Race Design Thread

[Samu Cuenca]

Fraustro Tour II

Stage 2: Bludenz - Landeck, 71 km

It's probably no surprise that we'll be leaving the region of Vorarlberg on day 2 and make our way towards Tirol. This stage is quite similar to my Felbertauern stage to Lienz from the first edition, in the way that it has a big climb early on and then some shorter bumps near the finish.

The ascent to the top of the Arlbergpass pretty much starts from km zero, but the first 22 km are mostly false flat. When the riders reach Klösterle, the last 11 km average over 6%. At almost 1800 m, the altitude will probably also play a role here.

38 km remain from the top. The first 6 km of the descend are about 7.5% downhill, so differences can be made here. Before the next 20 km of slight downhill begins, there'll be a bonus sprint in St. Anton. In Pians, we're leaving the Bundesstraße in order to climb to the town of Grins (approx. 1.8 km, 7.9%). After a 3 km descent, the riders will then tackle the last obstacle of the day.

When you're designing a stage to Landeck, it's very tempting to include the climb to Tobadill, but here I'm only using the first km of the eastern side, which averages about 8%. It is followed by a short descent before a flat finish next to the town hall.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Fraustro Tour II

Stage 3: Landeck - Samnaun, 83 km

It's time for the race's emperor/empress stage.

With only a couple of exceptions, my parents visited Austria every summer 30 years in a row. From the start first then they were joined by my mother's parents and then later also by their own children for the rest of that era. Being the youngest kid, I only took part in the last third of those trips, but my parents and I have visited the country together multiple times since then.

One of the excursions which quickly became an annual thing for my family was a visit to the ski resort and duty free area of Samnaun, where you can get cigarettes, whiskey and wild, wild women (or at least two of those things) at a cheaper price than in Austria and Switzerland.

Before the riders get there, they will first have a small appetizer when they turn left in the town of Prutz and climb their way through Faggen and Kauns towards the point where the L64 meets the road to the Kaunertaler Gletscherstraße. However they won't be tackling that beast on this occasion and will quickly descend back down to Prutz instead.

Next up are two sprints in Ried and Pfunds, before they'll cross the Swiss border. When they reach Martina, it's time for some more climbing. The Norbertshöhe will bring us back to Austria, where the road from the Reschenpass will lead the riders down to the outskirts of Pfunds once again. After they've crossed the Kajetansbrücke over the Inn river, it's finally time for the main course and dessert.

The climb to Samnaun featured in the 2002 Tour de Suisse, where the Vino option would have handed you a win in the pre-stage poll. For sentimental reasons, I've put the finish line next to Hermelindis Einkauf-Center, which is about 400 m before the end of the paved road through town. A true climber should win here and possibly also hold the race lead ahead of the last 3 stages.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Well I guess I should get around to finish my race at some point.

Fraustro Tour II

Stage 4: Zams - Innsbruck, 70 km

Before the last day of racing, we'll have a fairly easy stage. Starting from the town of Zams, we'll follow Inn all the way to Innsbruck, the Tyrolean capital. Here you can enjoy a variety of attractions. These are some of them:

The city is associated with wintersports and ski jumping in particular. Both the 1964 and '76 Winter Olympics took place here, and the Bergiselschanze hosts the third event of the annual Vierschanzentournee.

When it comes to ski jumping, my GOAT is Gregor Schlierenzauer, here caught flying above his home town in 2013. Visible in the photo are both the Wilten Basilica and the Wilten Abbey

Next to ski jump arena, you'll find the Tirol Panorama museum. Here you can experience the Riesenrundgemälde panoramic painting, which depicts the Tyrolean Rebellion during the Napoleonic Wars in 1809. It was led by local innkeeper Andreas Hofer, not to confuse with the former national ITT champion of the same name. The painting was previously on display in a designated building in the city before it was moved to Bergisel in 2010, which not everyone was a fan of.

At Hungerburg on the opposite side of the city, you can visit the Alpenzoo or take the cable car up the mountain.

In the Altstadt, you can walk up to the viewing platform in the 14th century Stadtturm, from where you'll be able enjoy the sight of the Goldenes Dachl and the Gothic style Heblinghaus (the photo below is not actually taken from the platform though).

