Races Should Be Much Harder

[jens_attacks]

hell yeah make all races harder i'm not a pro cyclist after all.

one 400 km classic is a must and i want more of these 60 km itts.

 

[brianf7]

Didnt someone say after the Festina affair the reason Cycling was full of drugs is because the racing is too long and too hard.
They then introduced extra rest days. as though that made any difference.
The only people who liked the rest day is the UCI exec and media not the riders
Its only as hard as riders make it.
I remember when we all had to fix our own punctures and chase no team support or spares usualy they would wait for you but you had to be quick. I remember in the Peace race I couldnt get my tub off because my hands were frozen.

 

[forty four]

True dat. Back in the day, Sean Kelly had a great sprint. But he was also a hard mofo who could get himself over all sorts of terrain. He even won the Vuelta one year. Now we have useless prats like Cav who have to be escorted by his whole team to the end of a dead flat stage.

yeah well kelly is not your average dude hard to compare him to most riders as he makes even great cyclists look like pampered girls. then again many would say he was one of the hardest ever period. as another pro said of kelly hardest man there ever was or another said strongest immune and recovery system of anybody raced all year hard never sick. one tough mic put simply different era. these days we focus on the perfect diet body/genes recovery and forget what someone has between there ears heart/soul imo.

 

[Eric8-A]

I've always thought that for the World Championships and the Olympics, the time trial should be longer. The time trials at these events usually cover the same ground that a TT would in a grand tour. The road race in an event like this is usually more K's than an ordinary road race, and is usually the length of a classic race which tests the riders. I think at least the TT should be legnthened to be some 50 miles or more, instead of it being 50 kilometers.

 

[ergmonkey]

The idea of a totally epic, over-the-top-mountain-summit-finishes, 100km itt, longest stages ever Grand Tour sounds really awesome...

...right up until the point you realize that an Alberto Contador or early-2000's Lance Armstrong would have the classification wrapped up before the second rest day and would win by over ten minutes every time he tried.

There's a lot more to good stage race organization than that. You can have too much of a good thing. That's not to say that I'm opposed to this year's Giro, but I do think there's got to be a limit.

As for the Classics, when exactly did they become boring or non-selective?

 

[Matthijs]

In the old days:

-there was a classic 600k long called Paris-Bordeaux

-there where no MTF in GT's (cities pay for finishes, mountains don't)

-itt's of 60-80k or TTT's of 100k could happen

BTW: this crazy GT with only MTF's, ITT's of 80k and stages of 250-300k can only go to one man. Carlos Sastre! Not a pusy like Contador who stops directly after the tour, but a real man who is at his best in the 3rd week of every GT. And rides 2 or 3 GT's every year, usually in top 10. The time he looses in the first 2 weeks he can easily make up in this crazy event by winning every stage in the last week because his recovery is so much better!

So, on Milano San Remo. I do think, when you look at the list of winners, sprinters dominate this race the last 15 year more then ever.

 

[c&cfan]

The idea of a totally epic, over-the-top-mountain-summit-finishes, 100km itt, longest stages ever Grand Tour sounds really awesome...

...right up until the point you realize that an Alberto Contador or early-2000's Lance Armstrong would have the classification wrapped up before the second rest day and would win by over ten minutes every time he tried.

There's a lot more to good stage race organization than that. You can have too much of a good thing. That's not to say that I'm opposed to this year's Giro, but I do think there's got to be a limit.

As for the Classics, when exactly did they become boring or non-selective?

this is the best post ever made in this forum.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

As for the Classics, when exactly did they become boring or non-selective?

Exactly

The tediousness of many GT stages is due to the defensive team riding in this ultra-professional era.

The solution is meaningful time bonuses for KOM points.

 

[Eric8-A]

The KoM thing really doesn't seem to do it for me. Just because a guy gets more points than someone else doesn't mean he's the best climber of that race.

I always thought that the points should go to the rider with the quickest time over the climb. But I suppose that'll be too complicated to keep track of.

 

[BroDeal]

The KoM thing really doesn't seem to do it for me. Just because a guy gets more points than someone else doesn't mean he's the best climber of that race.

The KOM competition is a mountain points competition, not a best climber competition. Its purpose is to provide interest outside of the GC. In GTs riders have to go in breaks to get enough points.

I always thought that the points should go to the rider with the quickest time over the climb. But I suppose that'll be too complicated to keep track of.

Then one of the top three GC men would win it. It would become as pointless as the white jersey.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

The KoM thing really doesn't seem to do it for me. Just because a guy gets more points than someone else doesn't mean he's the best climber of that race.

I always thought that the points should go to the rider with the quickest time over the climb. But I suppose that'll be too complicated to keep track of.

GC time bonuses at KOM type locations would encourage selection earlier in stages (if the bonuses are big enough)

 

[movingtarget]

KOM points should only be awarded for the hardest climbs in the race so a quality climber wins it. Hors category and category one climbs.

I think that making the races harder would only encourage doping. Yes the Giro is a great race as are the classics. I don't think any of the prestigeous races need to be harder. They can tinker with the routes as they do but making them longer or adding extra hills is pointless. Just because the roads and the equipment are better and the races are faster doesn't mean the races should be made harder. Fignon, great rider that he was, was always shooting from the hip as is Hinault. They always had strong opinions. Sean Kelly's opinions seem more realistic and he was without doubt a tough competitor !

