early Envalira), there are two differences : St Martin is steeper, and the top of the climb is closer to the finish line (126 km here againt 173 in the Revel stage).
A long descent in the Vesubie valley will bring the riders to the foothills of the Alps overlooking the Mediterranean, where they will travel on rolling terrain (with 2 small cat. 4 côtes).

They will then descend to reach the coast at Cannes and head for Antibes. But here is the second banana skin : if the grupetto has been able to come back and rejoin the head of the race, there is the steep (but short) col St Antoine at 10 km to go. At 8% over two km, it should not get rid of the more versatile sprinters, but it should derail their trains.
A quick descent will bring them back at sea level and to Antibes where the finish line is located.

Wine of the Day :
Today’s route went straight in a blank spot between the main Provence wines in the west and its easternmost AOC around Nice. But since we had two days in a row without wine, I don’t want you to go thirsty and I chose a wine of the day not to far from our road.
In this eastern area is indeed a very small (130 acres) AOC : Bellet. It produces both reds and whites. The reds are full-bodied wines, while the whites are light and fruity.

 

[Tonton]

Wine of the Day :
None (that I can think of)

Tough one indeed: the closest wine appelations would be Die and Chatillon, 20-30km west of Gap. Close enough to the course, and a truly distinctive sparkling. Clairette de Die. Cuvee Chamberlan, by UJVR would work IMO.

 

[Tonton]

I'm getting in the TdF mood even more with these two designs . I won't pile up on LS: Tourmalet, huh ? Sorry I couldn't help it . Coming from the west for a finish in the area, not much else to do, tho.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I can't imagine there being enough space for Le Tour at the Col de la Lombarde, even compared to Tourmalet in 2010 (I assume the race caravan will have to stay at Isola 2000 to account for it), but if not either Isola 2000 or Sant'Anna di Vinadio are obvious substitutes to prevent the stage being impacted (I know, the latter makes it even more like the Giro stage) too much.

While you're moving away from the high mountains, however, I'm... quite a long way from them.

Stage 7: Ruffec - La Roche-sur-Yon, 179km

GPM:
Côte de la Mothe (cat.4) 2,2km @ 4,0%
Côte de Saint-Hilaire (cat.4) 1,1km @ 5,2%

The final weekday stage in week 1 is a flattish stage moving from Poitou-Charentes to the Vendée, and the first of a few stages that pay in some way an homage to the Coupe de France, that season-long tournament of one-day races throughout France - most of which are in the flat-to-hilly northern and western halves of the country - that allow the ProConti and Continental teams in the country to make the necessary money to get by as well as offering interesting mixed fields with some of the better Belgian Continental teams blending into the group and ensuring a constant stream of UCI points in .HC and .1 races for the French, as well as creating a few forum cult heroes, such as the mighty placement hero Baptiste Planckaert, and allowing Bryan Coquard to pad out his victory count while the other two of the terrible trio of French sprint kings, Nacer Bouhanni and Arnaud Démare, are busy on the World Cup.

Before we get to that, however, we start off in another ville d'étape on the main route from Paris to the southwest through Bordeaux and Bayonne to the Spanish border, the charming small town of Ruffec. With 7.000 inhabitants or so, it's the third largest town in the Charentes and the most important town on the route from Poitiers to Angoulême, a key historic route for market trading, and for this purpose as well as its proximity to the border between Occupied France and Vichy France it was an important town for La Résistance. Its most well-known cycling son is the obscure 70s pro Daniel Barjolin, whose most important victory was the splendidly-named GP de la Tomate, which he won twice in his mid-30s.

Shortly after the start of the stage we swap the Charentes for Deux-Sèvres, another of the western areas of France characterized by flat to rolling terrain; the only categorization-worthy climb in the first half of the stage comes shortly into the stage, but it's a mainly false flat grind to the Côte de la Mothe. This leads to a more undulating middle part of the stage where, though there are no categorized climbs, there is a lot in the way of rolling up-and-down and short digs and bursts that could have an effect come the end of the day.

The most interesting town we pass through at this point is Saint-Maixent-l'École, proud owner of - very rare in France - a British style red telephone box, a gift following the twinning with an English town and a legacy of a noticeable British expat community; the town is also famous for its military academy, and also for many years as the local seat of Ségolène Royal, the Socialist candidate for the Presidency in 2007 (eventually losing to Nicolas Sarkozy) and the first woman to run for the position in France. The town was the last commune in Deux-Sèvres to host the Tour, when Pablo Lastras won from the break in an insanely fast flat stage of the 2003 Tour, as deep into week 3 many of the leading sprinters had already vacated the race; the veteran Abarcá domestique outsprinted Carlos da Cruz, Daniele Nardello and the recently deceased David Cañada.

