Race Design Thread

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

Yeah, unfortunately it's about the only non-straightforward sprint finish in my race :redface:

You can include some hills in the last part of your stage 7, though the stage would have been super long with the proposition with same start and finish locations. I would have probably done that, since I usually make very hard races.
Alternative idea for Tournus-Macon (the stage would become around 248 km though)
https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/viewtrack/hd/136243

Then again, your one is only the 2nd pure flat stage of the race so probably it is fine.


PS: Any news about the library, Libertine?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Stage 8: Saint-Étienne > Aix-les-Bains - 190.5km - high mountains
https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/viewtrack/hd/133565

Inspired by this year's stage 9, I've designed a stage over Mont du Chat as well. This stage is nowhere near as tough though, with Mont du Chat being the only HC climb. The goal wasn't for this to be the hardest stage, not even close. My thinking was that riders might be less tired and more likely to try something on Mont du Chat. The riders will face a climb straight away, the 2nd category Col de la Croix-de-Chaubouret. The first part of this climb is the most difficult and it'll be important to warm up before the stage, but overall the climb isn't that hard. From there, it's a long way to the next categorized climb, a small 4th category hill. Then, the Col du Mont Tournier quickly followed by Mont du Chat. Of course, after this year's Dauphiné and Tour de France we all know the climb as well as the descent. No finish in Chambéry though, but in Aix-les-Bains, so the final is 4km shorter than in this year's Tour.

The climbs:
Col de la Croix du Chauboret (2nd Category, 1197 m, 17.8 Km at 3.8%, Km 18.3)
Montrevel (4th Category, 611 m, 3.1 Km at 4.7%, Km 110.6)
Col du Mont Tournier (2nd Category, 822 m, 10.5 Km at 5.7%, Km 147.4)
Mont du Chat (Hors Catégorie, 1485 m, 9.7 Km at 9.4%, Km 168.0)

Final 5km

Col de la Croix-de-Chaubouret

Col du Mont Tournier

Mont du Chat

Col du Mont Tournier climb

Col du Mont Tournier descent, looks like the season changed at the summit! Mont du Chat looming in the distance

As we know, both the ascent and descent of Mont du Chat are very steep with narrow roads and hairpins

Finishing city Aix-les-Bains, next to the Lac du Bourget


Stage 9: Valence > Mende - 225km - medium mountains
https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/viewtrack/hd/133589

The last stage before the first rest day is a long medium mountain stage, finishing with the Côte de la Croix Neuve/Montée Laurent Jalabert. None of the climbs are very hard, but with the length of the stage it could become a race of attrition if it's raced hard. The first climb is the Col de l'Escrinet, which isn't very hard. From km 100 on, it's up and down to the finish.

The climbs:
Col de l'Escrinet (2nd Category, 783 m, 11.5 Km at 4.0%, Km 53.5)
Côte de la Tranchée de Malons (2nd Category, 851 m, 15.8 Km at 4.5%, Km 118.3)
Col de la Banlève (3rd Category, 621 m, 4.5 Km at 5.2%, Km 133.6)
Col de la Croix Berthel (2nd Category, 1077 m, 8.7 Km at 5.3%, Km 158.2)
Col de Montmirat (2nd Category, 1016 m, 6.8 Km at 7.5%, Km 201.9)
Côte de la Croix Neuve (2nd Category, 1033 m, 3.5 Km at 9.1%, Arrive)

Col de la Croix Berthel

Col de Montmirat

Côte de la Croix Neuve

Col de Montmirat

Côte de la Croix-Neuve

Finish in Mende

 

[Valv.Piti]

That Mende thing is a beauty. One of Alberto's go-to climbs, wouldn't you agree? Of course that could change with Galibier coming up....

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

That Mende thing is a beauty. One of Alberto's go-to climbs, wouldn't you agree? Of course that could change with Galibier coming up....

Back in the day, yes. If it was a km or 2 longer I think it'd be the best possible climb for him in his prime.
Not sure how well he'd do these days.
Also, is it my imagination or was the finish in Paris-Nice always at the top, while the finish in the Tour is a km further?