In the world of cycling, Innsbruck is of course well remembered for having hosted the 2018 Road World Championships. The women's elite road race was won by Anna van der Breggen in commanding fashion, while Austria achieved its first ever gold medal in women's road cycling when Innsbruck's own Laura Stigger crossed the line first in the junior road race. Being an MTBer first and foremost, she hasn't ridden a race on the road since the U23 RR at the EC in Trento 3 years ago. However I do hope we'll see her and the other local off-roader Mona Mitterwallner get selected for the WC RR in the future.

Stigger celebrating her win ahead of the almost always happy Marie Le Net and with Simone Boilard coming in third


Back to my race. The stage is quite flat for the area with the Imsterberg being the only real challenge. I think I placed the finish line close to the university, so the tram tracks didn't become too much of an issue.

 

[Forever The Best]

Ah, Schlieri. Won everything he could except an individual Olympic gold between 2007-2013 then completely fell off at the age of 24. Still holds the record for most World Cup wins with 53.
Also he was amazing in that Innsbruck 2013 competition, dominant win which got him a 2nd consecutive 4 Hills title.

Oh, small note, Innsbruck also hosted Large Hill competitions in 2019 Nordic Ski World Championships.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Ah, Schlieri. Won everything he could except an individual Olympic gold between 2007-2013 then completely fell off at the age of 24. Still holds the record for most World Cup wins with 53.
Also he was amazing in that Innsbruck 2013 competition, dominant win which got him a 2nd consecutive 4 Hills title.

Oh, small note, Innsbruck also hosted Large Hill competitions in 2019 Nordic Ski World Championships.

I haven't paid too much attention to the ski jumping World Cup in recent years, apart from watching a competition here and there, so I was surprised to learn that Stefan Kraft is only 10 wins away from equaling Schlieri's record now.

 

[Forever The Best]

I haven't paid too much attention to the ski jumping World Cup in recent years, apart from watching a competition here and there, so I was surprised to learn that Stefan Kraft is only 10 wins away from equaling Schlieri's record now.

I haven't watched much since 2018 or so either, but Kraft's 2015 (Winner of 4 Hills, 3rd Overall at World Cup not far behind Freund and Prevc, and 3rd in WCH Normal Hill) and 2017 seasons (Winner of World Cup, Winner of both Normal Hill and Large Hill at WCH) showed he was already a great. Not surprised by his further achievements.

If he wins an Olympic Gold he will have won everything in his career (he added Ski Flying WCH this year, he also won World Cup for the 3rd time, he also has 3 Nordic Ski WCH golds)

Kraft basically seems to have become a star after Schlieri fell off. (In 14/15 season)

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I haven't watched much since 2018 or so either, but Kraft's 2015 (Winner of 4 Hills, 3rd Overall at World Cup not far behind Freund and Prevc, and 3rd in WCH Normal Hill) and 2017 seasons (Winner of World Cup, Winner of both Normal Hill and Large Hill at WCH) showed he was already a great. Not surprised by his further achievements.

If he wins an Olympic Gold he will have won everything in his career (he added Ski Flying WCH this year, he also won World Cup for the 3rd time, he also has 3 Nordic Ski WCH golds)

Kraft basically seems to have become a star after Schlieri fell off. (In 14/15 season)

Don't forget the crazy anomaly that was Thomas Diethart. Got into the 2013-14 Vierschanzentournee from the national group, somehow managed to win the whole thing, won an Olympic medal, and then disappeared straight back to the Continental Cup anonymity he'd been before, before suffering serious injuries that he never recovered from to ever be able to indicate whether he could make it back to the top.

It was like having the cycling career of Chris Froome up to age 26, and then the career of Fabio Aru from age 26 onward.

 

[Forever The Best]

Don't forget the crazy anomaly that was Thomas Diethart. Got into the 2013-14 Vierschanzentournee from the national group, somehow managed to win the whole thing, won an Olympic medal, and then disappeared straight back to the Continental Cup anonymity he'd been before, before suffering serious injuries that he never recovered from to ever be able to indicate whether he could make it back to the top.

It was like having the cycling career of Chris Froome up to age 26, and then the career of Fabio Aru from age 26 onward.

That was a complete shock. Without him it would have been an amazing duel between Thomas Morgenstern (who had a very strong performance despite the injury in Tittisee-Neustadt, in what turned out to be his last season) and Simon Ammann (who was also having one of his last good seasons and Vierschanzentournee was the trophy he never won ) with Kamil Stoch and Gregor Schlierenzauer dropping the ball (Schlieri basically fell off, got only 1 win rest of his career)
I thought Diethart was like Cobo but Cobo won Pais Vasco 2007 and a stage in Tour 2008 before (also top 10 in Vuelta 2009).

