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I kinda doubt it. Beille is here only to maybe have some impact on the Llívia stage, as on its own it's not that difficult. I assume any debris from dirt roads will be mostly cleared before the stage. Also there won't be any dirt sections if the weather is awful. I assume Beille will be taken softly ending in a 5-10-man group sprint. I also assume Alps are the main place for the climbers to do some damage. The 3rd week is more towards bike handlers. A lot of these guys can handle things like Paris-Roubaix or Strade Bianche pretty well so i guess a 7km of dirt roads is not that menacing.Guybrush said:railxmig, you killed 3/4 of the peloton with those stages :surprised:
I decided against Goulier-Neige because:Forever The Best said:I don't like Plateau de Beille MTF that much in the last week of a GT, railxmig. Goulier-Neige is not that far away and suitable for attacks before the last climb. It would be a 1C climb:
And to not make the stage very short you canstart in Lannemezan and climb Mente before Portet d'Aspet and you have a stage like this:
https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/viewtrack/hd/79132
The Llivia and Villeneuve sur Lot stages are very innovative, especially the first one and these stages after Goulier-Neige MTF can be perfect.
@fauniera Great stage with a nice murito finish. Very excited to have what you have next in store. But your images of Ermita de la Trinitat don't work because they are probably imgur.
railxmig said:I decided against Goulier-Neige because:Forever The Best said:I don't like Plateau de Beille MTF that much in the last week of a GT, railxmig. Goulier-Neige is not that far away and suitable for attacks before the last climb. It would be a 1C climb:
And to not make the stage very short you canstart in Lannemezan and climb Mente before Portet d'Aspet and you have a stage like this:
https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/viewtrack/hd/79132
The Llivia and Villeneuve sur Lot stages are very innovative, especially the first one and these stages after Goulier-Neige MTF can be perfect.
@fauniera Great stage with a nice murito finish. Very excited to have what you have next in store. But your images of Ermita de la Trinitat don't work because they are probably imgur.
1. Like Beille, Goulier-Neige is just lazy as almost everybody in this forum did it at least one in their lifetime and Beille is much tougher. But at least Beille seems to be not that liked here, and apparently i have some sort of a hipster in my blood.
2. Nobody will attack before Goulier-Neige, because most of them will be scared of that Llívia stage day after. That's why Beille should work better, because it will ensure some pain to the legs, even when softly taken while Goulier-Neige is just a regular cat. 1 climb. A really nice one, but i don't think it would work well with this specific scenario.
Goulier-Neige was very interesting a couple of years ago, but i've seen to many combinations with Latrape and Agnes while Beille doesn't seem to be very liked here. What i wanted to do is to have a finish on Monts-d'Olmes after Montségur but that would be too easy to handle as both climbs are nothing special and they're hardly linkable with anything. If it was like an introduction stage to Pyrenees then i would definitely go with Monts-d'Olmes as a leg warmer to much tougher couple of stages afterwards. Maybe i should go with Monts-d'Olmes and then start the next stage in Limoux, i will need to think on that once more. I hope i explained my thinking process well enough.
Indeed, the Llivia stage is great but it definitely won't frighten the riders in the previous stage which means that attacks on Agnes are very much possible in Goulier Neige stage.Netserk said:I don't really get why you think the Llívia stage is so frightening that it'd block the previous stage. It has two cat 1 climbs 110 and 40km out and a cat 2 in the finale.
In the Alpes on the other hand, you have some really proper mountain stages, and I'm not sure how much would happen on the first stage after the rest day, but we should see plenty of fireworks on CdF and Iseran.
The Iseran stage has also altitude as a big factor. And also there is a small climb between Mont Cenis and Iseran.railxmig said:@Netserk & @Forever The Best. I don't know how good climbers are on dirt. On Finestre it doesn't seem to have much of an impact but the entire stretch is at 7-9%. Maybe i've panicked too much. If you want, you can change Beille into Goulier-Neige. I still would prefer something else (less explored) though. i allready borrowed the Val d'Isère stage and i personally wouldn't call it as proper. Iseran isn't that difficult (slightly harder than Risoul) and while Mont-Cenis is massive, there are like 15km of flat between it and Iseran.