 

[Forever The Best]

Nice stage, and 225 km should hurt the legs a lot. Though I would've gone Pre de la Dame-Croix de Berthel-Col de Finiels to make the stage even more harder and then the Mont Loubiere before tackling the other side of Croix de Neuve (2,5 km at %11,2) and descend to Mende.
The stage would probably be 243 km that way. Here's the last 125 kms:
https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/viewtrack/hd/136452

Or just doing Pre de la Dame instead of Banleve and same last 85-90 km or so as yours, with Croix de Berthel-Montmirat and the known side of Mende with a finish in Airport.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

No, that's not your imagination, that's the truth. The Tour requires a bunch more space for all the trappings of the race caravan, VIP tents etc. and for the vastly increased media presence, so they finish at the aerodrome, whereas with Paris-Nice's lesser space requirements they can afford to finish right at the top.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Nice stage, and 225 km should hurt the legs a lot. Though I would've gone Pre de la Dame-Croix de Berthel-Col de Finiels to make the stage even more harder and then the Mont Loubiere before tackling the other side of Croix de Neuve (2,5 km at %11,2) and descend to Mende.
The stage would probably be 243 km that way. Here's the last 125 kms:
https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/viewtrack/hd/136452

Or just doing Pre de la Dame instead of Banleve and same last 85-90 km or so as yours, with Croix de Berthel-Montmirat and the known side of Mende with a finish in Airport.

You'd make every stage harder

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

Nice stage, and 225 km should hurt the legs a lot. Though I would've gone Pre de la Dame-Croix de Berthel-Col de Finiels to make the stage even more harder and then the Mont Loubiere before tackling the other side of Croix de Neuve (2,5 km at %11,2) and descend to Mende.
The stage would probably be 243 km that way. Here's the last 125 kms:
https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/viewtrack/hd/136452

Or just doing Pre de la Dame instead of Banleve and same last 85-90 km or so as yours, with Croix de Berthel-Montmirat and the known side of Mende with a finish in Airport.

You'd make every stage harder

Pre de la Dame deserves more love. Pre de la Dame-Croix de Berthel-Montmirat-Croix de Neuve would be awesome.
Also, the stages need to be harder, because with the equipments and co. getting better each day, and with the gap between top riders and domestiques becoming lesser (meaning that Thomas can reel Quintana effortlessly) the stages need to be harder to burn out these domestiques. Just check the Pau-Luchon stages. They are much less selective then in the 80ies.

 

[bp92]

I guess I'll start off my race anyway (my early stages will probably be away from where the other Tour's heading to, so it shouldn't be too confusing hopefully).

Tour de France Stage 1: Le Mans - Le Mans (Circuit de la Sarthe), 17km (ITT)

Climbs: none

The race starts at at the host city of what may be France's most famous racetrack: the Circuit de la Sarthe, host of (among other things) the very first French Grand Prix in 1906, the 24 Hours of Le Mans (the most prestigious endurance race in the world, part of the Triple Crown of Motorsport alongside the Indy 500 and the Monaco Grand Prix), and the French motorcycling GP (using the smaller Bugatti circuit within the facilities).
The stage proper actually starts at the center of Le Mans, from where riders head south towards the racetrack. This first section of the stage features 11km of almost straight-line racing, including the famous 6 km long Mulsanne straight, finishing at the town of the same name. From there riders start heading back northwest following the Circuit de la Sarthe route, finishing at the start-finish line of the circuit.
The very long Mulsanne straight and the flat terrain overall should give powerful TT specialists a sizable gap over non-specialists and even all-rounders; the short length of the stage means this gaps will likely fall after we enter the mountains, but that won't happen for a while so a TT specialist will likely get to keep the maillot jaune for a while.

