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Radio Revolt

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May 12, 2009
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Do we know that it takes away anything? Periero's break got 30 minutes despite radios.
Prior to today's stage, the previous two stages actually had successful breaks, with radios present.

As for other races being done without radios -- I doubt the pelotons are quite as big, and they certainly have fewer cars and motos zooming around. The safety aspect might be exaggerated, but I can believe it is at least a little concern.
 
Coach Hawk said:
23%.

Don't quite understand the question--if it takes away any, then shouldn't it be open for discussion?

And if the riders perceive that it compromises their safety, shouldn't that be open to discussion? It seems a lot more valid and quantifiable than what percentage of soul is lost
 
Jul 3, 2009
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VeloFidelis said:
And if the riders perceive that it compromises their safety, shouldn't that be open to discussion? It seems a lot more valid and quantifiable than what percentage of soul is lost

Quantifiable how? I'm still waiting for a single example of a rider injury in the 100 years of cycling that pre-dates radios that could have been prevented by radio connection to the team car. Otherwise, it's a solution looking for a problem.

And just to clarify, I am NOT against having an earpiece to listen in on official race radio for actual safety issues. I'm just against having a tet-a-tet with the DS in the middle of the race.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Juan Speeder said:
No.

You claimed that riders can't think for themselves.

An ex-pro scolding his son is not proof of that.

Want to try again?

Duh. That's exactly the point that Stephen Roche was making: You're a pro, paid to ride and race, not be herded around the roads of France by a fat bloke in car. Take some responsibility.

I paraphrase but maybe that is clearer?
 
Mar 17, 2009
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A rider might actually have to use their own judgment? Actually think? Just like us mere mortals? Perish the thought!

Stop the whining. If you can figure out how to dodge the doping controls, surely you can figure out how to work around this.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Coach Hawk said:
And just to clarify, I am NOT against having an earpiece to listen in on official race radio for actual safety issues. I'm just against having a tet-a-tet with the DS in the middle of the race.

Exactly my point of view. Some later respondents seem to have missed the distinction I originally made between 'race' and 'team' radio contact.
 
May 5, 2009
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Coach Hawk said:
I don't get why a fundamental change to the nature of the sport (riders have to understand the race and act vs. DS understands the race and tells them what to do) has to be about nostalgia. It has to do with the what makes bike racing bike racing.

It seems like everyone like using other sports for analogy, so let's go to baseball. Put radios in the athletes ears for SAFETY--no more outfield collisions because the coach can call from the dugout who gets the ball. In fact, with todays computers (ref. tennis's Shot Spot) you could set it up such that the instance the ball leaves the bat the coach says "left field, 3 feet inside the baseline at the edge of the warning track". The athlete doesn't have to hardly see the ball at all--run to where the coach tells you and stick your glove out. If the ball is in play he doesn't have to look at the runners or evaluate the situation--coach says throw to 3rd, so he comes up throwing to 3rd. Sounds like fun, huh?

Like I said before, in a nutshell it comes down to who does the thinking in a race--the riders or the DS. Personally, I prefer to see the riders have to think for themselves.


Okay, let's talk about baseball. Your examples are ludicrous. The DS isn't telling the guys to turn the pedals or steer left and right. They're talking strategy.

What in cycling replaces the ability for the coach to talk to his players between every half inning to discuss strategy? What replaces the hand signals from the dugout to the pitcher, through the catcher, on how to pitch to a certain batter? What replaces the walk to the mound to discuss strategy?

Cycling is a TEAM sport. ALL team sports allow coaches to interact with their players during a game to strategize. If these were individual racers, then that's different. Imagine a football game where the players called it all themselves, or a hockey game where the players called out the line changes.

Sports evolve, it really is allright.
 
Coach Hawk said:
Quantifiable how? I'm still waiting for a single example of a rider injury in the 100 years of cycling that pre-dates radios that could have been prevented by radio connection to the team car. Otherwise, it's a solution looking for a problem.

And just to clarify, I am NOT against having an earpiece to listen in on official race radio for actual safety issues. I'm just against having a tet-a-tet with the DS in the middle of the race.

The riders don't have to justify anything. They grew up racing without radios. Now they are Pros and they have them. They are not willing to go back in time and they should not have to. What convenience of technology are you willing to give up in your work place? Better yet... which convenience would you like for me to pick for you to give up?

As to the tet-a-tet with the DS... I have ridden shot gun with a DS at the Giro, with his team in the Maglia Rosa. Believe me, this ain't Star Wars. Communication is far from perfect and not convenient as we are being lead to believe. Racers still act on their own (ask Alberto) and the race is still played out on the road. By far, the best and most thorough communication is direct with the racers from the car window, and that is absolutely some of the most dangerous sh!t I have ever seen.