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Fraustro Tour II

Stage 5a: Unterperfuss - Kematen, 32.5 km

The Triumphpforte in Innsbruck as it looked through my mother's camera lens in 1974

As previously mentioned, my family used to holiday in Austria quite a bit. My parents first visited Innsbruck in 1974 and kept coming back. A lot of days and nights were spend at the Farm Camping in Unterperfuss, until the Hörtnagl family got rid of their swimming pool in the late 90's, which made us explore other campsites in the area in the following years (Georg Hörtnagl was later elected mayor of the town, so I guess the locals weren't as bothered by it as us).

Me being kept from drowning in the aforementioned swimming pool, back when Rolf Sørensen and I both had blond hair in July

From Farm we also went on trips to other parts of Tyrol and Austria and sometimes to Italy as well. It also became a tradition to drive up the Kühtaisattel and find somewhere to bath in the Melach river. That's also what we're gonna do on this stage, although the riders probably won't have time to enjoy a dip in the water on this occasion.

A view over the campsite and the town with the mountains to the north of Innsbruck in the background

From the start outside the Farm Camping and accompanying Branger Alm restaurant, which has its own brewery, the climbing starts almost immediately. The route goes through Oberperfuss and past the Tiefental-Kapelle in Hinterburg, before descending down to Sellrain and continuing to the finish line in Kematen. This loop will be ridden twice before a winner is crowned. Just like in the first edition of the race, we'll have a short and intense road stage on the final day. However this time it's only the first of two challenges.

The climb is the first 4.7 km of Stiglreith/Sulzstich, but with another km at around 6% added on to it.

 

[Forever The Best]

I had a couple Vuelta stages I designed but did not fit into a GT. So if I do I may be posting a 6th version of a Vuelta or a 21-stage Tour of Turkey (I actually designed one all the way back in 2016 but did not continue posting here after a couple of stages-had MTFs at Kartepe and Babadag and some other tough stages-so it may have some stages from that)

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Fraustro Tour II

Stage 5b: Hall in Tirol - Jenbach, 25.8 km ITT

I wasn't sure whether to start the ITT in Hall or move it to the Swarovski Kristallwelten in Wattens, where the women's ITT started at the Innsbruck Worlds, and which I also have fond memories of visiting as a child. I also considered including the Gnadenwald climb, to make up for the female riders not getting to ride it in their ITT in 2018. In the end I went for the longer version, but without any really difficult climbs.

The reason for starting in Hall was so I got the opportunity to mention Mona Mitterwallner once again, as well as Austria's up-and-coming biathlete Anna Gandler and Nordic combined star Johannes Lamparter, who all seem to have been born here within a year in the early 2000s. Biathlete Felix Leitner and Nordic combined skier Lukas Greiderer are also from the town or thereabouts.

Mona Mitterwallner winning her second cross-country marathon (XCM) WC title in Glasgow last year

In addition to being able to handle a rifle, Anna Gandler also plays the violin

Out on the course, the riders will pass through Volders, where the host of the town's campsite, for a reason I can't remember, speaks/spoke a little bit of Danish. But the biggest attraction on the route is of course the aforementioned Swarovski Kristallwelten.

There are two major reasons for finishing the time trial in Jenbach. and they are Christina and Kathrin Schweinberger. The Tyrol Twins, born about a minute apart (Kathrin is the oldest), originally did alpine skiing before they caught the cycling bug. They apparently also did judo when they were younger.

As sisters and training partners they've always had each other's backs

Kathrin being the faster sprinter and also the better time trialist early showed her promise by winning 3 national junior titles (1 RR, 2 ITT) and followed that up with two elite RR titles in 2020 and '21. However since they left the controversial Marc Bracke's Doltcini - Van Eyck team, it's been the younger sister who's reached the biggest results.

Kathrin took her first ever UCI win by outsprinting Demi Vollering on the last stage of the Tour of Uppsala in 2018

Having won the ITT and finished 3rd overall in Gracia - Orlová in 2022, followed by two close wins ahead of Olympic champion Anna Kiesenhofer at the Austrian NC, Christina's real breakthrough came in 2023. With achievements such as 8th places is both Omloop and Brugge-De Panne, 5th in Gent-Wevelgem, 15th in Paris-Roubaix and 5th in Thüringen Ladies Tour, her season had already been a success before the Worlds in Glasgow.