Wait a sec... Goulier-Neige? I thought of Guzet-Neige. Goulier-Neige doesn't have any space available and it seems to be largely abandoned. I do however have a small crush on Les Monts d'Olmes, even if it's too easy and not really linkable with anything other than Montségur.
Vuelta is way smaller than Tour, but then i've abandoned the realism long time ago so i should not really care. Yes, the Iseran stage has a lot of over 2000m stretches, but nowadays most of the climbers and their lieutenants are used to high altitudes thanks to the training camps.Forever The Best said:The Iseran stage has also altitude as a big factor. And also there is a small climb between Mont Cenis and Iseran.railxmig said:@Netserk & @Forever The Best. I don't know how good climbers are on dirt. On Finestre it doesn't seem to have much of an impact but the entire stretch is at 7-9%. Maybe i've panicked too much. If you want, you can change Beille into Goulier-Neige. I still would prefer something else (less explored) though. i allready borrowed the Val d'Isère stage and i personally wouldn't call it as proper. Iseran isn't that difficult (slightly harder than Risoul) and while Mont-Cenis is massive, there are like 15km of flat between it and Iseran.
Wait a sec... Goulier-Neige? I thought of Guzet-Neige. Goulier-Neige doesn't have any space available and it seems to be largely abandoned. I do however have a small crush on Les Monts d'Olmes, even if it's too easy and not really linkable with anything other than Montségur.
I think Goulier Neige can host a Tour stage finish if places like Bola del Mundo can host Vuelta stage finishes.
I never was a person, who thought vertical meters really mattered that much. Yes, i also hope that, because it's 3rd back to back mountain stage it will generate bigger gaps than it usually could do. Also, Mont-Cenis & Iseran combo is obviously not my idea so i'm thanking to whoever came up with it first.Netserk said:Plus the whole stage has a lot of vertical meters, not to mention that it comes as the third back-to-back mountain stage. In this design I think the stage is great as it is, but in a different Tour, it'd be great to have Tignes as the finish after Cenis-Iseran.
Indeed. Tignes after Cenis-Iseran combo would be great in a different Tour, but the stage is great in this design because of the reasons you mentioned.Netserk said:Plus the whole stage has a lot of vertical meters, not to mention that it comes as the third back-to-back mountain stage. In this design I think the stage is great as it is, but in a different Tour, it'd be great to have Tignes as the finish after Cenis-Iseran.
railxmig said:@mikii4567, i wonder if a collab would be in place as i think we have simillar ideas. How are you with central Europe (Poland, Chech Republic and Slovakia)? I won't help you much with Italy right now as i'm studying Moravia. From Lecce i only remember there was this architectonic style called barocco leccese. Also if your next stages are in puglia you'll probably stumble into this dude Frederick II a lot.
Interesting choice of finish. I would personally choose Matera as HTF and the stage wouldn't need to loop around so much but i guess it wouldn't work with the next stage. Also, Comune di Martina Franca is an interesting name for a climb . When i was doing Giro i used the IGM maps to get the names, but it's more of an army map and it's very wonky to work with. Maybe someone else has better maps to work with. Click on "Immagini" (a photos icon) on the bottom panel and then double click on whatever map you want. For now i recommend IGM maps (250.000, 100.000 and 25.000 scale).mikii4567 said:Giro d'Italia
Stage 3: Brindisi -> Mottola
166km
Hilly stage
The first stage that may have some sort of importance, after the ITT. Whilst it may not see any GC action, as there is an MTF coming up (!), it may see some interesting fighting in the breakaway, especially on the final climb.
The start is in Brindisi, still in Apulia but more north. Another Roman city, it has a large castle with massive square towers and another cathedral, this time constructed in the 11th-12th century. The riders head west, into the mainland, and cross it completely, hitting the west coast at the Traguardo Volante in Taranto. This is an important commercial and military port, and is known as the "Spartan City", as it was the only colony founded by Sparta.