 

[bp92]

Tour de France Stage 2: Mulsanne - Orléans, 166km

Climbs: La Marsolière (cat. 4), Molineuf (cat. 4)

The second stage of the race starts off in Mulsanne, at the southern edge of the Circuit de Le Mans. Riders start heading south-east towards the Loire river, taking on the first two categorized climbs of the race along the way; they're very short and shallow cat.4 climbs, though, so they're pretty much a reward for the stage's breakaway should there be any.
The stage then turns north-east along the western bank of the Loire, through pan-flat terrain until reaching the finish in Orléans, along the Rue Jeanne d'Arc.
This stage should feature a sprint finish, which will be few and far between throughout the race. The open terrain throughout the route of the stage means there's always the chance for echelons should wind blow in the right direction, so hopeful GC contenders and sprinters looking to win the stage can't afford to get distracted here.

 

[bp92]

Tour de France Stage 3: Orléans - Magny-Cours (Circuit de Nevers Magny-Cours), 193km

Climbs: Chaume des Pendus (cat. 4)

Stage 3 starts off from the city of Orléans, finishing town of the previous stage, and keeps heading east and south through the wide-open flats in central France. While the stage's profile seems mostly uncomplicated, the threat of echelons remains; it was near this area that Chris Froome almost lost control of his 2013 Tour de France bid after strong winds created echelons in an otherwise flat stage that wasn't expected to have any effects in the general classification.
The terrain gets slightly hilly towards the end of the stage, but just barely (the "climb" 12km before the finish is essentially 3km of glorified false flat). The final 4km of the stage are actually raced along the Circuit de Nevers Magny-Cours, host of the French GP between 1991 and 2008, when it was cancelled due to financial problems and the track's unpopularity due to its somewhat remote location, far from France's major cities.
Barring the potential for crosswinds, this stage should be another relatively uncomplicated sprint, with only the heaviest sprinters possibly struggling with the shallow climb near the end of the stage. If the peloton does end up breaking apart, though, it depends on how many sprinters manage to stay in the front group. Again, there won't be many good chances for sprinters to contest stages, so they really won't want to miss out on this one.

 

[bp92]

Tour de France Stage 4: Nevers - Prenois (Dijon-Prenois), 213km

Climbs: Sombernon (cat, 3), Blaisy-Haut (cat. 3), Hauteville (cat. 3)

After two flat stages heading east, sprinter's party time is over. While this stage isn't too hard, it's definitely not one for sprinters, with three cat.3 climbs near the finish line.
The first three quarters of the stage are relatively straightforward, with some rolling hills along the way that may help with the formation of breakaways. The key climbs of the stage all come in the final quarter of the stage, and are in a roughly-increasing order of difficulty: the shallow and irregular Sombernon, the shorter and more consistent Blaisy-Haut, and the fairly steep Hauteville. The latter will probably be the point where the stage winner will be decided, with its first two kms averaging over 8%.
The stage finishes after 10 more kms of undulating terrain, including a lap around the Dijon-Prenois circuit. The track hosted the French GP five times in the 70s and 80s, plus the last-ever Swiss GP in 1982. The track was known for being short yet extremely fast, leading to fast lap times being well under a minute. Despite being extended later, it was still deemed too short, so it was eventually replaced by the Circuit Paul Ricard, near Marseille, which would in turn be replaced by Magny-Cours.
This stage will probably be fought by puncheurs and classics specialists, which will look to launch their attack at the steepest section of Hauteville. There's always a chance for a surprise earlier on, though, with the final 50km being very difficult to control should anyone try an early move.

 

[Forever The Best]

Woah, 3 stages in racing circuits! Do riders do a lap around Magny Cours? (Magny Cours was one of my favourite circuits when I was watching F1)

 

[bp92]

Yup, riders do almost a full lap around the circuit.

Tour de France Stage 5: Beaune - Belleville, 167km

After the eastward journey, riders will now start heading south instead, for a medium mountain stage in the far northern Massif Central. There are five categorized climbs in the second half of the stage, including two cat.2 climbs. The first of these, the Col de Crie, is shallow and constant, averaging 5% throughout most of the climb.

After Crie comes the key climb of the stage, the short and very steep Mont Brouilly. Used multiple times in recent Paris-Nice routes, its final 1,5km at around 10% will likely break the peloton apart. Barring breakaways, the stage winner will likely make his move here.