By managing to close a 5 second gap to Anna Henderson in the final kilometres of the time trial, she ended up with a surprising and huge bronze medal. A few days later she finished 5th in the road race, and at the EC in Drenthe a month later, she won another bronze in the ITT, before Kiesenhofer was the one winning their internal battle by one second for the win in Chrono des Nations on the last race day of the season.

The sisters have also had decent results in 2024 so far, with Christina in particular having raced aggressively on multiple occasions, while also beeng a fine teammate for Puck Pieterse among others. But the season isn't over yet, and it'll be interesting to see what the rest of the year has in store for the twins. The FT organisers hope both of them would show up for their race, either for their trade or national teams.

This stage design has received the rare honour of a double Schweinberger thumbs-up

26 km is quite a lot for women's time trial, especially considering it's also the second stage of the day. In the Baloise Ladies Tour, they have a 2 hour road stage followed by an ITT later in the day, which has been about 15 km in recent editions. Here the road stage will only last an hour, so there will be time enough to do a recon of the time trial course beforehand, although the legs might be tired.

I assume it coud lead to a lot of changes in the GC, depending on the differences in time trialing abilities between the best placed riders. Someone who's 2 or 3 minutes behind before the stage won't be out of it yet. The winner of this second edition of the Fraustro Tour will have proved she can handle tough climbs and descents as well being able to defend herself well against the clock.

 

[Netserk]

Say I want one of the stages in my upcoming Giro to award a prize to the first rider in a specific town in honour of someone dead. Should I call such a sprint "Premio [Name]" in Italian?

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Say I want one of the stages in my upcoming Giro to award a prize to the first rider in a specific town in honour of someone dead. Should I call such a sprint "Premio [Name]" in Italian?

The Tour de Suisse awards the #rideforgino-Bergpreis as a version of the Cima Coppi from this year onwards, so you could also use English and hashtags.

 

[Netserk]

The Tour de Suisse awards the #rideforgino-Bergpreis as a version of the Cima Coppi from this year onwards, so you could also use English and hashtags.

That would be hideous for an Italian race.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

That would be hideous for an Italian race.

It‘s also hideous for a Swiss race, but I wanted to bring this up in some thread. Sorry

 

[Netserk]

I think it's good to retire his race number, but I don't think the rest of it will age well.

 

[Netserk]

Giro d'Italia​

Rules​

Maglia Rosa: No bonus seconds in the race. When the Trofeo Senza Fine is awarded in Torino, no losers blemish the podium - the winner stands alone.
Maglia Ciclamino: Points are scored on the finish-line only, all stages give the same amount: 25-20-16-14-12-10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1.
Maglia Verde: Climbs are divided in four categories: Cima Coppi, 1st, 2nd & 3rd. Cima Coppi (highest climb): 30-20-15-12-10-8-6-4-2-1. Category 1 climbs: 20-12-8-6-5-4-3-2-1. Category 2 climbs: 10-6-4-3-2-1. Category 3 climbs: 5-3-2-1. The rider first over Montello will wear the jersey for stage 1.
Maglia Azzurra: The Intergiro classification takes the time of the riders at the mid-stage Intergiro sprint. There will also be a separate Intergiro points classification with the same distribution as the regular points competition. The winner of the daily Intergiro sprint will get on the podium after the stage winner. In all three ITTs, the Intergiro sprint is located at the second intermediate time check.

The 15 climbs in stage 9 give no points, but the rider who crosses the top first over most climbs of the day is awarded a special prize. Likewise, there's a special prize for the rider who wins the bonus sprint in Borgo Valsagana (stage 15). There will be no team classification.