As you can tell from the fact that the Tour hasn't been there since 2003, this is not a key cycling area. Normally the Tour when it is heading through the west will detour inland towards Limousin and instead choose to run stage to places like Limoges and Châteauroux. However once we pass over the rolling terrain we leave Deux-Sèvres and enter somewhere that very much is a major supportive cycling area, the Vendée. This predominantly flat area of western France is the home of one of the country's most storied cycling teams, the team that currently exists under the name of Direct Énergie, but has run since the early 90s in various forms, professionally since 2000 in the form of Bonjour!, Brioches-la-Boulangère, Bbox-Bouygues Télécom and perhaps most famously as Europcar, thanks to the historic and, for the French housewives at least, romantic quest of Thomas Voeckler to defend his maillot jaune deep into week 3 of the 2011 Tour. The team remains tied to the élite amateur team Vendée-U to this day.

Said 2011 Tour was the last time the Tour visited the Vendée region in earnest, when the region hosted the Grand Départ in a road stage finishing on the hilltop finish of Mont-des-Alouettes which was won by Philippe Gilbert because it was 2011 so of course it was. It also saw the start of what became a pattern for the whole race, crashes sorting out the GC. The region also hosted recent Grand Départs in 2005 (in Fromentine, with a TT won by Dave Zabriskie), and both 1993 and 1999 at Le Puy du Fou, a medieval theme park which ironically includes an attraction called "The Secrets of the Lance" (really). Both times it hosted a prologue won by the Tour's eventual winner (Indurain and nobody, respectively), and in 1999 it was followed by the notorious stage when Alex Zülle crashed on the Passage du Gois, a time gap which eventually settled the GC.

With 37km to go the riders pass through a well-known cycling city, Chantonnay. It has only hosted Le Tour once, as the start of an early stage of the 1997 race (Cédric Vasseur won the stage, which finished in La Châtre, and took the maillot jaune), however it has hosted the national championships three times in the last decade, and though he is from the Vosges region, it serves as the adoptive home of French cycling hero, love-hate figure in the péloton, relentless attacker and tongue-waving camera hog, Thomas Voeckler, for whom a boulevard in the town was named in honour of his win in the 2010 nationals - the same road which features today's intermediate sprint.

In 2006, Florent Brard won the race, which led to this rather swish kit, besting a three-man group of Voeckler, Rous and Moreau. Voeckler outsprinted Christophe le Mevel in a two-up sprint in 2010, before in last year's race rank outsider Steven Tronet of the Continental-level Auber 93 squad took home the prize in an interesting final few kilometres. Pauline Ferrand-Prévot won the women's race by a country mile because of course she did (no offence meant, Audrey).

You will note that none of those races ended with a sprint. While the stronger field of Le Tour means that's more likely, it does open up the possibility of more interesting outcomes in the intermediate because of the rolling terrain nearby. After passing through Chantonnay, however, we go over the nearby climb of the Côte de Saint-Hilaire, and enter the terrain used in a notable .HC race held nearby, the Tour de Vendée.

We actually carve up the profile slightly to bring the côte a little closer to the finish (it is with 29km remaining), however it's only a small climb and shouldn't cause any great troubles to all but a climber so dismal they should have missed the time cut by now. After all, apart from the Langon stage this is one of the easiest of the race. The other reason for that is that the Tour de Vendée finishes with a lap of a very short circuit around La Roche-sur-Yon which would simply not be safe in the Tour; in a one-day race such short circuits are fine as riders who are lapped can simply be pulled off the course as they're no longer a relevance to the results, but in a stage race, preventing riders a few minutes down from finishing a stage at the end of week 1 could have seriously dramatic consequences later on. So no finishing circuit here. The city of around 110.000 inhabitants is famous for its Napoleonic-era architecture and as the centre of the Vendée, with many sporting facilities.

The city's main claim to fame for cycling fans is as, of course, the finish of the one-day race described above. It has seldom hosted Le Tour, so this will be an unusual diversion for the race. Introduced in 1980, the Tour de Vendée's first winner was Jean-René Bernaudeau, who now of course is the manager of the Direct Énergie team that is based out of the city. It can be won by small groups but tends to be won in a sprint, despite a range of late attacks as per the 2015 edition which admittedly was helped in that by terrible weather owing to the late-season position in the calendar. Fonseca had a couple of seconds' gap in 2014, for example, whereas Laporte in 2015 and Bouhanni in 2013 were typical sprint wins. It's not a truly typical sprint, however, being on a slightly uphill drag which reaches its maximum of 7% near the line. This is not a proper uphill sprint though, and don't be fooled into thinking that this will be one for sprintier GC men to get involved in either. Bouhanni is a good man for a finish like this, as well as Coquard as long as he is well protected enough; you can expect his teammates to be pinging off the front all over the place in front of the team's home crowds here - plus of course perhaps the nearest finish in recent Tour history to this would be the Boulogne-sur-Mer stage in 2012 where Peter Sagan outsprinted Edvald Boasson Hagen.

Kittel's going to have to sort out some climbing legs to be durable enough for the maillot vert here, that's for sure.