After a similarly steep descent there's 10 more flat kms before the stage finish in Belleville. While the stage isn't difficult enough to be definitive for the final GC fight, heavier riders will suffer in Mont Brouilly, so a GC leader change is actually very likely. GC contenders may also be caught off-guard by the steep slopes, particularly if they're aiming to peak later in the race.

 

[Brullnux]

How do you create a tour with flamme rouge

 

[Forever The Best]

Re:

How do you create a tour with flamme rouge

Create a new tour from the 'my tours' part

Then name it and put as many stages as you want (don't know the limit), make it public or private and make a description if you want. Then come to 'my tours' part and then you will see your Tour's name. There, click the stages part and add your stages.
Hope this helps.

 

[Forever The Best]

Nice stage, bp92. There may be a few riders gaining a few seconds after the attack on Mont Brouilly like Paris-Nice 2014 stage 4. (that stage also finished in Belleville after Mont Brouilly, with Slagter and Thomas gaining a few seconds with Slagter winning the stage) Also, I think Col de Crie should be 3rd category.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

How do you create a tour with flamme rouge

Create a new tour from the 'my tours' part

Then name it and put as many stages as you want (don't know the limit), make it public or private and make a description if you want. Then come to 'my tours' part and then you will see your Tour's name. There, click the stages part and add your stages.
Hope this helps.

Yeah the last bit stumped me. I couldn't figure out how to add the stages to the tour.

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

How do you create a tour with flamme rouge

Create a new tour from the 'my tours' part

Then name it and put as many stages as you want (don't know the limit), make it public or private and make a description if you want. Then come to 'my tours' part and then you will see your Tour's name. There, click the stages part and add your stages.
Hope this helps.

Yeah the last bit stumped me. I couldn't figure out how to add the stages to the tour.

So I take it you understood?

 

[bp92]

Re:

Tour de France Stage 6: Tarare - Clermont-Ferrand (Circuit de Charade), 194km

Climbs: Croix Casard (cat. 2), Mousser (cat. 2), Mezel (cat. 4), Gergovie (cat. 2), Charade (cat. 2)

The next stage in the Massif Central also features the very first summit finish of the race, at the end of another medium mountain stage.
The eastward journey is now over as we start heading back west, starting from Tarare. There are two cat. 2 climbs early on the stage, including the hardest climb of the stage, the Col de la Croix Casard. It comes 42km into the stage, so it should only serve as the launching point for the stage's main breakaway.
After another short cat-4 climb, we reach the key part of the stage, with two climbs in quick succession within the last 25km of the stage.
The first of these climbs is the short and steep Pas de Gergovie, with its three middle kms around 9%. It may serve as a potential launching pad for definitive attacks, particularly for climbers looking for the stage win.

After Gergovie climbers descend quickly into Clermont-Ferrand, before climbing into the mountains west of the city. The most famous climb of the area, the Puy-de-Dome, is unfortunately no longer usable for professional cycling, so instead we take on a shorter, more thematic climb.

Just to the west of Clermont-Ferrand lays the Circuit de Charade. It was designed in the late 50s to serve as a counterpart to the infamous Nürburgring circuit, featuring fast sweeping curves and tight hairpins in a very hilly and challenging layout. It would go on to host the French Grand Prix four times in the 60s and 70s. However, the fact that it was hosted on modified public roads and the nature of the terrain created serious safety concerns, which would come to a head in the 1972 race, where Helmut Marko would suffer a career-ending eye injury due to a loose rock hitting him in the face. This would be the last French GP to be hosted at Charade, as the race would move into the purpose-built Circuit Paul Ricard.
The climb up to the circuit is relatively shallow, with its steepest sections coming 3km before the summit finish, well before entering the circuit proper. Only the last 2.5km of the racetrack are used by the stage, which are relatevily flat, except for a small 6% spike 500m away from the finish. Not the best climb for GC contenders to try and make a move, unless any rider is caught offguard by this climb or the climb prior. This should be a fight among stage-chasers, with the potential for a breakaway win if the peloton's pace isn't too high.