Let them have their radios, and stop all the silly conjecture about how hurts the sport. How many successful breaks have their been in this years tour... with radios???
 
Juan Speeder said:
The vast majority of riders have ridden pro with radios since day one.

To ask them to do what the previous generation did, in one day, is to ask the ridiculous.

Radios, helmets, carbon wheels, etc. They're all here to stay.

If you want a bit of yesteryear, try curling. They never change anything.

You obviously haven't seen the latest top secret brooms we have here in Canada...just look at the bristles on this one...

09+WomenofCurling+cover_sm.jpg
 
Mar 14, 2009
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VeloFidelis said:
Congratulations to the to the Teams and Riders of the 2009 Tour de France, for standing up like men and using their collective power and solidarity in refusing to have the conditions of their work environment unduly compromised by the arbitrary and nostalgic rational of the UCI. I particularly appreciate that they have made their point in a unified action that is unmistakable in it's message: "Don't F@ck with Us!"
they didn't stand up for anything... they raced just how they did in the old days without radios... what would be race more interesting to watch would be de Ronde or Roubaix sans radios
 
Futuroscope said:
bunch of whiners. the radios should be banned,it would make the races more interesting.

Actually we're the whiners... you and I. The Pros actually do something that has possible physical consequences. We sit on our a$$es and spout opinions about stuff that we could never achieve, and how to do it better.

I think you're right though. We're the fans Damn it!! We should be able to tell them what to do. Especially with what it costs to go see a race... oh wait a minute... that's NASCAR.
 
A

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Futuroscope said:
bunch of whiners. the radios should be banned,it would make the races more interesting.

Today's stage was certainly thrilling :rolleyes:
 
May 12, 2009
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Seems to me RvV and PR have been plenty interesting even with radios. Not as if either has come down to a bunch sprint anytime recently.

As for examples of accidents, well, I remember Jesper Skibby basically getting run over by a DS car in the RvV. Or Davis Phinney going through the rear windshield of one. Not that either case is absolutely down to radios, but I can't see how having DS cars in amonst the riders more is anything but less safe. You really want to go back to the days of Saiz leaning out the window screaming Venga, Venga?
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Hearding Cats

VeloFidelis said:
Congratulations to the to the Teams and Riders of the 2009 Tour de France, for standing up like men and using their collective power and solidarity in refusing to have the conditions of their work environment unduly compromised by the arbitrary and nostalgic rational of the UCI. I particularly appreciate that they have made their point in a unified action that is unmistakable in it's message: "Don't F@ck with Us!"

They are the ones who make the competition what it will be... they are the competitors. They are the ones working theirs asses off and risking life and limb to provide a spectacle for us fans to enjoy. It was good of them to remind us of that. If they perceive this technology to be an asset to them in their workplace then they should have the benefit of using it.

No one is asking any of us to give up internet access and cell phones in favor of type writers and rotary dial phones because of some idiotic idea that it will magically return the work place back to some unrealistic and preconceived notion of a better time. It is not our place to apply subjective interpretation as to what will make racing more entertaining.

Thank you gentlemen of the Peloton for reminding us all that the rule of unintended consequences works both ways. And congratulation for finding the balls to deliver the message in unison.

Well they almost had the balls but didn't 6 teams stay out of the argument? I don't like to see the rules force constant nostalgia on the race. Why not just perscribe the drama? Riders open an envelope every morning with a new script they must follow just like wrestling. Why can't the rulemakers just let the riders determine the nature of todays stage instead of the organizer dreaming of the olden days.
 
Jul 9, 2009
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VeloFidelis said:
I would expect someone with your finely honed grammatical skills and syntax to have a well crafted opinion about that, but really... what do your NASCAR ticket cost?

im not american so i don't watch NASCAR.

we can have this discussion in french, spanish or italian if you want? let's see if my opinion changes?
 
Jun 23, 2009
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I admire the organisers for trying to do something a bit different. Shame they did it on the most boring stage of the tour so far. When you have such a crap route you have to try and do something.

What the heck is the rider protest being referenced in the original post? They only rode 38kph? Why didn`t the break survive if that is some kind of snail pace as was tried to be portrayed?
 
Jul 7, 2009
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It has been said several times over the years that the use of radios takes away the need or skill of the riders to read the race situation and take advantage of other rider’s mistakes. I lost one race (very low standard club event) by not knowing or seeing that one rider had made an early break and so instead of coming home with a win in front of the pack I was actually 2nd. The same situation could arise with the pros and perhaps there would be more chasing down of breaks if the other riders were not being told by the DS that the riders 'up the road' were not affecting the GC situation. Like all discussions there are good arguments for either option but I don't think the safety aspect the teams are using is being completely truthful for their reasons to oppose the banning of radios.
 

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