From here, it gets a 'bit' more tough. There are three cat. 4 climbs in the mid-section of the stage, and also there is the second Traguardo Volante, in Martina Franca. This municipality has a beautiful stone old town, and prominent Baroque Gates. The final climb is 2.7km long and averages 8.2%, and brings us to the finish in Mottola, a town inhabited since prehistory, and important because of its location on a hill. The Gulf of Taranto can be clearly seen. The town's economy now relies mostly on agriculture and food production.
Like I said, not likely to be very decisive, but can deliver an interesting battle towards the end.
Start: Brindisi, Via Liberta (km 0 is on the SS7 Via Appia, near Sant'Elia)
Finish: Mottola, Via Carlo Goldoni
Intermediate sprints: Taranto, Martina Franca
Feed zone: San Simone
Climbs:
Comune di Martina Franca (4th Category, 400 m, 2.9 Km at 6.0%, Km 87.8)
San Simone (4th Category, 462 m, 5.9 Km at 3.5%, Km 105.4)
Palagianello (4th Category, 239 m, 3.2 Km at 5.1%, Km 157.3)
Mottola (3rd Category, 343 m, 2.7 Km at 8.2%, finish).
railxmig said:This Comune di Martina Franca hill seems to be in the middle of nowhere. There seems to be a masseria (farm) nearby called Franzullo if i'm looking in the right place.
mikii4567 said:Giro d'Italia
Stage 5: Brienza -> Benevento
217km
Medium-mountain stage
The third hilly/medium-mountain stage in a row, this time not a HTF/MTF, but nonetheless still likely to be an interesting challenge for the breakaway. The start is in Brienza, known for being the home of the ruins of Caracciolo’s Castle. After the start, there is a long descent and then the cat. 3 climb of Caggiano, followed by a descent and false flat, before the cat. 3 Scorzo climb. After this, there's a flat section, with the two intermediate sprints, in Eboli and Battapaglia. We then have a cat. 4 climb before the difficulties of the day. The cat. 2 climb of Valico della Carbonara isn't particularly steep, at 5.3%, but is nonetheless 14.4km long. After this we have Monte Terminio, which is also 14.4km, but is even less steep, at 4.8%. So whilst these climbs aren't going to be very selective, they can nonetheless present an interesting challenge, and tire some legs.
The descent is broken in half by a cat. 4 climb, and then we have cat. 3 - Montefredane. Again, not too testing. The final climb is also cat. 3 - Colle di Campore. 5.2% means that once again we're not going steeply uphill, but can still challenge some. The finish is in Benevento, a Roman city with an 8th century Church (Santa Sofia). We've seen an end there in 2016, won by Greipel, but there the stage was almost completely flat. Maybe an interesting challenge for a breakaway, and a rest for the GC favourites.
Start: Brienza, SS95 (km 0 is on the SS95)
Finish: Benevento, Corso Garibaldi
Intermediate sprints: Eboli, Battapaglia
Feed zone: Maggese, (ommited from the profile by accident, but it would be after the Carbonara descent)
Climbs:
Caggiano (3rd Category, 802 m, 4.8 Km at 7.7%, Km 19.7)
Scorzo (3rd Category, 463 m, 2.3 Km at 8.7%, Km 44.9)
Montecorvino Rovella (4th Category, 305 m, 1.8 Km at 5.6%, Km 86.7)
Valico della Carbonara (2nd Category, 967 m, 14.4 Km at 5.3%, Km 106.7)
Monte Terminio (2nd Category, 1248 m, 14.4 Km at 4.8%, Km 132.4)
Sorbo Serpico (4th Category, 775 m, 1.3 Km at 4.5%, Km 156.1)
Montefredane (3rd Category, 602 m, 6.4 Km at 4.9%, Km 175.8)
Colle di Campore (3rd Category, 714 m, 10.2 Km at 5.2%, Km 197.7)
Yes, oh boy, yes. I actually think I may have been too sadistic with the next stages.railxmig said:Your next post suggests a rather busy couple of days so i guess such a breakaway stage should be fine.
Thank you!Tonton said:I really like mikii's design so far !.