 

[bp92]

Tour de France Stage 7: Ussel - Périgueux, 157km

Climbs: Thenon (cat. 4)

Stage 7 is a short-ish transition stage, as we come out of the western side of the Massif Central. There's only one categorized climb, the cat.4 Côte de Thenon 23km away from the finish, as well as some small uncategorized hills in the first third of the stage. There's about 300m of uphill cobbles within the last km of the stage, which may complicate what would otherwise be a typical sprint finish in Périgueux.

 

[bp92]

Tour de France Stage 8: Périgueux - Bergerac, 60km (ITT)

Climbs: None

The second time trial of the race is also the longest, clocking in at the UCI-mandated upper length limit of 60km. Its starting and finishing towns, Périgueux and Bergerac are very frequently used as stopping points whenever the Tour route passes through the Nouvelle Aquitaine region in western France. The most famous stage featuring these two towns was Stage 9 of the 1994 version of the race; also a time trial, albeit 4km longer, it's remembered due to Miguel Indurain's dominant performance, which would give him the maillot jaune (which he would keep until the end of the race), and the moniker "Tirano de Bergerac" ("The Tyrant of Bergerac").
The stage's route follows the west bank of the Isle river until Mussidan, where the riders cross the river and head east through slightly hilly terrain until the finishing line in Bergerac. The pan-flat terrain along the first half of the stage and the straightforward route overall will make this a pure test of power, particularly among TT specialists. Climbers will likely lose a lot of time here, which they will have to try and earn back through very long-ranged attacks in the mountains if they want to stand a chance in the fight for the GC.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Stage 10: Le Mans > Niort - 209km - flat
https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/viewtrack/hd/133592

A start on the Le Mans circuit, bp92 will like it The riders will do 1.5 lap on the circuit. It looks like a straightforward sprint stage, there are no categorized climbs and no uncategorized hills of note either, but the riders must stay alert, the stage is close to the coast so there is a potential for crosswinds.

Final 5km

The circuit in Le Mans, Google tells me it is known as "Circuit des 24 heures" or "Circuit de la Sarthe" (hey, isn't that a cycling race ), can't be sure though as I have no knowledge of motorsports

Finishing city Niort

The Château des ducs de La Trémoille located in Thouars, where the intermediate sprint will be

Château de Saumur, where the riders will cross the Loire river


Stage 11: Royan > Marmande - 199km - flat
https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/viewtrack/hd/133599

Another potential sprint stage, but this one isn't as straightforward. The riders start in Royan on the west coast, again crosswinds are a danger. The final is very bumpy with several uncategorized hills, most are 1-2km long at around 3-4%. The last hill is 6km before the finish, this one is 1.5km at 4.1%, with 500m at 6%. There is definitely a chance a strong attacker can make it to the finish alone, but the last 1.5km are straight ahead which is an advantage for the sprint teams.

Final 5km: a descent from the last hill and then 4km pan-flat

Starting town Royan


Stage 12: Bayonne > Bayonne - 24.5km - individual time trial
https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/viewtrack/hd/133604

We're in the French Basque Country, here the first individual time trial of the race will take place. This ITT is not very long but completely flat. Also, the proximity to the sea could be a big advantage for the heavier riders if it's windy (isn't it always windy near the sea?). The better TTers among the GC contenders can definitely take a decent chunk of time out of the featherweight climbers.

Bayonne

Biarritz

Interesting architecture along the route in Biarritz

Saint-Marie Cathedral in Bayonne

Stay tuned for the more climby 2nd half of the 2nd week..

 

[Brullnux]

Are you doing the real circuit or just the motogp one?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Presumably the proper one, as the riders are doing one and a half laps; don't see how you could do a lap and a half of the Bugatti Circuit because you can't really exit to public roads until you get to the Porsche Curves and race them backwards, whereas a lap and a half of the Circuit de la Sarthe with its public roads would enable you to leave at Mulsanne corner and head south from there.