We have already seen some great races this year without the need for additonal changes. I did not see any fresh faces at the end of Milan-San Remo.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Mid-stage GC time bonuses.

Or do the TV want to save it all until the last climb anyway?

 

[Yeahright]

Yes, I agree. But cyclists nowadays are spoilt brats, that need a soothing voice in their ear piece.

I would love some proper racing that sorts the hard men from the boys. Plus I want it clean.

Me to and I think that you are the man to bring it to them. Get out there and enter as a privateer and rip their damn legs off. Show Cancellara what it really means to put the hammer down, show Cav some real speed in a sprint and show Bertie what real acceleration is up a mountain is. Get out there and show them what a hard man really is as you bury them.

do it!

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

I agree that classics should be longer.
Big group sprints are very disappointing in a classic.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I've always thought that for the World Championships and the Olympics, the time trial should be longer. The time trials at these events usually cover the same ground that a TT would in a grand tour. The road race in an event like this is usually more K's than an ordinary road race, and is usually the length of a classic race which tests the riders. I think at least the TT should be legnthened to be some 50 miles or more, instead of it being 50 kilometers.

no pls not. have one look at the 80s and wonder why a colombian never woin the tour then?? itt's of 70/80 km and ttt's of 100 km would mean strongest teams had 10s of minutes advantage going into the mountains.

 

[R.0.t.O]

no pls not. have one look at the 80s and wonder why a colombian never woin the tour then?? itt's of 70/80 km and ttt's of 100 km would mean strongest teams had 10s of minutes advantage going into the mountains.

...and the climbers would be forced to attack earlier and more often and try to break the timetrialists. It's far from proven that taking tt km's away makes the TdF more exciting.

Anyway he was talking about the tt in the Olympics and Worlds.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

...and the climbers would be forced to attack earlier and more often and try to break the timetrialists. It's far from proven that taking tt km's away makes the TdF more exciting.

Anyway he was talking about the tt in the Olympics and Worlds.

it modern day cycling it would only mean the ttrs win the GTs.
100km of itt would seriously suck.

 

[hrotha]

no pls not. have one look at the 80s and wonder why a colombian never woin the tour then?? itt's of 70/80 km and ttt's of 100 km would mean strongest teams had 10s of minutes advantage going into the mountains.

Yeah but the Colombian teams and riders from the 80s only had 4 or 5 years until they were all but driven out of the sport by [Clinic] abuse, before they could fully adapt to the European kind of cycling.

 

[Archibald]

Fignon's comments were directed at the classics, though, and his comments were misguided.

I hardly think you can consider Fignon's comments as "misguided" - he's in a far better position than any of us to comment on whether FW should be lengthed back to it's original distance...

 

[R.0.t.O]

it modern day cycling it would only mean the ttrs win the GTs.
100km of itt would seriously suck.

Well right now it doesn't matter what course you have because Contador is going to win. But generally speaking one thing that makes Grand Tours exciting is the big hitters having to race hard to make up time, not just following each other all day then seeing who's fastest on the last 5km of the last climb. Taking the TTs away seems to have coincided with the TdF at least getting less exciting not more.

I say give Wiggins, Cancellara and Martin a big advantage going into the mountains and make the climbers race every day to get the time back.

It's different in the Giro where the climbs are that much tougher that a procession up isn't possible, but even at the 2010 Giro much of the drama was because Basso/Nibs/Evans etc had to go hard every day to get time back (albeit time lost to a break rather than a tt but the principle is the same.)

 

[Chuffy]

Me to and I think that you are the man to bring it to them. Get out there and enter as a privateer and rip their damn legs off. Show Cancellara what it really means to put the hammer down, show Cav some real speed in a sprint and show Bertie what real acceleration is up a mountain is. Get out there and show them what a hard man really is as you bury them.

do it!

I think Fester is channeling the spirit of Henri Desgrange. We should take away their freewheels, their gears and their team mates. No armchair rides to the finish! If you really wanted to make it entertaining, cover them with jam and release hungry bears onto the course.

 

[Captain_Cavman]

it modern day cycling it would only mean the ttrs win the GTs.
100km of itt would seriously suck.

You mean an all-round cyclist? Yeah, can't have one of them winning.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

You mean an all-round cyclist? Yeah, can't have one of them winning.

Sorry, but I didn't really enjoy 'all-round' Tony Martin winning PN, as entertaining as his attacking was.

 

[Cobblestoned]

it modern day cycling it would only mean the ttrs win the GTs.
100km of itt would seriously suck.

Not only in modern days.
People who cannot TT suck and shouldn't win a GT.
Besides that, many good TTers can also climb and are therefore candidates for a GT win, and then can be deserved winners.

If you want to win a GT you have to know how to TT. Thats how things work in cycling and thats how it has worked nearly always except 2011 of course.
But I see the big TT-revenge coming in 2012 as a sign of sorry.
Something like Giro09 TT was great. Anyone who didn't enjoy it and didn't talk about it for weeks ?
And this is great. TT is for the real men. 100km even more.
If you can't TT you are officially not a rider that can be considered as allrounder or candidate for GT Podium.