May 16​	Individual Time Trial​	Prologue​	Varese > Varese​	7 Km​
May 17​	Medium Mountain​	Stage 1​	Bergamo > Madonna del Ghisallo​	235 Km​
May 18​	Medium Mountain​	Stage 2​	Lovere > Iseo​	167 Km​
May 19​	Plain​	Stage 3​	Sirmione > Marina di Massa​	254 Km​
May 20​	Plain​	Stage 4​	Firenze (Ponte a Ema) > Viterbo​	234 Km​
May 21​	Plain​	Stage 5​	Fiano Romano > Montecassino​	214 Km​
May 22​	Individual Time Trial​	Stage 6​	Benevento > Montevergine di Mercogliano​	61 Km​
May 23​	Medium Mountain​	Stage 7​	Melfi > Viggiano​	210 Km​
May 24​	Medium Mountain​	Stage 8​	Salerno > Ravello (Amalfi)​	160 Km​
May 25​	Rest Day	-	San Benedetto del Tronto	-
May 26​	Medium Mountain​	Stage 9​	San Benedetto del Tronto > Recanati​	226 Km​
May 27​	High Mountain​	Stage 10​	Cagli > Cagli​	165 Km​
May 28​	Medium Mountain​	Stage 11​	Pergola > Bagno di Romagna​	159 Km​
May 29​	Plain​	Stage 12​	Cesena (TechnoGym Village) > Padova​	217 Km​
May 30​	High Mountain​	Stage 13​	Conegliano > Sauris​	193 Km​
May 31​	High Mountain​	Stage 14​	Tolmezzo > Cividale del Friuli​	191 Km​
June 1​	Rest Day	-	Trento	-
June 2​	High Mountain​	Stage 15​	Trento > Sella Valsugana​	187 Km​
June 3​	Plain​	Stage 16​	Riva del Garda > Pavia​	221 Km​
June 4​	Individual Time Trial​	Stage 17​	Tortona > Castellania​	67 Km​
June 5​	High Mountain​	Stage 18​	Alessandria > Sestriere​	234 Km​
June 6​	High Mountain​	Stage 19​	Pinerolo > Cuneo​	251 Km​
June 7​	Medium Mountain​	Stage 20​	Torino > Torino​	90 Km​

 

[Netserk]

Here you have my wish list for the Giro, @Red Rick. Especially Viggiano deserves a better treatment than in 2014.

Descending Faito that side may be a bit unrealistic, but I'd like to see something new for the area.

 

[Netserk]

Love nearly all of it. Thought it brings me to question how hard is too hard, and I lean toward this being solidly too hard.

Most of the designs were previous stand-alone works, then tweaked a bit and with some additions to add it up to a complete route. Of the individual stages, I think only Recanati and Pinerolo-Cuneo are too much (in addition to the length of the ITTs). I'm satisfied with the pacing of the overall route and I think I managed to show how to make some of the areas work. I definitely hope that if Fauniera returns, it will be the last mountain stage. I don't think it's unrealistic to hope that they'll include Sampeyre as well, so long as they don't do Montoso too.

Despite the success of 2018, I also fear that Fraiteve is more likely than double Sestriere afterwards.

How much total distance and desnivel does your route have?

I'm 260 km short of a proper GT (4000 km), and I'm still so soft that I include rest days. I don't know what the total vertical gain is (I don't trust LFR there at all).

 

[Netserk]

I think the later Zomegnan years received a lot of complaints from teams and riders, so there's a political economy to it. Like, how sponsor-friendly a field can you attract if riders fear that they can't combine it well with many other races? And it'd be bad to raise the bar to a level you can't repeat (or so I thought, until they just decided to make worse routes than previously).

I do suspect though that they lack the eye for good options in less well-known areas. So better to include high mountains that will be cancelled or cross the border (on paper). In the first two weeks I don't have a single climb above 1500 m, but you can still design decisive stages in all of Italy with that in mind.

 

[Netserk]

But it's the mutants who sell. I don't think RCS will be happy with a lighter version of the 2022 field (minus Nibali). Zomegnan was fired after 2011, but perhaps as much over transfers and whacky/gimmick ideas (as Crostis was perceived to be) than "hardness" alone. I'd much prefer if they avoided the highest mountains, borders and "gimmicks", minimised transfers and made quiet, solid routes for a few years. Less controversy, just racing.

 

[Netserk]

I hope Tiberi and Pellizzari will be future contenders for the victory, it must be harder for the race if you neither have the international superstars nor any local stars (other than Ganna and Milan now).

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The moment you sell yourself out to the whims of 1 rider

Even if that rider is Adam Hansen?

 

[Brullnux]

Mutants is what you have a bag of money for. Or not.

The moment you sell yourself out to the whims of 1 rider is the moment you downgrade your own race. Fans eating up is just speeding up the decline of the sport.

I agree in principle but I don't think that selling yourself to the whims of one (or two) riders, and fans enjoying it, make cycling decline. The Giro and Tour have done it very deliberately for the past 30 years.

 

[KZD]

With a Giro route like this one, Pogačar would win some 10 stages with the kind of field he had this year.

The sprinters on the other hand, would avoid this race like the plague.